Is Saving Faith A Gift?

[SavedByGrace]

A Little recap here

The OP states very clearly, that, IF "Saving Faith" is a "Gift" from God, as some claim, (though not anywhere in the 66 Books of the Holy Bible), and this Faith is only given to the "elect", to enable them to "believe" and get saved. Then HOW can the Bible say, that those who "DO NOT BELIEVE", will be condemned to eternal punishment?

I have been accused of going against the Lord and the Bible! I am against FALSE "reformed" theology!.

It is clear from the responses that I have read from the "reformed", that their theology has so blinded them, that they fail to see the error of what the say!

I will ask again, HOW can God give as a "GIFT", Saving Faith, only to the ELECT, and then punish the "non elect" for not BELIEVING, when it is God Who has made sure that they CANNOT BELIEVE in the first place???

Then, in # 19, @Iconoclast says. "God has commanded all men everywhere to repent.They do not want to.Acts17:30"

This is the SAME as what I am saying about Saving Faith in the OP!

The "reformed" claim, that "repentance" is also a "Gift" from God, which is ONLY for the "elect". IF this is true, then HOW and WHY would God command, "all men everywhere to repent", when they CANNOT, as this "Gift" is not given to them in the first place???

Also from this comment in # 19, we read, "They do not want to", which of course means that the entire human race, including the non elect, must have FREE WILLS, as THEY DO NOT WANT TO "repent", which requires a DECISION from them!

These are some of the inconsistent teachings that the so called "reformed" have, and then they will try to make others out to be the ones who don't understand the Bible!

 

[SavedByGrace]

"God genuinely desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth

HO HUM!

This is ONLY possible, if Jesus Christ died for the ENTRIRE HUMAN RACE! God would have had to make provision in the Death of Jesus Christ, if He "desires ALL the human race" to be saved. Anything less, is INSINCERE!

 

[SavedByGrace]

A man centered worldview thinks God, His word, His people ,are unfair.
We rejoice in God blessing us with so great a salvation.
We rejoice in a full atonement that is actual not potential.
We rejoice in God who alone determines who He will save and the means to that salvation .
Others look to blame God for our sin and loving sin rather than God.
In the other Christian denomination forum Protestant addressed this saying the two seeds are still at war.

Brother, I seriously do not think that you really understand the Bible's Teaching of salvation! Your responses are SO FLAWED!

 

[1689Dave]

1689, you are forcing a bias onto the text.
Moreso, you ignore all those whom God saved before Abram.
From Adam onward, God saved his chosen people by grace and granted them faith to believe.
Galatians 3:2-14
Let me ask you this one question: Did you receive the Holy Spirit by obeying the law of Moses? Of course not! You received the Spirit because you believed the message you heard about Christ. How foolish can you be? After starting your Christian lives in the Spirit, why are you now trying to become perfect by your own human effort? Have you experienced so much for nothing? Surely it was not in vain, was it? I ask you again, does God give you the Holy Spirit and work miracles among you because you obey the law? Of course not! It is because you believe the message you heard about Christ. In the same way, “Abraham believed God, and God counted him as righteous because of his faith.” The real children of Abraham, then, are those who put their faith in God. What’s more, the Scriptures looked forward to this time when God would declare the Gentiles to be righteous because of their faith. God proclaimed this good news to Abraham long ago when he said, “All nations will be blessed through you.” So all who put their faith in Christ share the same blessing Abraham received because of his faith. But those who depend on the law to make them right with God are under his curse, for the Scriptures say, “Cursed is everyone who does not observe and obey all the commands that are written in God’s Book of the Law.” So it is clear that no one can be made right with God by trying to keep the law. For the Scriptures say, “It is through faith that a righteous person has life.” This way of faith is very different from the way of law, which says, “It is through obeying the law that a person has life.” But Christ has rescued us from the curse pronounced by the law. When he was hung on the cross, he took upon himself the curse for our wrongdoing. For it is written in the Scriptures, “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.” Through Christ Jesus, God has blessed the Gentiles with the same blessing he promised to Abraham, so that we who are believers might receive the promised Holy Spirit through faith.
Hebrews 11:4-7,13,31,39-40
It was by faith that Abel brought a more acceptable offering to God than Cain did. Abel’s offering gave evidence that he was a righteous man, and God showed his approval of his gifts. Although Abel is long dead, he still speaks to us by his example of faith. It was by faith that Enoch was taken up to heaven without dying—“he disappeared, because God took him.” For before he was taken up, he was known as a person who pleased God. And it is impossible to please God without faith. Anyone who wants to come to him must believe that God exists and that he rewards those who sincerely seek him. It was by faith that Noah built a large boat to save his family from the flood. He obeyed God, who warned him about things that had never happened before. By his faith Noah condemned the rest of the world, and he received the righteousness that comes by faith. All these people died still believing what God had promised them. They did not receive what was promised, but they saw it all from a distance and welcomed it. They agreed that they were foreigners and nomads here on earth.

