How should christians treat the saved homosexual?

[Zaac]

I do not believe that identifying yourself as Protestant or Catholic means that they name the name of Jesus Christ. I know people who identify as Catholic who haven't set foot in the church since their first communion. I know MANY who attend church who don't even believe in God. I do not think that we can say that 70% of those getting abortions are true Christians. I'd guess the number would be significantly lower than that.

I'm not saying that it does. But neither does identifying yourself as being against an issue mean that you name the name of Jesus.

We can think what we want. But the statistics show that these women are saying they are Christians and members of Churches that are anti-abortion.

 

[Revmitchell]

I'm not saying that it does. But neither does identifying yourself as being against an issue mean that you name the name of Jesus.

We can think what we want. But the statistics show that these women are saying they are Christians and members of Churches that are anti-abortion.

So these women say they are anti-abortion and then have one? I think you and some others are conflating things. And most of those people most likely do not go to church on a regular basis. That being the case the stats are in error.

 

[Matt22:37-39]

Holiness is beautiful; legalism is binding; holiness brings life; legalism brings death. They are as different as night and day, and yet at first glance, they can seem similar, because they both stand against sinful behavior and call for holy living. How can we distinguish between the two? Let me first present some thoughts on holiness before defining legalism and its dangers.

According to Samuel Logan Brengle, holiness is “pure love.” According to Samuel Lucas, “The essence of true holiness consists in conformity to the nature and will of God.” Stated another way, holiness is becoming like Jesus in thought, word, and deed, in heart, mind, and conduct. Holiness is something beautiful and wonderful!

God is holy, and so His very being reflects the perfection of righteousness and goodness and purity and wholesomeness and compassion and mercy and justice. As expressed by Ralph Finlayson, “The sum of all God’s attributes, the outshining of all that God is, is holiness” – and we are called to emulate that holiness. As is it written in 1 Pet 1:15 (quoting Lev 19:2), “But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; for it is written: ‘Be holy, because I am holy.’”

To be holy is to be separated from sin and to be separated to God, which means to be separated from that which is bad and destructive and evil and unclean and polluting and to be separated to that which is like the Lord. Sin is spiritual poison; holiness is spiritual health. As William Jenkyn explained, “There is nothing destroyed by sanctification but that which would destroy us.” In short, everything holy is good; nothing unholy is good. Everything unholy is bad; nothing holy is bad.

And yet there’s more: Holiness is our goal, our destiny, our portion. It expresses the very essence of the nature and character of God and describes the highest level of spirituality attainable by man. Listen to the testimony of the Word:

“For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight” (Eph 1:4). “Husbands, love your wives, just as Messiah loved the congregation [or, church] and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant congregation [or, church], without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless” (Eph 5:25-27).

That’s why Joseph Caryl could say, “Perfect holiness is the aim of the saints on earth, and it is the reward of the saints in heaven.” Or, as expressed by John Whitlock, “. . . the Christian’s . . . way is holiness, his end happiness.” Oswald Chambers understood this too, stating that “God has one destined end for mankind – holiness! His one aim is the production of saints. God is not an eternal blessing-machine for men. He did not come to save men out of pity. He came to save men because He had created them to be holy.”

William Gurnall was therefore entirely right when he wrote, “Say not that thou hast royal blood in thy veins, and art born of God, except thou canst prove thy pedigree by daring to be holy.” (You might want to stop for a moment and read that again. What a godly challenge!)

Why then do many believers resist holiness? One major reason is that many of them have been hurt by legalism, and so they immediately associate holiness with legalism.

What then is legalism? Legalism is rules without relationship, emphasizing standards more than the Savior and laws more than love. It is a system based on fear and characterized by joyless judgmentalism, producing futility instead of freedom.

To an unsaved person the legalist preaches justification by works, saying, “You’re a wicked sinner and you need to get rid of all your filthy habits if you want the Lord to accept you.” There is no grace in this message, no exalting of the life-changing, sin-cleansing power of the blood of Jesus, no clear proclamation of mercy.

