The world as a whole safer but not Baghdad.
Before the election many of us predicted the possibility of WWIII, In fact I believe its inevitable.
Trump didn't drag us into it we were in the middle of it all along.
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Iranian assassination ill-advised
- Thread starter asterisktom
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Before the election many of us predicted the possibility of WWIII, In fact I believe its inevitable.
Trump didn't drag us into it we were in the middle of it all along.
Lol, I'm sorry (Larry The Cable Guy: God have mercy on the pygmies in Africa), but I love his bluntness to the point:
Trump Warns Iran: 52 Targets Set in Case of Attack–One for Every 1979 Embassy Hostage
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Trump speaks the language that they understand.
Trump Warns Iran: 52 Targets Set in Case of Attack–One for Every 1979 Embassy Hostage
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Trump speaks the language that they understand.
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When we started "nation building" is where most of our problems come from, and that is exactlythe reason why we are in the exposed position we are in over there, be it Iraq, Afghanistan, or any other place in the Middle East.
It's going on 20 years that we are fighting in Afghanistan and since 2003 in Iraq, so how much longer are we going to be in those places? We should have done what we did during Saddam's invasion of Kuwait, kill the bad guys and then get out.
Enough already, it's time to bring the troops home and let the Muslims go at each other.
Reagan handled Iran the same way.
I have read again carefully all of the responses on this thread, the thoughtful ones at least. I noticed that not one of you mentioned the event that largely created the monstrous Iran of today.
It was not 9/11.
It was not the Carter years hostage crisis and over through by the Mullahs.
It goes back to 1953. The Iranians had a democratic election. Just the kind we profess we want for all countries to have. They chose Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh. But we (the US and Great Britain) ousted him in order to reinstate a puppet, Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi, for the sake of keeping control of their own oil. (How dare the Iranians insist on rights to their own oil!)
Here is a little quote from Wiki on that ugly incident:
"According to the CIA's declassified documents and records, some of the most feared mobsters in Tehran were hired by the CIA to stage pro-Shah riots on 19 August.[24] Other CIA-paid men were brought into Tehran in buses and trucks, and took over the streets of the city.[25] Between 200[3] and 300[4] people were killed because of the conflict. Mosaddegh was arrested, tried and convicted of treason by the Shah's military court"
So the animosity of Iranians to us is not from Islamic fanaticism - at least not historically. It is from our stealing their democracy from them. This animosity enabled the destabilization that led to the Mullahs coming into power. And it has largely fueled the Iran of today's attitude towards us.
If Iran is a monster today it is a Frankenstein of our own making.
The fact that no one here even mentioned this important antecedent is very telling.
It was not 9/11.
It was not the Carter years hostage crisis and over through by the Mullahs.
It goes back to 1953. The Iranians had a democratic election. Just the kind we profess we want for all countries to have. They chose Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh. But we (the US and Great Britain) ousted him in order to reinstate a puppet, Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi, for the sake of keeping control of their own oil. (How dare the Iranians insist on rights to their own oil!)
Here is a little quote from Wiki on that ugly incident:
"According to the CIA's declassified documents and records, some of the most feared mobsters in Tehran were hired by the CIA to stage pro-Shah riots on 19 August.[24] Other CIA-paid men were brought into Tehran in buses and trucks, and took over the streets of the city.[25] Between 200[3] and 300[4] people were killed because of the conflict. Mosaddegh was arrested, tried and convicted of treason by the Shah's military court"
So the animosity of Iranians to us is not from Islamic fanaticism - at least not historically. It is from our stealing their democracy from them. This animosity enabled the destabilization that led to the Mullahs coming into power. And it has largely fueled the Iran of today's attitude towards us.
If Iran is a monster today it is a Frankenstein of our own making.
The fact that no one here even mentioned this important antecedent is very telling.
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What is very telling is your attempt here to read the minds of Iranians. What is telling is that you conveniently leave out the fact that Iran is the number 1 exporter of terrorism in the world. What you intentionally leave out is that the current regime and the brutality the commit on their own people in Iran has absolutely nothing to do with your claim. There is a whole lot you leave out. Lastly you almost never post here and it has been a while since you last posted. But you show up now just to bash Trump. That is what is telling.
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I'm not reading minds. I'm reading history.
You should try it sometime.
If I thought you truly cared to reexamine your belief I would show you some sources that back up my supposed mind-reading.
You don't get it. I don't question your recollection of history. I reject your interpretation and current application of it. Further, the other facts I have laid out discredits them.
Tom, let us say that everything you say is correct, even though no scholar worth their salt will ever quote Wikipedia. The fact is that Iran is governed by radical Shi'a Islamists who are determined to export its brand of Islam throughout Asia. Iran wants control of all oil reserves in Asia. Iran is dedicated to the destruction of Israel. No matter how Iran got this way, it is this way. An Iran with nuclear weapons just intensifies the threat it presents. If Iran's main concern was the redress of wrongs done to it by the international community in the 1950s, there are other ways to do that. However, that is not Iran's motivation. Their motivation is dominance and the elimination of its enemies.
