Is Eating Pork Wrong?

[Helen]

In Exodus we find two distinct sets of laws. The first, known as the Ten Commandments, can be carried out by a person individually without benefit of either cultural or legal sanctions or support. These laws are universal -- for all mankind. There is strong evidence both biblically and extra-biblically that they were known before God wrote them in stone. (It is very possible God wrote them in stone in part because man had already added so much to them). Consider that the Sabbath rest was known before the Ten Commandments were given. Capital punishment for murder is mentioned by God to Noah in Genesis 9. Other laws from the list can be found in what we have of the Code of Hammurabi, which definitely predates the Ten Commandments. That Code also has some laws about very inconsequential (at least to us) minutae.

However after Exodus 20, God makes it very plain He is speaking to the Israelites as a future nation which will be governed by a theocracy. He lays down a series of laws which can ONLY be obeyed with a cultural and legal mandate. In these laws he puts the dietary restrictions. These restrictions were for the nation of Israel at that time, and for them and at that time only. There ARE places in the world where rats, cats, and dogs are eaten. These people are not disobeying God's law.

And I imagine there are things we do which leave THEM scratching their heads in amazement, too. Remember the movie, "The Gods Must Be Crazy"?

There are laws which are for societies and cultures at that time.

Then there are the basic, simple, clear laws of God for all men.

All of THEM hang on the two Jesus mentioned: love God with everything in you and love your neighbor as yourself.

Now, if you are eating a rat in front of your neighbor and it causes him to throw up in disgust, I can see where that is NOT loving your neighbor very much....I do suggest that if eating rats is your thing, you do it in private and cook them quite thoroughly first!

Same with pork. At least cook the stuff well. And if you have a neighbor who is offended by pork, then don't serve it when he or she is over. That's simple courtesy, even apart from God's Law.

 

[BobRyan]

Helen is right to treat this issue as a basic statement on the Law of God as God's Word and how we should either accept it, ignore it or reason through it.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Here is one translation --

Is 66

16 For [b]the LORD will execute judgment by fire And by His sword on all flesh[/b], And those slain by the LORD will be many.
17 ""Those who sanctify and purify themselves to go to the gardens, Following one in the center, Who eat swine's flesh, detestable things and mice[/b], will come to an end altogether,'' declares the LORD.
18 ""For I know their works and their thoughts; the time is coming to gather all nations and tongues. And they shall come and see My glory.

Here is another view entirely --


"Now, if you are eating a rat in front of your neighbor and it causes him to throw up in disgust, I can see where that is NOT loving your neighbor very much....I do suggest that if eating rats is your thing, you do it in private and cook them quite thoroughly first!"

Pick one.

 

[Helen]

Bob, God is talking through Isaiah to the Israelites. Look at the context. In verse 13, for instance, we read
As a mother comforts her child, so I will comfort you;
and you will be comforted over Jerusalem.

What He is telling the Israelites in the verses you quoted is that they will have to give accounting to Him for either obeying or disobeying the laws He gave THEM. They are a called out and separate people physically as Christians are spiritually.

It is what comes out of our hearts which makes us clean or unclean to God, not what goes into our mouths.

"Are you still so dull?" Jesus asked them. "Don't you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man 'unclean'"
Matthew 15:16-18

 

[BobRyan]

Helen -

In Mark 7 the Jews are angry with the disciples over the issue of eating WHEAT (this not a clean unclean meat discussion in Mark 7). They argue that the Disciples should follow the man-made tradition of the Jews by baptizing their hands before they eat.

They argued that sin gets on the hands - then when the hands touch the wheat - sin is on the wheat - then when you eat the wheat sin gets in YOU.

Christ was debating that point and the quote you use above is where Christ argues PRE-Cross that in the PRe-Cross context there is NO truth in that argument of the Jews.

He was not arguing that there is no truth in God's Word in Lev 11 where God says "this is food and this is not food".

In Gen 6 we see this same distinction between "clean and unclean" many many centuries before there is even one single Jew.

In Isaiah 66 God condemns those who eat mice and even claims that in the Rev 20 future - they will be burned in fire and brimstone.

I would say that taking God seriously on the Lev 11 point post-cross has to be legit - if He is still going to hold people accountable for doing things like eating mice - post cross!