The declaration of God’s love expressed through the cross is muffled – if it is even heard at all. Consequently, the proof of the new birth is seen almost entirely in what someone no longer does, and this continues to be the pattern for believers within the church: They are judged almost entirely by a few external standards (which, in many cases, are not even expressly mentioned in the Word) and they are monitored by conformity to the particular group’s code of conduct. And the result is external conformity rather than inward transformation – and that means either self-righteousness of self-condemnation (or both!).

Of course, it is absolutely true that God has very high standards, and for anyone honestly reading the Word, there can be no doubt that He calls us to live by very high standards – in our thoughts, words, and deeds; in our attitudes; in our sexuality; in our families; in our relationships; and much, much more. Passages like this are common in the New Testament:

“Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children. And walk in love, as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God. But sexual immorality and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints. Let there be no filthiness nor foolish talk nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving. For you may be sure of this, that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience” (Eph 5:1-6).

Tragically, legalists, despite their best intentions, get things tragically wrong. First, they try to change a person from the outside in (whereas God deals with us from the inside out); second, they fail to present a balanced picture of the Lord, putting too little stress on His mercy and too much emphasis on His wrath; third, they do not point the struggling sinner (or believer) to the Lord’s supernatural empowerment, making holiness a matter of human effort alone; and fourth, they add laws, standards, commandments, customs, and traditions that are not found in the Word, making those things even more important than the biblical commandments themselves.

In contrast, true, scriptural holiness begins with the heart and flows from an encounter with God and His Word. It calls for repentance in response to the Lord’s gracious offer of salvation and it offers a way to be holy – the blood of Jesus and the Spirit of God. Biblical holiness is free, although it requires discipline and perseverance. For the legalist, nothing is free. Everything must be earned! That’s why legalism leads to bondage and holiness leads to liberty.

As Ralph Cudworth explained many years ago, “I do not mean by holiness the mere performance of outward duties of religion, coldly acted over, as a task; not our habitual prayings, hearings, fastings, multiplied one upon another (though these be all good, as subservient to a higher end); but I mean an inward soul and principle of divine life (Romans 8:1-5), that spiriteth all these.”

It is that inward spiritual principle that must be cultivated, the principle of intimacy with Jesus, the principle of being renewed in our minds by His Word and Spirit, the principle of being conformed to His image and character, hating what He hates and loving what He loves. As Dr. Kent Hughes expressed in his book Disciplines of a Godly Man, “There is a universe of difference between the motivations behind legalism and discipline. Legalism says, ‘I will do this thing to gain merit with God,’ while discipline says, “I will do this because I love God and want to please him.’ Legalism is man-centered; discipline is God-centered.”

 

[Matt22:37-39]

To quote Oswald Chambers again, “A bird flies persistently and easily because the air is its domain and its world. A legal Christian is one who is trying to live in a rarer world than is natural to him. Our Lord said, ‘If the Son shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed,’ i.e., free from the inside, born from above, lifted into another world where there is no strenuous effort to live in a world not natural to us, but where we can soar continually higher and higher because we are in the natural domain of spiritual life.”

Unfortunately, the moment you preach biblical holiness, many Christians put their hands over their ears and say, “That’s legalism! That’s condemnation! That’s manmade religion! That’s the dead letter of the law! You won’t put me in bondage! I won’t listen to stuff like that!” As Robert Brimstead observed, “The idea of living strictly by what the Bible says has been branded as legalism.”

And so, these Christians run from the dangerous clutches of legalism and fall into the deadly grasp of license, that self-deceived state of fleshly liberty, catering to their carnality rather than crucifying it. What a terrible error!

Whatever comes naturally to these “liberated” believers is accepted as normal (and “understood,” of course, by the Lord), while biblical commandments are brought down to the level of their own experience, and anything that brings any kind of spiritual pressure to bear on them is rejected as not being the easy yoke and light burden of Jesus. And when the Holy Spirit brings conviction on people like this, they rebuke the devil for trying to condemn them – ultimately at the expense of their own souls.