Tge attack upon the Embassy was an ACT OF WAR against the USA. Iran is a nation owned and ran by terrorists. Iran considers itsself AT WAR w the US, the West and Israel (and the Saudis).
Iran even terrorizes its own people.
I said after 911 that the US had neither the will nor the intestinal fortitude to go in an do what needed to be done, and so far we havent, but we are closer with Trump.
Do we rally want to return to the Carter/Obama stance on the Middle East?
There will be more arracks either way. I say go ahead and kill Soeimani successor now. Hes guilty too.
What's to REALLY fear about Iran? In an out-n-out war with us, they'd be handled as easily as Iraq was.
But Iran won't be destroyed. They'll be part of the coming "Gog-magog" attack upon Israel, so whatever happens in the near-future won't be the end of Iran.
But Iran won't be destroyed. They'll be part of the coming "Gog-magog" attack upon Israel, so whatever happens in the near-future won't be the end of Iran.
The chain of events... I believe you mentioned Gog-Magog...
Whatever happened in 1953 does not give Iran the right to do what they do on the world stage
I disagree. The Iranians aren't the Iraqi's who folded easily when we invaded. They are fanatics who already are meddling in Yemen, Iraq and have been the purveyors of terrorism the world order. While we would eventually defeat them, they would be no pushover.
What facts? All I read were Fox News talking points.
Particular
Well-Known Member
As persecution against Christians intensifies in Iran, the church is standing strong. In fact, it’s growing! In this Middle Eastern country where both conversion from Islam and sharing your faith are illegal, Muslims are rapidly coming to Christ—so rapidly that Iran’s government leaders are acknowledging the exponential growth of the church.
Addressing a gathering of Shia Muslim leaders, Iran’s Intelligence Minister, Mahmoud Alavi, openly admitted to summoning Christian converts for questioning, saying that mass conversions “are happening right under our eyes.”
Alavi admitted his agency is collaborating with Muslim religious seminaries to combat the perceived threat of mass conversions to Christianity across the country.
In his speech, Alavi also admitted that “these converts are ordinary people, whose jobs are selling sandwiches or similar things.” According to Article 18’s Advocacy Director Mansour Borji, this admission represents a “huge shift” away from Iran’s usual rhetoric that converts are agents of the West who have undergone significant training to undermine national security.
“It is also interesting to see the intelligence minister admit to ‘whole families’ converting,” Borji said, noting that this is “an admission that such conversions are far from a rare event; rather they are happening en masse, and across the country.”
Iranian official: Mass conversions ‘are happening right under our eyes’ - Open Doors USA
Addressing a gathering of Shia Muslim leaders, Iran’s Intelligence Minister, Mahmoud Alavi, openly admitted to summoning Christian converts for questioning, saying that mass conversions “are happening right under our eyes.”
Alavi admitted his agency is collaborating with Muslim religious seminaries to combat the perceived threat of mass conversions to Christianity across the country.
In his speech, Alavi also admitted that “these converts are ordinary people, whose jobs are selling sandwiches or similar things.” According to Article 18’s Advocacy Director Mansour Borji, this admission represents a “huge shift” away from Iran’s usual rhetoric that converts are agents of the West who have undergone significant training to undermine national security.
“It is also interesting to see the intelligence minister admit to ‘whole families’ converting,” Borji said, noting that this is “an admission that such conversions are far from a rare event; rather they are happening en masse, and across the country.”
Iranian official: Mass conversions ‘are happening right under our eyes’ - Open Doors USA
i'm going by what a former hostage in the embassy told me. He said most of his captors believe they had a wolf by the ears, & became quite-worried when Reagan won the POTUS. He believed most Iranians were a lot like us, except for being Moslems, & weren't over-concerned about their govt.
Oh come on. You probably also go to Wiki for certain facts. Don't play the scholar card on this informal discussion. Wiki is basically trustworthy on providing basic facts. It is in the interpretation that they are often shaky. Which of those facts from that snippet do you contest? You can go to the WIki yourself and check the links (One, I think, is broken). On these points I mentioned there is plenty of redundancy of sources.
Your first sentence is most likely true. Your second is not so much. Does not a sovereign nation have an inherent right over its own resources - regardless of their ideology? And how do you know that they want "all oil reserves in Asia"?
And Israel is dedicated to the destruction of Iran. Why don't we leave the two to settle their differences by war or wisdom (not likely). Why are we all so bound to Israel? It is our faulty theology that does not recognize the true nature of this faux "people of God".
No, it does matter how Iran got this way. A key to defusing this situation certainly must be understanding their national baggage. We need to learn from history.
The Eisenhower administration are the ones that gave them weapons grade uranium in the mid 50's. Are we to fault them for the possession and improvement of that gift, seeing that their country is ringed with US enemy bases? How would we feel if, say Russia or China had their bases in southern Canada or northern Mexico?
How do you know this? And how do you facilely speak of the whole nation is a homogenous Borglike entity?
And, no, I am not a fan of what Iran has become. But I separate the people of Iran - some of whom I met - from those who currently hold it hostage.
A challenge: Can anyone justify that attitudes displayed in this thread from a Biblical standpoint? From the New Testament?
After all, this is a Biblical discussion board.
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