How To Get To Heaven When You Die

[BobRyan]

[/COLOR]Dan 2, 7, 8 all describe the same scenario where the 2nd coming happens sometime after the break up of the pagan Roman empire and the time of the 1260 years of the dark ages (as Daniel 7 points out).

Christ's kingdom destroys all others at His coming - just as Dan 2 predicts.

I don't see how this helps your case.






Here again we have a future prophecy that easily fits into the future for the church as Paul describes it in Romans 9.





1. You have a future in Rev 21 where God rules over all mankind on earth - that is certain in all models.

2. and you have a "possible future" being described by OT prophets where Israel does not reject the Messiah and becomes a great kingdom on earth from which God's Law goes out - a future that the Jews rejected.


The first two scenarios are common in all models.

3. You have God ruling over a still-wicked still-rebellious mankind during the 1000 years that some have tried to put into this picture - but I think it is impossible to carve out a space for that given what we know about the 2nd coming.

[FONT=&quot]If I understand your view of the millennium and the Jews - it is based on the following – [/FONT]

1. [FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]The term “last days “ used in the O.T. in some cases[/FONT]
2. [FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Prophetic claims about the future written by prophets before the return of Israel from Babylon and before the coming of the Messiah.[/FONT]
3. [FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Before Daniel 9’s 490 year timeline is fulfilled – for the Jews.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Here are some Bible details that appear to present a challenge to that idea.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

• [FONT=&quot]Romans 9 – The Church is included in spiritual Israel – and all the failed promises for Israel now are to be fulfilled in the church. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]2. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]“He is not a Jew that is one outwardly – “ Romans 2[/FONT]

• [FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Rev 21-22 the Church does inherit the world/ the Earth [/FONT]

• [FONT=&quot]4. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Rev 20:1-5 the saints reign with Christ regarding the earth, fallen mankind, fallen angels (1 Cor 6) –both Jew and Gentile.[/FONT]

• [FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]The days from the Time of Christ onward - are included in the term “Last Days” at the time of Christ and just afterwards.[/FONT]

• [FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]The 490 year Messianic timeline of Dan 9 is already fulfilled. “490 years have been decreed for your people to finish transgression and bring in everlasting righteousness”[/FONT]

• [FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]The fall of Israel in Matt 23 and 1Thess 2 is said to be complete.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Last Days – in the NT – first century[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Acts 2:17[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]‘And it shall be in the last days,’ God says, ‘That I will pour forth of My Spirit on all mankind; And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, And your young men shall see visions, And your old men shall dream dreams;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Hebrews 1:2[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]in these last days[/FONT][FONT=&quot] has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“Last Days” Extends all the way to the 2nd coming[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2 Timothy 3:1[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2 Peter 3:3[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][ The Coming Day of the Lord ] Know [/FONT][FONT=&quot]this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts,[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

 

[DHK]

Bob, notice the title of this thread:
How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Please don't derail the thread into one on eschatology.

 

[Yeshua1]

Bob, notice the title of this thread:
How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Please don't derail the thread into one on eschatology.

He has to tie it into Eshatology though, as being SDA, they see themselves as the "true remant church". kept through the present millinual time!

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

:saint::tear:

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

:saint::tear:

raying: Please take this time to read this first post if you haven't yet and vote in the poll.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

deleted.....

Why is that?

 

[BobRyan]

3. If you will Admit to Jesus Christ that you are a sinner and in need of a Savior, Believe in your heart that He died on the cross and rose from the dead and Accept Him as your Lord and Savior and you will be forgiven and taken to heaven to be with Him when you die.

Joh 1:12 “But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name”

Ro 10:9,10 "that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.."

You cannot get to heaven by being a good person, going to church, baptism or any other way other than by turning to Jesus, believing in your heart that He died on the cross and rose from the dead for your sins and placing your trust in Him. While these are good things to do, some people believe that they will get to heaven if they do these things, but the bible says that there is only one way to heaven and that is through receiving what Jesus Christ did on the cross for you.

Will you do that today? If you will, you can be 100% sure that you will go to heaven when you die.

DO YOU BELIEVE THAT JESUS CHRIST DIED ON THE CROSS AND ROSE FROM THE DEAD FOR YOUR SINS?

ARE YOU WILLING TO TURN TO JESUS CHRIST FOR SALVATION?

4. If you are willing to accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior and believe it with all of your heart, you could pray something like this to God from your heart:

"Dear Lord Jesus, I believe that You died on the Cross and Rose from the dead for my sins. I ask you to come into my heart and forgive me for my sins, save me, take me to be with You when I die. I now receive You as my Lord and Savior. Thank You for saving me. In Jesus holy name, Amen."

If you have placed your faith in Jesus Christ and meant it with all of your heart, you are now a child of God and will go to heaven.

Now that you are on your way to heaven, you should attend a bible believing church and follow in baptism.