To quote Oswald Chambers yet again, “The only liberty a saint has is the liberty not to use his liberty. . . . Liberty means ability not to violate the law; license means personal insistence on doing what I like. . . . To be free from the law means that I am the living law of God, there is no independence of God in my make-up. License is rebellion against all law. If my heart does not become the centre of Divine love, it may become the center of diabolical license.”

What then is the antidote? Flee from legalism, stay far away from license, and run to holiness; reject humanly birthed, external religion, give no place to false teaching that excuses carnality, and instead embrace new covenant, heart transformation -- and in the power of the Spirit, supernaturally enabled by God’s grace, deal ruthlessly with sin in your life. That is the path to freedom!

Sin is so utterly awful that only the blood of Jesus could pay for it (1 Pet 1:16-19). We dare not trivialize sin in our lives.

In closing, let me bathe you with the truth of God’s liberating Word. (Yes, I know that this has been a long article, but I think you’ll agree that the subject is quite important – really, the difference between life and death.) Listen to the Word of the Lord!

“Do not let sin control the way you live; do not give in to sinful desires. Do not let any part of your body become an instrument of evil to serve sin. Instead, give yourselves completely to God, for you were dead, but now you have new life. So use your whole body as an instrument to do what is right for the glory of God” (Rom 6:12-13).

“Because we belong to the day, we must live decent lives for all to see. Don’t participate in the darkness of wild parties and drunkenness, or in sexual promiscuity and immoral living, or in quarreling and jealousy. Instead, clothe yourself with the presence of the Lord Jesus Christ. And don’t let yourself think about ways to indulge your evil desires” (Rom 13:13-14,).

“Because we have these promises [of being sons and daughters of God], dear friends, let us cleanse ourselves from everything that can defile our body or spirit. And let us work toward complete holiness because we fear God” (2 Cor 7:1,).

“For you remember what we taught you by the authority of the Lord Jesus. . . . God has called us to live holy lives, not impure lives. Therefore, anyone who refuses to live by these rules is not disobeying human teaching but is rejecting God, who gives his Holy Spirit to you” (1 Thes 4:2,).

“Who shall ascend the hill of the LORD? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false and does not swear deceitfully. He will receive blessing from the LORD and righteousness from the God of his salvation” (Ps 24:3-5,).

“Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God” (Matt 5:8).

“If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell” (Matt 5:29-30,)

“For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age, waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works” (Titus 2:11-14,).

“She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins” (Matt 1:21,).
What a wonderful Savior!

http://askdrbrown.org/ask-dr-brown/...the-difference-between-holiness-and-legalism-

 

[Revmitchell]

Definition:

Legalism- Everything I do not personally like.

 

[Zaac]

So these women say they are anti-abortion and then have one?

No one said that.

I think you and some others are conflating things. And most of those people most likely do not go to church on a regular basis. That being the case the stats are in error.

I think you're confused.:laugh:

 

[Yeshua1]

HOW SHOULD CHRISTIANS TREAT THE SAVED HOMOSEXUAL?
This has been an ongoing discussion on a "Christian" forum so my response was this...

Many on here feel a homosexual can NOT be saved if they still have sex with the same sex...not sure why a heterosexual gets away with having sex outside of marriage and committing adultery etc. but the homosexual doesn't...so this is what I have to say to those who don't get it.

The problem I think many are having is they are LOOKING at the outward rather than the inward..."Man looks at the outward appearance, but God looks at the heart"...1 Sam 16:7....We live in a FALLEN WORLD do you agree?

And since we live in a fallen world [filthy language snipped] people are born with all kind of physical and mental ailments....some are born with NO attraction to anyone (the act of sex comes after attraction) some people are born with both sexes, some are born legitimately feeling from a very early age like 2 that they were born in the wrong body, some are born attracted to the same sex...never once having an attraction to the opposite sex...and some are attracted to both sexes...and for most this is a TRUTH that is with them for life.

