I'm taking the spiritual lead in my family

[evangelist6589]

Perhaps you have heard of Billy and Ruth Bell Graham?
She was Presbyterian all her life, did not join the Baptist church Billy pastored near Wheaton, had her babies sprinkled, etc.

From Ruth and Billy Graham: The Legacy of a Couple:

"In Montreat, Ruth and her five children regularly attended the local Presbyterian church. Well-meaning friends of Billy's wanted to convert Ruth to the Baptist faith, but anyone familiar with Ruth's character was aware that this was an impossible undertaking. . . .Ruth's opinion was that, if anything, it was Billy who should switch churches. . . .When Billy was at home on a Sunday, he and the family attended the local Presbyterian church."

These are rare examples and not the norm of the millions of christian families.

 

[evangelist6589]

or maybe attend one church in the AM and in the PM attend the other church.\If I am correct, this is the church that she has attend all her life - if so, it would be very hard for her to leave.

That sounds like good advice if she takes it. But I seriously doubt it.

 

[evangelist6589]

If it violates your conscience to attend the church, perhaps you may need to attend separate churches for a while. That being said, I would hope that you could have a series of gentle, heart-felt conversations about what would be the best option.


Question: What are her reasons for not wanting to change?

1. Calvinist Church
2. Not KJVP--Some teachers at the church use the NIV
3. They allow drinking in moderation
4. The music
5. Their view on separation
etc..

She won't compromise for my sake.

 

[evangelist6589]

You said:
I asked What makes a "healthy marriage?" And then I asked you to Please define what you think "healthy marriage" means.

So, yes, you did. And again I ask, Please define what you think "healthy marriage" means.

A marriage where both communicate, get along, and love and serve each other. A marriage where they also will compromise for the sake of another.

 

[TCassidy]

A marriage where both communicate, get along, and love and serve each other.

How do you bring that about?

A marriage where they also will compromise for the sake of another.

And how do you cause that to happen?

 

[StefanM]

1. Calvinist Church
2. Not KJVP--Some teachers at the church use the NIV
3. They allow drinking in moderation
4. The music
5. Their view on separation
etc..

She won't compromise for my sake.

It sounds like she's just going to be IFB unless God leads her in another direction. If you try to force her to change, I guarantee she'll end up just resenting you.

I can understand the desire to escape an IFB environment. I would rather change denominations than attend an IFB church. That being said, you're in a difficult situation.

Do you feel like your conscience is violated by attending the IFB, or does the church just annoy or irritate you? There's a big difference. If you believe it is wrong to attend that church, you should not attend it. If it's a preference issue, all I can say is to commit the issue to prayer.

But whatever you do---do not force her. Spiritual leadership is not forcing another person against their conscience. You don't have the biblical authority to do that because it would be forcing a person to sin, which is always wrong.

 

[evangelist6589]

It sounds like she's just going to be IFB unless God leads her in another direction. If you try to force her to change, I guarantee she'll end up just resenting you.

I can understand the desire to escape an IFB environment. I would rather change denominations than attend an IFB church. That being said, you're in a difficult situation.

Do you feel like your conscience is violated by attending the IFB, or does the church just annoy or irritate you? There's a big difference. If you believe it is wrong to attend that church, you should not attend it. If it's a preference issue, all I can say is to commit the issue to prayer.

But whatever you do---do not force her. Spiritual leadership is not forcing another person against their conscience. You don't have the biblical authority to do that because it would be forcing a person to sin, which is always wrong.

Well since I enjoy having a Mike's here and there yes my conscience is violated. I also feel bad in that I do not give to the church like I should. I do not desire to give my money to a IFB church. It looks like we will both attend separate churches unfortunately.

 

[JonC]

1. Calvinist Church
2. Not KJVP--Some teachers at the church use the NIV
3. They allow drinking in moderation
4. The music
5. Their view on separation
etc..

She won't compromise for my sake.

I understand you asking your wife to compromise when it comes to choosing a church. My wife and I decided not to attend either of our home churches as a bit of compromise. Ironically, (and after 28 years of marriage) we are looking at moving our membership to her home church.

Anyway, so that we can have a bit of perspective and if it is not too personal, in seeking to move to this church you are asking your wife to compromise. What are you giving up in terms of church preference with the move?

 

[evangelist6589]

I understand you asking your wife to compromise when it comes to choosing a church. My wife and I decided not to attend either of our home churches as a bit of compromise. Ironically, (and after 28 years of marriage) we are looking at moving our membership to her home church.

Anyway, so that we can have a bit of perspective and if it is not too personal, in seeking to move to this church you are asking your wife to compromise. What are you giving up in terms of church preference with the move?

She won't join any church nor step foot in a non IFB church. So I wont force her to move we just will both attend separate churches.

 

[TCassidy]

I would rather change denominations than attend an IFB church.

Why? All Baptist churches are independent. After all, one of the Baptist Distinctives is "Autonomy of the Local Church." Would you change to a church with a dictatorship of a board not associated with your local congregation?

And you would abandon the fundamentals of the faith? Why?

 

[StefanM]

Well since I enjoy having a Mike's here and there yes my conscience is violated. I also feel bad in that I do not give to the church like I should. I do not desire to give my money to a IFB church. It looks like we will both attend separate churches unfortunately.

That would appear the short-term outcome. Most importantly, make sure that you do not become lax spiritually. If you do, it will confirm any possible biases against your preferred church. Be honest with your wife that you feel like your conscience will not permit you to continue attending the church.