Sounds Arminian to me ...

Ro 10:9,10 "that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.."


nice!

But of course James 2 then gets into real belief - vs fake belief.

 

[Getting it Right]

Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx

f you will Admit to Jesus Christ that you are a sinner and in need of a Savior, Believe in your heart that He died on the cross and rose from the dead and Accept Him as your Lord and Savior and you will be forgiven and taken to heaven to be with Him when you die.dead, you will be saved.."

Will you do that today? If you will, you can be 100% sure that you will go to heaven when you die.

4. If you are willing to accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior and believe it with all of your heart, you could pray something like this to God from your heart:

"Dear Lord Jesus, I believe that You died on the Cross and Rose from the dead for my sins. I ask you to come into my heart and forgive me for my sins, save me, take me to be with You when I die. I now receive You as my Lord and Savior. Thank You for saving me. In Jesus holy name, Amen."

:godisgood:Amen and Amen.:jesus:

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

:godisgood:Amen and Amen.:jesus:

Wow. Thanks for the support. Usually, I'm getting ripped to shreds so this is a nice rare treat.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

:applause::applause::applause::thumbsup:

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

Please take the time to read this first post if you haven't yet.

 

[TrevorL]

dual post due to computer malfunction

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings xfrodobagginsx,

Please take the time to read this first post if you haven't yet.

Despite your continual refreshing of this thread with an appeal to vote on your OP, there has not been much activity on the numbers that have voted. The tally seemed to reach Yes – 1, No – 0, I already accepted Jesus Christ before – 8, Other – 1 by the end of December 2014 and stubbornly stayed there all of January 2015. I noticed recently that this has now changed, but the only difference is that "Other" is now 2.

As I was the original "other", I would encourage “others” to give their reasons for not accepting the OP and also to consider some of the Posts that I have given to explain why I could not accept the OP. I do not believe that heaven is our destiny, neither do I accept that the method of salvation is as described in the OP. Please refer to my Posts for an explanation of the need to believe the Gospel of the Kingdom and the Name and the need to respond in baptism.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

Greetings xfrodobagginsx,

Despite your continual refreshing of this thread with an appeal to vote on your OP, there has not been much activity on the numbers that have voted. The tally seemed to reach Yes – 1, No – 0, I already accepted Jesus Christ before – 8, Other – 1 by the end of December 2014 and stubbornly stayed there all of January 2015. I noticed recently that this has now changed, but the only difference is that "Other" is now 2.

As I was the original "other", I would encourage “others” to give their reasons for not accepting the OP and also to consider some of the Posts that I have given to explain why I could not accept the OP. I do not believe that heaven is our destiny, neither do I accept that the method of salvation is as described in the OP. Please refer to my Posts for an explanation of the need to believe the Gospel of the Kingdom and the Name and the need to respond in baptism.

Kind regards
Trevor

We are not under the Gospel of the Kindom, We are under Paul's Gospel of Grace. That's where you err. I suspect that you are either a Jehovah's Witness or a Morman or WWCG. All are cults and preach a false gospel. They don't believe that Jesus Christ is God in the flesh as the Bible clearly says.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again xfrodobagginsx,

We are not under the Gospel of the Kindom, We are under Paul's Gospel of Grace. That's where you err.

Philip and Paul both preached the Gospel of Christ and this gospel contains the things concerning the Kingdom of God and the Name of Jesus Christ.
Acts 8:5 (KJV): 5 Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them. 12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Acts 28:25-31 (KJV): 25 And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Spirit by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers, 26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive: 27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. 28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it. 29 And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.
30 And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him, 31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.

I suspect that you are either a Jehovah's Witness or a Morman or WWCG. All are cults and preach a false gospel. They don't believe that Jesus Christ is God in the flesh as the Bible clearly says.

I certainly do not agree with the Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons or WWCG. I believe that there is One God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
Luke 1:35 (KJV): And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
John 1:14 (KJV): And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John 20:30-31 (KJV): 30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
Romans 1:1-5 (KJV): 1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, 2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) 3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: 5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

This will explain it to you.

The Gospel of Grace vs. Israel's Kingdom Gospel:


http://www.matthewmcgee.org/2gospels.html

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again xfrodobagginsx,

We are not under the Gospel of the Kindom, We are under Paul's Gospel of Grace. That's where you err.

This will explain it to you.
The Gospel of Grace vs. Israel's Kingdom Gospel:

I appreciate your response and the link to the article on “Israel's Kingdom Gospel and Our Grace Gospel” by Matthew McGee. My first browsing of this article gives the impression that the author believes in various “Dispensations” and claims for example that the gospel preached by Peter was different to the gospel preached by Paul. Perhaps it would be of benefit to consider some of his statements:

4. Before our Lord Jesus Christ revealed it to Paul, the other apostles did not know that Jesus Christ's crucifixion was the sacrifice for our sins. In the book of Acts, Peter never mentions sacrifice, or propitiation, or the blood of Jesus Christ. He never associates Christ's death with remission of sins.