Now when a person gets saved no matter WHO they are, they will always have SOME SIN they have to deal with, that is just part of our sinful human nature that Paul says in Romans 7 that we struggle with...my sins/s and struggles may not be the same as yours or others, but never the less they are NO DIFFERENT IN GOD'S EYES...for to Him all sin is wrong and is why the SINLESS JESUS became SIN for us. 2 Cor 5:21

Now think about it...lets take any of our sins and compare them to the homosexual...now how many times are we FORGIVEN when we KEEP screwing up in our sin nature and hurt God? ALL THE TIME, Matt 18:22....cause the bibles says "all our sins are forgiven past, present and future...they were nailed on the cross" Romans 8:1-2 and more. We sin more often than we want to admit, let's not forget sins of OMISSION...so why are the Homosexual Christians EXCLUDED from having the same problem?...and no I am not condoning their sin or lifestyle, but what we need to understand is what the bible is talking about....we need to separate the NON Christians from the saved Christians and even go further to separate the MATURE Christian from the WEAK one. Romans 14....Look at it as a SCALE from 0.................100....we will put SATAN on the 0 end...and GOD at the 100 end.

0 being a NON BELIEVER HOMOSEXUAL....this person is condemned no matter what he does good or bad.

50 the middle would be the BELIEVER a saved person, could be a homosexual (meaning someone who only is attracted to the same sex)...not of his works but Christ work on the cross.

100 Being a homosexual Christian who is "sold out" for God and his walk is so close to God that he ONLY desires God's will and not his own....that in all he does he desires to love and honor and obey God...so he CHOOSES to not have sex with the same sex, much less sex outside of marriage at all!...for their husband and all is God.

This is God''s desire for ALL who know Him...no matter what sin we struggle with....to be on the 100 side of the scale.

So you will have homosexuals at all ends of the scale all depending on their WALK WITH GOD! and it isn't for me to say what that walk is, and whether they are saved or not, as we all have a RACE to run that is different than everyone else s. My race is not your race nor yours mine or ours others.

My job and your job is to HELP THAT HOMOSEXUAL no matter which side of the scale they are on to DRAW CLOSER TO GOD through love, accountability (within the church only) acceptance, respect, prayer, guidance etc...so His desires become theirs...this we should do for everyone no matter what sin they struggle with....that is what He wants for all us sinners.

Hope that helps...♥

Would say taht we need to treat a saved homosexual SAME way as any of us, as ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God!

Also, pray for/with them, encourage them, become a friend, not afraid to get close to them...

Would also say the person still HAS to receive the truth that jesus called them to be celebite in regards to sexual behaviour, unless they decide to marry a Christian girl and settle down!

even though they may come a time where its legal for gays to be married in sight of the state, NEVER legal and real in sight of God!

 

[Ternera]

Homosexualism is not a "bigger" sin than any other one, be it a premarital heterosexual intimacy, an adultery, or, say, stealing.
A person who repeatedly practices the same sinful behavior, not matter what it is, and tries to find excuses for it is not a saved person, pure and simple. Of course we all have inclination to a sinful behavior of some sort. We are imperfect people. But, if a person is actually saved, he or she will put a great effort to avoid it, not trying to justify it instead.
I was co-habitating before I became a Christian. Right after I accepted Jesus, I stopped it, and told my partner that we either get married or separate. It was not easy, but I felt that I could not be a Christian and practice something prohibited by the Bible at the same time. Not that I am trying to say I am great, I am just the same sinner as everyone else. I am just giving an account of how it feels to do something that is against the Bible when you are saved.

 

[Matt22:37-39]

Would say taht we need to treat a saved homosexual SAME way as any of us, as ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God!

Also, pray for/with them, encourage them, become a friend, not afraid to get close to them...

Would also say the person still HAS to receive the truth that jesus called them to be celebite in regards to sexual behaviour, unless they decide to marry a Christian girl and settle down!

even though they may come a time where its legal for gays to be married in sight of the state, NEVER legal and real in sight of God!

I agree...this isn't just about gay men it about women too.