It was by faith that Rahab the prostitute was not destroyed with the people in her city who refused to obey God. For she had given a friendly welcome to the spies.

All these people earned a good reputation because of their faith, yet none of them received all that God had promised. For God had something better in mind for us, so that they would not reach perfection without us.

It is incorrect to state that salvation was only of the Jews.
Salvation is of God.
The Promised One came through the line of Israel as Savior of the world to all who hear his voice and believe.

“Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.” John 4:22 (KJV 1900) Many became Jews in OT times, and we were grafted into Israel as believers in Christ.

“Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did. But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men, And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man.” John 2:23–25 (KJV 1900)

 

[SavedByGrace]

Many became Jews in OT times, and we were grafted into Israel as believers in Christ.

what real evidence is there for this?

 

[Yeshua1]

“Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.” John 4:22 (KJV 1900) Many became Jews in OT times, and we were grafted into Israel as believers in Christ.

“Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did. But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men, And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man.” John 2:23–25 (KJV 1900)

Now both saved jews and Gentiles in Spiritual Israel, with both saved by same Lord Jesus!

 

[Yeshua1]

HO HUM!

This is ONLY possible, if Jesus Christ died for the ENTRIRE HUMAN RACE! God would have had to make provision in the Death of Jesus Christ, if He "desires ALL the human race" to be saved. Anything less, is INSINCERE!

He died for those he intended to get saved!

 

[Yeshua1]

what real evidence is there for this?

Believers in Christ in the OT?

 

[SavedByGrace]

He died for those he intended to get saved!

look at #81

 

[AustinC]

“Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.” John 4:22 (KJV 1900) Many became Jews in OT times, and we were grafted into Israel as believers in Christ.

“Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did. But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men, And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man.” John 2:23–25 (KJV 1900)

You seem to misunderstand what "salvation is of the Jews" means.
It means that the Promised Redeemer is from the line of Israel. Those who had faith in the Promised One were justified by that faith.
Romans 4:3-16 best expresses this truth.
For the Scriptures tell us, “Abraham believed God, and God counted him as righteous because of his faith.” When people work, their wages are not a gift, but something they have earned. But people are counted as righteous, not because of their work, but because of their faith in God who forgives sinners. David also spoke of this when he described the happiness of those who are declared righteous without working for it: “Oh, what joy for those whose disobedience is forgiven, whose sins are put out of sight. Yes, what joy for those whose record the Lord has cleared of sin.” Now, is this blessing only for the Jews, or is it also for uncircumcised Gentiles? Well, we have been saying that Abraham was counted as righteous by God because of his faith. But how did this happen? Was he counted as righteous only after he was circumcised, or was it before he was circumcised? Clearly, God accepted Abraham before he was circumcised! Circumcision was a sign that Abraham already had faith and that God had already accepted him and declared him to be righteous—even before he was circumcised. So Abraham is the spiritual father of those who have faith but have not been circumcised. They are counted as righteous because of their faith. And Abraham is also the spiritual father of those who have been circumcised, but only if they have the same kind of faith Abraham had before he was circumcised. Clearly, God’s promise to give the whole earth to Abraham and his descendants was based not on his obedience to God’s law, but on a right relationship with God that comes by faith. If God’s promise is only for those who obey the law, then faith is not necessary and the promise is pointless. For the law always brings punishment on those who try to obey it. (The only way to avoid breaking the law is to have no law to break!) So the promise is received by faith. It is given as a free gift. And we are all certain to receive it, whether or not we live according to the law of Moses, if we have faith like Abraham’s. For Abraham is the father of all who believe.