The following are a few of the statements of Peter before Paul came on the scene, and they all speak of salvation in Jesus as a result of his death and resurrection, resulting in the forgiveness of sins:
Acts 2:36-38 (KJV): 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. 37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 3:18-21 (KJV): 18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled. 19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
Acts 4:9-12 (KJV): 9 If we this day be examined of the good deed done to the impotent man, by what means he is made whole; 10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. 11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. 12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

5. Paul was the apostle of the Gentiles (Acts 9:15 and Romans 11:13). Jesus Christ and the apostles prior to Paul preached only to the people of Israel, with just a few exceptions (Matthew 10:5-6, Matthew 15:24, John 12:20-24, Acts 2:5, 2:36, 3:12, and 11:19).

This seems to ignore that Peter was specially chosen to preach the Gospel to Cornelius, and Philip was selected to preach to the Ethiopian Eunuch, and both of these were Gentiles, and both of these incidents occurred before Paul was converted.

6. After Jesus Christ ascended into heaven, Peter preached that the people of Israel should believe that Jesus Christ was who He said He was, the Messiah. They should repent, and be baptized with water (Acts 2:38). If they all did this, then Jesus Christ would return and bring in the kingdom just as the Old Testament prophets had foretold (Acts 3:19-21).

This is a misapplication of Acts 3:19-21. This is not an exclusive preaching by Peter. Philip and Paul, as mentioned in my previous Post, also preached the things concerning the kingdom of God, that is the coming of Christ and the establishment of the kingdom. As stated by Peter this is the subject matter of the prophets. Peter knew that the nation of Israel as a whole would not repent at his preaching, and the message of the prophets was not cancelled by this rejection, but actually also foretold the rejection of the gospel by the Jews and their scattering as occurred in AD70.

7. The twelve apostles were under the law of Moses and continued to zealously follow the law all of their lives. But Paul taught the Gentiles "... ye are not under the law, but under grace" (Romans 6:14).

This is not strictly true and on one occasion Paul rebuked Peter regarding this matter:
Galatians 2:11-16 (KJV):11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. 12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision. 13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation. 14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews? 15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Please note above also that Paul does not say that there was Peter’s gospel and Paul’s gospel. There is only one gospel, “the gospel”.

Going back to an earlier item and quoting only a part:

2. However, there have been other valid gospels in the past (Galatians 3:8)

There is only one gospel from Eden until the end of the 1000 years reign of Christ. The suggestion that Galatians 3:8 supports two gospels ignores the correct understanding of this passage and its context. The theory of “Dispensations” is not supported by the Scriptures.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Yeshua1]

Greetings again xfrodobagginsx,
Philip and Paul both preached the Gospel of Christ and this gospel contains the things concerning the Kingdom of God and the Name of Jesus Christ.
Acts 8:5 (KJV): 5 Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them. 12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Acts 28:25-31 (KJV): 25 And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Spirit by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers, 26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive: 27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. 28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it. 29 And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.
30 And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him, 31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.
I certainly do not agree with the Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons or WWCG. I believe that there is One God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
Luke 1:35 (KJV): And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
John 1:14 (KJV): And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John 20:30-31 (KJV): 30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
Romans 1:1-5 (KJV): 1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, 2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) 3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: 5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

Kind regards
Trevor

Do you agree that Jesus is GOD in human flesh then?

Just as much God as the father is?
And that the Holy Spirit also is fully just as much God then?

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Yeshua1,

Do you agree that Jesus is GOD in human flesh then?

Just as much God as the father is?
And that the Holy Spirit also is fully just as much God then?

My simple answer to your question is: No, I do not believe the Trinity, and the definition of the Trinity in the various creeds is not a good representation concerning the Scriptural teaching concerning God and Jesus. Your comment seems to be different to the subject of this thread, and you have repeated this type of question on a number of occasions. I have mentioned in a number of threads that I believe that there is One God, the Father and that our Lord Jesus Christ is The Son of God. In a thread called "Trinity" I explained many aspects of my understanding of this subject.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Yeshua1]

Greetings again Yeshua1,
My simple answer to your question is: No, I do not believe the Trinity, and the definition of the Trinity in the various creeds is not a good representation concerning the Scriptural teaching concerning God and Jesus. Your comment seems to be different to the subject of this thread, and you have repeated this type of question on a number of occasions. I have mentioned in a number of threads that I believe that there is One God, the Father and that our Lord Jesus Christ is The Son of God. In a thread called "Trinity" I explained many aspects of my understanding of this subject.

Kind regards
Trevor

So you then deny Jesus is fully God, so that would mean that your hope is placed in a false Christ and Gospel my friend!