 

[Matt22:37-39]

Homosexualism is not a "bigger" sin than any other one, be it a premarital heterosexual intimacy, an adultery, or, say, stealing.
A person who repeatedly practices the same sinful behavior, not matter what it is, and tries to find excuses for it is not a saved person, pure and simple. Of course we all have inclination to a sinful behavior of some sort. We are imperfect people. But, if a person is actually saved, he or she will put a great effort to avoid it, not trying to justify it instead.
I was co-habitating before I became a Christian. Right after I accepted Jesus, I stopped it, and told my partner that we either get married or separate. It was not easy, but I felt that I could not be a Christian and practice something prohibited by the Bible at the same time. Not that I am trying to say I am great, I am just the same sinner as everyone else. I am just giving an account of how it feels to do something that is against the Bible when you are saved.

:thumbsup:

 

[Yeshua1]

I agree...this isn't just about gay men it about women too.

just saying that there is coming a time where the Church MUST decide rather to go way of the world, or the lord, once homosexual marriage/lifestyles get fully sauctioned as being legit!

 

[Matt22:37-39]

No, I don't agree with same sex marriage and I wrote about that too...as that would REDEFINE marriage the way God established it to be.

What I am saying is that many when the hear the word homosexual or gay think of men only...there are actually more gay and bisexual women than there are men...probably because of men in their life....just saying.

 

[DFG]

Not sure if this has been posted but it is very simple. We are called to hat the sin and love the sinners. Now homosexuals getting married is an entirely different scenario. Doing anything but condemning marriage is endorsing sin.
Now back to the person and hate the sin and love the sinners we have to realize the lost will act lost. No matter if they are a drinker, pot smoker, homosexual etc. they are lost and will act that way.

 

[righteousdude2]

You blame me....I say You are the problem...

Like I said I NEVER ONCE called out my boys sins after they left my home....I did my job raising them, they know right from wrong and it is my job to LOVE them not CONDEMN them!...that is why people came to Christ cause of His love...I pray for him but not as you think...I pray his heart will soften towards his daughter and he loves her and not judges her and her partner....I especially pray for her eyes to be open and she find love some where other than the gay community.....but I doubt it at this point as I feel the damage has already been done...I've seen it too many times

You blame me for my daughter....I say you are a wishy-washy mother and a poor example of a parent. If you loved them, regardless of their age or independence, you would be leading them, not standing off to the said telling them, you love them while they continue to wallow in sin.

I am a believer in tough love. You are a believer in tolerance [live and let live]. Who is right? Well, as a parent I believe it is better not to spare the rod:

Read on, and debunk, debate, and deflect the following.:

New International Version (©2011)
Whoever spares the rod hates their children, but the one who loves their children is careful to discipline them.

New Living Translation (©2007)
Those who spare the rod of discipline hate their children. Those who love their children care enough to discipline them.

English Standard Version (©2001)
Whoever spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is diligent to discipline him.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
He who withholds his rod hates his son, But he who loves him disciplines him diligently.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.

I do not pretend to know or have all the answers in raising children, but this; I can be sure of. God lent me that young impressionable life, and it is my job to do my very best to make sure she grows up a good citizens; honoring their parents and loving the Lord.

My daughter knows I love her. However, she also knows that I believe the Word of God is our yard stick, and she knows that she is a few yards short of measuring up to GOD's standards, not mine. She knows, like, God, I love her, but I can't overlook her sin!
I would never stand along the sidelines and root her on in his sin, because that would be just wrong. There is something to the verse about the blood of others being on our hands, and I am not going to have her blood on my hands as I have done everything possible to lovingly insruct her as to her potential in Jesus, and how she is presently not living up to the potential.

I leave you with two powerful verses of warning others of the coming calamity:

Ezekiel 33:1-11, (NASB) - The Watchman’s Duty, And the word of the Lord came to me, saying, “Son of man, speak to the sons of your people and say to them, ‘If I bring a sword upon a land, and the people of the land take one man from among them and make him their watchman, and he sees the sword coming upon the land and blows on the trumpet and warns the people, then he who hears the sound of the trumpet and does not take warning, and a sword comes and takes him away, his blood will be on his own head. He heard the sound of the trumpet but did not take warning; his blood will be on himself. But had he taken warning, he would have delivered his life. But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet and the people are not warned, and a sword comes and takes a person from them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood I will require from the watchman’s hand.’"