I agree with you that God is speaking to Jews in Isaiah btw. And my point is not to condemn those who consume cat-sandwiches and rats - just to point out that our Creator God knew what He was talking about when he said that stuff was not food for us.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

It is what comes out of our hearts which makes us clean or unclean to God, not what goes into our mouths.

"Are you still so dull?" Jesus asked them. "Don't you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man 'unclean'"
Matthew 15:16-18

As we see in Acts 10 where Peter says "Oh No Lord for I have NEVER eaten anything unclean" -- the disciples listening to Christ in Mark 7 and Matt 15 discussing the man-made-tradition regarding sin getting on your fingers and sticking to the WHEAT you were eating then getting inside you -- did not take that as a command to eat rats or even cats.

Peter proudly asserts in Acts 10 as a point of faithfulness that he has remained true to God's Word in Lev 11. In Acts 10 and 11 Peter interprets the vision 3 times for us as "call no MAN unholy or unclean" -- not once does he add 'and also eat rats'.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[tragic_pizza]

Nope.

ever eat cats?

*sigh*

So many cats, so few really good recipes...

 

[Amy.G]

*sigh*

So many cats, so few really good recipes...

:laugh: :laugh:

 

[Claudia_T]

You could have a Cats-serole with Cats-up on it.

 

[tragic_pizza]

You could have a Cats-serole with Cats-up on it.

... and eat it while on my Cat-amaran?

 

[BobRyan]

Where are all those Christian restaurants with the signs "show your love for gentiles - EAT MORE RATS"

 

[Amy.G]

Where are all those Christian restaurants with the signs "show your love for gentiles - EAT MORE RATS"

Nuttin but love for ya Bob, nuttin but love.:wavey:

 

[Dustin]

Nothin's wrong with eating pork, but I'm a beef eater myself.

hamburger, rib-eye, t-bone, briscit, veal, beef flavored ramen...

What a glorious gift the Lord has given to us in cows!

I'll never eat beef flavoured ice cream though, I'm not THAT hardcore.

 

[Claudia_T]

Look at this... its close where I used to live most of my life in Texas. Scroll down and look at the Blue Bells Flowers and the red Indian Blanket flowers. I used to love going out on walks out in Nature when I lived there. It was just beautiful in Summertime. And Blue Bell Ice Cream... yummmmmmm "Blue Bell, the best Ice Cream in the Country" was their little jingle song. Scroll down and look at the Blue Bell flowers, they blanket the countryside: http://www.bluebell.com/


My favorite "Cow" Ice Cream... their logo is the little girl walking the Cow.


Claudia

 

[BobRyan]

Nothin's wrong with eating pork, but I'm a beef eater myself.

hamburger, rib-eye, t-bone, briscit, veal, beef flavored ramen...

What a glorious gift the Lord has given to us in cows!

I'll never eat beef flavoured ice cream though, I'm not THAT hardcore.

Do you not know that you sir are snubbing us Gentiles by refusing the rat, cat, dog bat delicacies? Your focus on beef steak fits with scripture of Lev 11 and is so "last year" -- or should I say "last dispensation" when God was telling us beef steak is food for humans and rat-steak is not.

You are in danger of failing to ignore the correct scriptures sir. Get in touch with your inner gentile -- eat rats and be free.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Eric B]

And in all this what has been totally forgotten is that the SDA has been strongly discouraging ALL meats.

 

[BobRyan]

Apparently the SDAs here have forgotten to post that.

I challenge those stinking SDAs - "how in the world can Lev 11 be right about beef steak (and chicken, lamb, goat, deer and salmon) BEING Edible -- as in "FOOD for humans" but then rat or cat steak NOT being "food for humans -- IF in fact a vegetarian diet is even healthier "food for humans" than beef, chicken, lamb, goat and deer?"!

Somebody has some explaining to do!

Until that gets sorted out - up with rat steak --- down with beef steak! (IN a gospel makes-rats-ok-to-eat kinda way of course)

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Claudia_T]

And in all this what has been totally forgotten is that the SDA has been strongly discouraging ALL meats.

Seventh Day Adventists who live by the health Laws of our church live on the average of from 7 or 8 years longer than the general population. Its a fact. That gives new meaning to the commandment "Thou shalt not kill" because you arent supposed to kill yourself either by a slow death, taking years off your life because of carelessness in how you treat the body that God gave you as a gift.