The alcohol reason isn't that big of a deal, IMO, but your inability to give to the church is key. If you can't in good conscience give to a church, you don't belong there.

Hopefully, she will come around in time.

 

[StefanM]

Why? All Baptist churches are independent. After all, one of the Baptist Distinctives is "Autonomy of the Local Church." Would you change to a church with a dictatorship of a board not associated with your local congregation?

And you would abandon the fundamentals of the faith? Why?

I am a member of an SBC church for a reason. I'm not KJVO or KJVP, and there are a host of other IFB cultural and church practice issues that I cannot accept.

I would likely attend a non-denominational or Bible church. They are similar but not actually Baptist.

That would not require abandoning the fundamentals of the faith, either.

 

[TCassidy]

I would likely attend a non-denominational or Bible church. They are similar but not actually Baptist.

Okay. I see now. You see "baptist" as a denominational name rather than a doctrinal identity.

 

[evangelist6589]

Okay. I see now. You see "baptist" as a denominational name rather than a doctrinal identity.

With all the flavors of Baptist out there I guess they are each denominational. For example the SBC, IFB, and Conservative Baptists are very different yet have the name Baptist.

 

[StefanM]

Okay. I see now. You see "baptist" as a denominational name rather than a doctrinal identity.

Sure, de facto Baptist vs. officially Baptist is perhaps a distinction without a difference.

That being said, if my only options were an IFB church and a PCA church, I'd likely pick the PCA church. I would have disagreements with both, but I could attend a church that practices paedobaptism, in some cases. I'd rather not, but in my mind IFB represents a separate category of Baptist that I simply cannot abide. It's a matter of conscience.

IMO, it's a matter of evangelicalism more than Baptist in terms of doctrine. I'm Baptist in belief, but I could attend other denominational churches, if I had no other options. And I don't consider IFB an option.

 

[HankD]

Not sure how wonderful it is. It is obvious I am rapidly growing weaker, and my voice is not what it used to be. You have to turn the volume up high in order to hear it all.

But I think the point is an important one. Baptists have, historically, fought, split, fought, split, fought and split, often to the detriment of not only our churches, but also to our testimony to the world.

I have known missionaries who would not fellowship with other missionaries because they were with the "wrong" sending agencies. I know of IFB missionaries who would not cooperate with BBF missionaries who would not cooperate with GARBC missionaries who would not cooperate with WBF missionaries who would not cooperate with SBC missionaries and so on and so on and so on, ad infinitum, ad nausium.

It is entirely possible to disagree without being disagreeable, and to fellowship without walking in lock-step.

But, write it off to an old man's folly. I doubt many will listen, at least not if the BB is a representative microcosm of Baptist churches in general.

I hear you Tom, but I'm also an old man (with folly of my own).

 

[JonC]

She won't join any church nor step foot in a non IFB church. So I wont force her to move we just will both attend separate churches.

I don't know that that's a good idea, Evan. We are dealing with two very different but Christian churches. Your marriage is more important than your preference of churches.

I recommend you attend church with your wife and put your whole heart in that worship. And when you leave continue to love your wife and put her needs and desires over your own. After awhile, I think that the issue may fade. A church is a gathering of imperfect people worshiping an almighty and perfect God. There will always be things to complain about, but there will always be One who holds it all together because we are His. I don't know that it's too much to ask for you to give up Mikes Hard Lemonade and your worship preference in love towards a person for whom Christ suffered and died to save, particularly if this person is your wife who you are to love, cherish, and put her needs over your own, just as Christ loves the Church.

I wish you the very best, and will continue praying for you. What I wrote above is just my suggestion, what I believe is the right step based only on what I've read here. If I were you, I'd try to find someone to talk to as a couple.

 

[StefanM]

I don't know that that's a good idea, Evan. We are dealing with two very different but Christian churches. Your marriage is more important than your preference of churches.

I recommend you attend church with your wife and put your whole heart in that worship. And when you leave continue to love your wife and put her needs and desires over your own. After awhile, I think that the issue may fade. A church is a gathering of imperfect people worshiping an almighty and perfect God. There will always be things to complain about, but there will always be One who holds it all together because we are His. I don't know that it's too much to ask for you to give up Mikes Hard Lemonade and your worship preference in love towards a person for whom Christ suffered and died to save, particularly if this person is your wife who you are to love, cherish, and put her needs over your own, just as Christ loves the Church.

I wish you the very best, and will continue praying for you. What I wrote above is just my suggestion, what I believe is the right step based only on what I've read here. If I were you, I'd try to find someone to talk to as a couple.

I agree regarding the alcohol, but I can't be so sure about the rest. I know that to be a member of an IFB church would violate my conscience, so I can understand how it could be challenging for others.

But if he can at all make the IFB church work, he should. He can always pray for God to change his wife's mind on the matter.

 

[TCassidy]

SBC, IFB, and Conservative Baptists are very different yet have the name Baptist.

That's my point. The name "baptist" means nothing. What a church believes is what makes it "baptist," not the word on the sign out front.

There are many churches that are "baptist" in doctrine but without the word on their sign, and many with the word on their sign which are not "baptist" in doctrine.

 

[TCassidy]

That being said, if my only options were an IFB church and a PCA church, I'd likely pick the PCA church.

I still don't see your reasoning. What is it about the autonomy of the local congregation (I) and the fundamentals of the faith (F) and the baptist distinctives (B) that you disagree with?