Matt22, you are the only watchman you sons will ever have. If you fail to sound the alarm, their blood will be upon your defiled hands! :tear::tear::tear: I truly feel sorry for your kids. You know the truth, and you choose to stand by and be a loving, enabler.

 

[righteousdude2]

Don't....

Well for one I agree about the church dealing with known sin but the sad fact is at least all the big churches I have been in and visited or people I know who attend them...they do NOT do anything!...money, numbers, popularity, programs are more important. Might want to check out the statics for yourself.

And for your info if a married couple (straight) wants to engage in any and I mean any sexual mutual act, then who is to say it is wrong?...it is when one partner pushes their desires unto their partner against their will...you may not agree with a certain act for you and your partner, but not everyone feels the same way. Might want to read the book of Song Of Solomon...and the sexual acts mentioned in there....you might be surprised to say the least.

placate me...I've read all the Bible, and am quite aware of the Song of Solomon. From what I am reading, it is you who needs to read more tha that one book. If you did, you'd see the errors in the things you are spewing from your keyboard. If you continue to spew these false, half-wit teaching, you will be like the lukewarm believer that He will spew from His mouth!

I do not appreciate someone treating me like I do not know what I am talking about. I certainly don't appreciate your passive-aggressive approach in responding to me. AND, I certainly don't welcome your ingratiating tones. In fact, let me tell you, that I have begun to see through your spirit and what I see is an angry, trolling, vindictive personality who is only trying to cause a ripple in the calm waters by tossing stones across the surface.

Well, you've made your splash; you've roused up the big fish, and you've seen the error in your theology. Maybe it's time to move on or get with the program, and show the cards you've been tightly holding since you started this game, way back when!

 

[Matt22:37-39]

You blame me for my daughter....I say you are a wishy-washy mother and a poor example of a parent. If you loved them, regardless of their age or independence, you would be leading them, not standing off to the said telling them, you love them while they continue to wallow in sin.

I am a believer in tough love. You are a believer in tolerance [live and let live]. Who is right? Well, as a parent I believe it is better not to spare the rod:[/B]

WOW, you are so wrong on so many levels!

1) I raised my boys in a godly home, they went to church regularly with us, and private Christan school from day one preschool. I disciplined my kids in love, never in anger and I instructed them in the Lord and they know right from wrong and basically they are now GREAT YOUNG MEN.... both are very good looking and are well rounded and really smart (140's or more IQ both of them, Aaron skipped 4th grade)...Aaron is going to be 21 is working as a security guard and going to a nice college studying to go into some kind of law enforcement (he is a little me) and he is extremely responsible and he has a heart for God always has...he is saved and I'm not sure if has ever been with anyone sexually?... last I knew he had a nice Christan girlfriend for year till she went to college who he said wanted to remain pure. For the last few years since her, he has been too busy to really date.

I taught my boys to be gentlemen.They were instructed to OPEN MY DOOR around the age of 10, and they still do that to this day and for other women and men as well...they were taught good work ethics, and how to have manners, and above all else we had FUN and enjoyed each others company...my ex was like a big kid so he had fun too...I enjoyed my boys growing up, no real hard years (just with my ex when he retired, he was older) so why would I stop all that now over their LIFE, their RACE, their STRUGGLES and TRIALS and TEMPTATIONS that the bible says we all got through saved or not?...I'm not God...God is God, so I let Him have that job, cause all He told me to do and that is for everyone was to LOVE and yes, out of love comes tough love, I get that, but again not in the way you think...in fact you just inspired me to write about "TOUGH LOVE"...I was going to work on "KEEPING SHORT ACCOUNTS"...tomorrow...who knows maybe I can do both?


Anyway, the older, Nate, will be 27 and he spent 6 years in the air force traveling and living in different countries overseas and is now going to school for solar engineering...while his wonderful wife is still in the air force they live so far from me FL and I have only SEEN HIM 7 times in seven years due to his traveling, and he may stay in FL 3 more years!...(God did let us go to Italy when he was there, when I sold a horse for $60,000) so why would I do anything stupid to distance him further???