Some SDAs eat meat and others are Vegetarians. The health laws are Nutrition (proper), Exercise, Water (pure), Sunshine, Temperance (no smoking, drinking, drugs), Air (fresh), Rest, and Trust in divine power (no stress). You can remember that easily because if you take all the capital letters in that list it spells out NEW START.

The original diet given to man was a Vegetarian diet, there was no sin yet, thus no death. [Genesis 1:29]. Our bodies were not really designed to eat meat. Regular food digests quickly as it is supposed to. But meat takes much much longer and so it putrifies in the body.

That is why now the world is finally catching up with all of this, they recommend fruits, vegetables and whole grains. Thats what the original diet was all along. God knows best since after all, He created us. But it is important to know how to rightly incorporate all the proper nutrition in your diet when becoming a Vegetarian. Fruits, Vegetables, Legumes, Whole Grains and Nuts. A little milk, cream and cheese.

There are some things "allowed" in the Bible but "not all things are profitable".

That is why when Daniel refused the king's meat and wine and other food, and ate "pulse" he and his friends were 10 times better off then the kings men. Pulse is just another word for a Vegetarian diet.

There will be no eating meat in heaven either since no more death again, just like before sin entered the world.


Info below Taken from: http://www.annecollins.com/vegetarian-diet-health-benefits.htm

The Seventh-Day Adventist Church Health Study

This is the only major ongoing study on the general health and mortality of vegetarians in the U.S. Data was collected from 1976-1988. Of the 34,192 participants, all members of the Seventh-day Adventist church: 29 percent were vegetarian, while 7-10 percent of the vegetarians were vegan.
Compared to non-vegetarians the above vegetarians had about:

• 1/2 the high blood pressure and diabetes
• 1/2 the colon cancer
• 2/3 the rheumatoid arthritis and prostate cancer
• Breast, lung, & uterine cancers tended to be lower in vegetarians but could have been due to random chance.

Vegetarian Life Expectancy

Life expectancies in the Adventist Health Study have recently been published. They show that this group of Seventh-day Adventists appears to be the longest-lived, formally studied population in the world (with an average life span of 78.5 years for men, 82.3 for women).


-----------------
So it would appear the Seventh Day Adventists know what they are doing.

Claudia

 

[BobRyan]

Info below Taken from: http://www.annecollins.com/vegetaria...h-benefits.htm

The Seventh-Day Adventist Church Health Study

This is the only major ongoing study on the general health and mortality of vegetarians in the U.S. Data was collected from 1976-1988. Of the 34,192 participants, all members of the Seventh-day Adventist church: 29 percent were vegetarian, while 7-10 percent of the vegetarians were vegan.
Compared to non-vegetarians the above vegetarians had about:

• 1/2 the high blood pressure and diabetes
• 1/2 the colon cancer
• 2/3 the rheumatoid arthritis and prostate cancer
• Breast, lung, & uterine cancers tended to be lower in vegetarians but could have been due to random chance.

Vegetarian Life Expectancy

Life expectancies in the Adventist Health Study have recently been published. They show that this group of Seventh-day Adventists appears to be the longest-lived, formally studied population in the world (with an average life span of 78.5 years for men, 82.3 for women).


-----------------
So it would appear the Seventh Day Adventists know what they are doing.

Great post Claudia -

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Bro. James]

Yes, if you are Jewish, Moslem, Hindu, etc. etc. Otherwise: the "you are what you eat" rule applies.

The scripture speaks of things being unclean--swine being one of many things forbidden including catfish and crustaceans and other things for which we pay top dollar. When one considers where these creatures feed, it is not difficult to see that God may have been giving Israel some sound nutritional advice.

Let us nail all of these laws to the tree where Jesus said "It is finished".

Now what?

We still have to consider where our food supply comes from--plant and animal for those of us who are omnivores; the vegetarians have a similar dilemma: contaminated food sources. This includes polluted water and air--the whole biosphere comes into play.

Having harvested and eaten meats from the wild, including pig, I would make the observation that such meats are much more palatable than that which is procured from the supermarket or the local burger stand. I still have reservations about what we catch in our estuaries--they are the chemical sewers of the country.

No doubt, we are taking in an alarming amount of toxins from our environment. Maintaining a healthy immune system is all important.

Stop picking on the animals. The human kind has some strange behaviour too: not only is he promiscuous, he kills his unborn children--by the millions.

Let us all be vegetarians--has anyone found some clean lettuce?

Choose wisely,

Bro. James