• Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Is Christ "completely God, completely flesh"?

Status
Not open for further replies.

atpollard

Well-Known Member
Calvinists deny "individual soul liberty" therefore Calvinists do not hold with at least one of our Baptist distinctives.
That seems odd to me since half of all Baptists are Particular and half are General and there have ALWAYS been both General and Particular Baptists with each having a turn in the majority. How can a majority of Baptists deny a Baptist distinctive at one point in history?

By definition that would disqualify "individual soul liberty" as being a distinctive.
 

atpollard

Well-Known Member
First, creeds tend to contain doctrinal errors. In the above, it is asserted Jesus is "his only Son." Since the "S" in "Son" is capitalized some might claim that makes a distinction because the capital means "his only divine Son." But if you do not read that into the creed, the text denies Adam was a son of God, and of course, every single born anew believer is a "son of God."
Thank you for this.

(I would have 'liked' the post, but you added the attack on Calvinism to the bottom.)
 

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
A good seminar teaches objectively and allows the student the liberty to make his own conclusions.

People need to speak about what they know. Here you have made several simple errors that would have been prevented with a basic (even undergraduate) education of Christian history.

But you double down on error (like your misunderstanding of the history of the Athanasian Creed.... You assumed it was a fourth century work, did not realize it was the Reformed position expressed in the Belgic Confession and the 1689 London Baptist Confession).

You look to the 1689 Confession as an authority while rejecting the doctrines upon which it was established. This would have been prevented with adequate study.
This is baloney. The Reformed and Baptist creeds are based on the Ecumenical creeds.
 

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
So you fall outside of the orthodox position by accusing Christians of denying Scripture or being lost for stating Christ is "completely God, completely human".

You think, in error, that means "two persons". Yet the 1689 Confession depends on the Athanasian Creed (this creed was instrumental to the Belgic Confession and the Canons of Dort).
I said the Creeds say that about you, not me.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Here's scripture to consider.

“And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly: and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.” 1 Thessalonians 5:23 (NCPB)

“For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.” Hebrews 4:12 (NCPB)

“And Mary said, ‘My soul doth magnify the Lord,” Luke 1:46 (NCPB)
“and my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.” Luke 1:47 (NCPB)

“For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s.” 1 Corinthians 6:20 (NCPB)

“For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding (mind/soul) is unfruitful.” 1 Corinthians 14:14 (NCPB)
To my eye, all the above reference our human spirit/soul, but do not address with Christ had a human spirit/soul in addition to His divine Spirit/Soul.
 

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
To my eye, all the above reference our human spirit/soul, but do not address with Christ had a human spirit/soul in addition to His divine Spirit/Soul.
The passages treat soul and spirit as two separate parts of human beings.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
That seems odd to me since half of all Baptists are Particular and half are General and there have ALWAYS been both General and Particular Baptists with each having a turn in the majority. How can a majority of Baptists deny a Baptist distinctive at one point in history?

By definition that would disqualify "individual soul liberty" as being a distinctive.
On and on folks, Calvinists deny the obvious.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Thank you for this.
(I would have 'liked' the post, but you added the attack on Calvinism to the bottom.)

You are welcome, and your post #81 fulfilled my reference to Calvinism's denial of Individual Soul Liberty.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
The passages treat soul and spirit as two separate parts of human beings.
Sir, that is not the issue in dispute. Did Christ have a human "soul/spirit" in addition to His divine "Spirit/Soul" is the issue.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
What does the symbol of Chalcedon say?
Why address this question to me when you did not even attempt to answer my question. Apparently no one has any clue as to the biblical basis for the claim Christ had a human "spirit/soul" in addition to His divine "Spirit/Soul.

As with many creeds, the Chalcedon contains errors, so why not back up and cite scripture. Speculation is the mother of false doctrine.
 
Last edited:

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
I said the Creeds say that about you, not me.
But they do not. That is my point. While I do not care about the creeds I do believe that they provide an excellent doctrine regarding the Hypostatic Union.

Christ is One Person, two natures (inseparable yet without mixture), fully man and fully God. I completely agree with that. In fact, that was what I offered.
 

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
Why address this question to me when you did not even attempt to answer my question. Apparently no one has any clue as to the biblical basis for the claim Christ had a human "spirit/soul" in addition to His divine "Spirit/Soul.
If you can't see it in scripture, perhaps the creeds can help you look for it.
 

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
But they do not. That is my point. While I do not care about the creeds I do believe that they provide an excellent doctrine regarding the Hypostatic Union.

Christ is One Person, two natures (inseparable yet without mixture), fully man and fully God. I completely agree with that. In fact, that was what I offered.
The creeds divide the sheep from the wolves.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
If you can't see it in scripture, perhaps the creeds can help you look for it.
I know the answer from scripture Sir, I was trying to encourage others to base their doctrine on scripture rather than creedal assertions without actual support in scripture.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Chalcedon Creed said:
We, then, following the holy Fathers, all with one consent, teach men to confess one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, the same perfect in Godhead and also perfect in manhood; truly God and truly man, of a reasonable [rational] soul and body; consubstantial [coessential] with the Father according to the Godhead, and consubstantial with us according to the Manhood; in all things like unto us, without sin; begotten before all ages of the Father according to the Godhead, and in these latter days, for us and for our salvation, born of the Virgin Mary, the Mother of God, according to the Manhood; one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, Only-begotten, to be acknowledged in two natures, inconfusedly, unchangeably, indivisibly, inseparably; the distinction of natures being by no means taken away by the union, but rather the property of each nature being preserved, and concurring in one Person and one Subsistence, not parted or divided into two persons, but one and the same Son, and only begotten, God the Word, the Lord Jesus Christ, as the prophets from the beginning [have declared] concerning him, and the Lord Jesus Christ himself has taught us, and the Creed of the holy Fathers has handed down to us.

Errors:
1) What is being taught with the assertion Jesus had a reasonable (rational) body?
2) Why was Christ's divine Spirit not included?
3) Properly understood, Psalm 2:7 teaches God the Son was engendered when He was anointed with the Holy Spirit and Power.
4) What is "consubstantial?" Being of the same essence does not equate with being equally essential. For example Christ is more essential than any other human.
5) Only Begotten is a mistranslation
6) No Baptist accepts the creeds handed down, should read "and the Scripture handed down to us.
 
Last edited:

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Why address any question to you when you NEVER answer the question that was asked? [rhetorical]
On and on, ad hominem after ad hominem, posting a smokescreed to hide the obvious

Here is my actual post:
Why address this question to me when you did not even attempt to answer my question. Apparently no one has any clue as to the biblical basis for the claim Christ had a human "spirit/soul" in addition to His divine "Spirit/Soul.

Did you see an answer, or just a charge that I do not answer. Never mind my post #97 where I did address the question.
On and on folks, on and on, the obvious false doctrine of Calvinism is defended using smokescreed.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Just for grins, folks, how many "spirits" did Christ have, one or two? How many left His body when He died? You can look it up. :)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top