He and his wife have been together 2 years and he says they NEVER FIGHT OR ARGUE they have so much in common, and are so much alike and are so cute together, they have a great relationship...BTW, my boys are both very good looking and could have their choice of any women, yet they choose CLASS, that is what I have seen so far. And they are quiet popular...I use to joke and tell people when they commented about them.."yep I'm a good producer"..2 different fathers, so do take a lot of the credit...lol.... My older I know wasn't into fooling around, he has had 3 long term relationships, with really nice girls, who just ADORE him...his wife's mom told me on the phone, how awesome her daughter said Nate was...His wife has told me several times, how awesome he is an what a gentleman he is...and i can;t tell you how many others roommates and all say the same thing. She THANKED ME SO MUCH FOR MY SON and told me I did a GREAT JOB he is so awesome...and she is right he is!..not sure he is saved, although I cannot talk him out of his salvation. BTW, my boys are both great with money and they also have compassion for others...Nate is VERY Thoughtful always has been!....He and his wife recently took in her heroin addicted brother and helped him get clean for a few months then he went to live with his grandma....and i've seen with my own eyes my younger ones FEED THE HOMELESS and give people rides just I did when they were growing up and I still do....So if my boys have sex (not like I can say I didn't before and after my marriage.) and they drink a few beers or whatever...who am I TO RUIN A GREAT RELATIONSHIP I HAVE WITH THEM?...that would be so stupid of me...my love and support is exactly what they need and I need them as well.

IDK, to me INTEGRITY and SOUND CHARACTER and raising a CONTRIBUTING MEMBER OF SOCIETY is more important, than ones sin/s that 90% of all people are going to do anyway...God is bigger than my sin or anyone else.

Like I said, tough love isn't even close to what you think it is...I'd be happy to give you a copy of my book when I get it done on "What God Desires Of A Healthy Church"....because the PROBLEM with most churches today is they are OFF BALANCE...too LEGALISTIC or too LIBERAL....

Give me a break!

 

[Oldtimer]

Thread Title: How should christians treat the saved homosexual?

Sorry OLDTIMER you are wrong, about my divorce...I have issues with the church not doing it's job....it is too legalistic or too liberal.

I have an issue with HYPOCRISY...and the church picking and choosing which parts of the bible it obeys and which parts it does not.

The bottom line is the homosexual is not different than anyone else who sins in the Church and the church is to TREAT that person gay or lesbian the way it would anyone else who blatantly sins....like divorce, fornication, etc.

Nice try though...

as far as RD daughter I stand firm on what I said I've talked to too many people raised in legalistic "christian" homes and the fact that LOVE wasn't shown to them but the LAW...is why many have strayed the way they have...especially the gays.


Like I said I NEVER ONCE called out my boys sins after they left my home....I did my job raising them, they know right from wrong and it is my job to LOVE them not CONDEMN them!...that is why people came to Christ cause of His love...I pray for him but not as you think...I pray his heart will soften towards his daughter and he loves her and not judges her and her partner....I especially pray for her eyes to be open and she find love some where other than the gay community.....but I doubt it at this point as I feel the damage has already been done...I've seen it too many times

You also said in reply to RD:

WOW, you are so wrong on so many levels!

(snipped all the "I" stuff and glowing praise.....)

Give me a break!

Please let me repeat:

Matthew 7 KJB
1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

IMO, your purpose is now plain. You came here to collect material for a book you are writing to JUDGE the church and anyone who doesn't agree with you. How many of us will you quote in your book? How many of us will you condem in your book, while writing glowing praise about the good job you did raising your sons?


:null:

 

[annsni]

WOW, you are so wrong on so many levels!

1) I raised my boys in a godly home, they went to church regularly with us, and private Christan school from day one preschool. I disciplined my kids in love, never in anger and I instructed them in the Lord and they know right from wrong and basically they are now GREAT YOUNG MEN.... both are very good looking and are well rounded and really smart (140's or more IQ both of them, Aaron skipped 4th grade)...Aaron is going to be 21 is working as a security guard and going to a nice college studying to go into some kind of law enforcement (he is a little me) and he is extremely responsible and he has a heart for God always has...he is saved and I'm not sure if has ever been with anyone sexually?... last I knew he had a nice Christan girlfriend for year till she went to college who he said wanted to remain pure. For the last few years since her, he has been too busy to really date.

I taught my boys to be gentlemen.They were instructed to OPEN MY DOOR around the age of 10, and they still do that to this day and for other women and men as well...they were taught good work ethics, and how to have manners, and above all else we had FUN and enjoyed each others company...my ex was like a big kid so he had fun too...I enjoyed my boys growing up, no real hard years (just with my ex when he retired, he was older) so why would I stop all that now over their LIFE, their RACE, their STRUGGLES and TRIALS and TEMPTATIONS that the bible says we all got through saved or not?...I'm not God...God is God, so I let Him have that job, cause all He told me to do and that is for everyone was to LOVE and yes, out of love comes tough love, I get that, but again not in the way you think...in fact you just inspired me to write about "TOUGH LOVE"...I was going to work on "KEEPING SHORT ACCOUNTS"...tomorrow...who knows maybe I can do both?


Anyway, the older, Nate, will be 27 and he spent 6 years in the air force traveling and living in different countries overseas and is now going to school for solar engineering...while his wonderful wife is still in the air force they live so far from me FL and I have only SEEN HIM 7 times in seven years due to his traveling, and he may stay in FL 3 more years!...(God did let us go to Italy when he was there, when I sold a horse for $60,000) so why would I do anything stupid to distance him further???

He and his wife have been together 2 years and he says they NEVER FIGHT OR ARGUE they have so much in common, and are so much alike and are so cute together, they have a great relationship...BTW, my boys are both very good looking and could have their choice of any women, yet they choose CLASS, that is what I have seen so far. And they are quiet popular...I use to joke and tell people when they commented about them.."yep I'm a good producer"..2 different fathers, so do take a lot of the credit...lol.... My older I know wasn't into fooling around, he has had 3 long term relationships, with really nice girls, who just ADORE him...his wife's mom told me on the phone, how awesome her daughter said Nate was...His wife has told me several times, how awesome he is an what a gentleman he is...and i can;t tell you how many others roommates and all say the same thing. She THANKED ME SO MUCH FOR MY SON and told me I did a GREAT JOB he is so awesome...and she is right he is!..not sure he is saved, although I cannot talk him out of his salvation. BTW, my boys are both great with money and they also have compassion for others...Nate is VERY Thoughtful always has been!....He and his wife recently took in her heroin addicted brother and helped him get clean for a few months then he went to live with his grandma....and i've seen with my own eyes my younger ones FEED THE HOMELESS and give people rides just I did when they were growing up and I still do....So if my boys have sex (not like I can say I didn't before and after my marriage.) and they drink a few beers or whatever...who am I TO RUIN A GREAT RELATIONSHIP I HAVE WITH THEM?...that would be so stupid of me...my love and support is exactly what they need and I need them as well.

IDK, to me INTEGRITY and SOUND CHARACTER and raising a CONTRIBUTING MEMBER OF SOCIETY is more important, than ones sin/s that 90% of all people are going to do anyway...God is bigger than my sin or anyone else.

Like I said, tough love isn't even close to what you think it is...I'd be happy to give you a copy of my book when I get it done on "What God Desires Of A Healthy Church"....because the PROBLEM with most churches today is they are OFF BALANCE...too LEGALISTIC or too LIBERAL....

Give me a break!

So your children are contributing members of society but you don't know if one is actually a child of God and that doesn't seem to matter? It's all about how they turned out for the world rather than for God?

 

[Zaac]

Thread Title: How should christians treat the saved homosexual?

:thumbsup:

Let's please keep to the thread title.

 

[Revmitchell]

When a person or church is more worried about worldly things than obtaining the holiness of God through the intentional sanctification process of submitting The the Holy Ghost then their is a problem. Holiness first then the other issues are not issues.

But in today's church we spend more time worrying about spiritual freedom and legalism than we do submission and holiness.