 

[AustinC]

HO HUM!

This is ONLY possible, if Jesus Christ died for the ENTRIRE HUMAN RACE! God would have had to make provision in the Death of Jesus Christ, if He "desires ALL the human race" to be saved. Anything less, is INSINCERE!

Only in your mind is it insincere. Moreso, you dare judge God and tell him he is a liar when he openly tells you of his election. Exactly how do you expect to stand before our King when you have called Him insincere in his word.
sbg, just because your finite mind cannot comprehend God's desire and God's elective grace, it does not therefore make God insincere. It does, however, make you ignorant of God's work in redemption.
More than enough scripture has been provided to you. At this point you have obstinantly stuck your feet in the ground and even dare to call your King insincere.
May God have mercy on you.

 

[1689Dave]

You seem to misunderstand what "salvation is of the Jews" means.
It means that the Promised Redeemer is from the line of Israel. Those who had faith in the Promised One were justified by that faith.
Romans 4:3-16 best expresses this truth.
For the Scriptures tell us, “Abraham believed God, and God counted him as righteous because of his faith.” When people work, their wages are not a gift, but something they have earned. But people are counted as righteous, not because of their work, but because of their faith in God who forgives sinners. David also spoke of this when he described the happiness of those who are declared righteous without working for it: “Oh, what joy for those whose disobedience is forgiven, whose sins are put out of sight. Yes, what joy for those whose record the Lord has cleared of sin.” Now, is this blessing only for the Jews, or is it also for uncircumcised Gentiles? Well, we have been saying that Abraham was counted as righteous by God because of his faith. But how did this happen? Was he counted as righteous only after he was circumcised, or was it before he was circumcised? Clearly, God accepted Abraham before he was circumcised! Circumcision was a sign that Abraham already had faith and that God had already accepted him and declared him to be righteous—even before he was circumcised. So Abraham is the spiritual father of those who have faith but have not been circumcised. They are counted as righteous because of their faith. And Abraham is also the spiritual father of those who have been circumcised, but only if they have the same kind of faith Abraham had before he was circumcised. Clearly, God’s promise to give the whole earth to Abraham and his descendants was based not on his obedience to God’s law, but on a right relationship with God that comes by faith. If God’s promise is only for those who obey the law, then faith is not necessary and the promise is pointless. For the law always brings punishment on those who try to obey it. (The only way to avoid breaking the law is to have no law to break!) So the promise is received by faith. It is given as a free gift. And we are all certain to receive it, whether or not we live according to the law of Moses, if we have faith like Abraham’s. For Abraham is the father of all who believe.

All of the gentile converts became members of Israel, even today. So what's your beef?

 

[AustinC]

All of the gentile converts became members of Israel, even today. So what's your beef?

No they didn't. None of us are bound under the Mosaic Covenant. That covenant is done, no more. We are baptized into the New Covenant by the Holy Spirit.
My beef is that you sound like you have bought in to a Hebrew cult that teaches Christians are actually one of the twelve tribes of Israel.
I provided scripture that clearly shows your assertion is not established in the Church.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Only in your mind is it insincere. Moreso, you dare judge God and tell him he is a liar when he openly tells you of his election. Exactly how do you expect to stand before our King when you have called Him insincere in his word.
sbg, just because your finite mind cannot comprehend God's desire and God's elective grace, it does not therefore make God insincere. It does, however, make you ignorant of God's work in redemption.
More than enough scripture has been provided to you. At this point you have obstinantly stuck your feet in the ground and even dare to call your King insincere.
May God have mercy on you.

you don't seem to grasp the English language! Read again the OP, and see exactly WHAT I am talking about! It is BELIEF (FAITH), and UNBELIEF (FAITHLESS). That is it!

BELIEVE=NOT CONDEMNED
UNBELIEF=CONDEMNED

IF, as some argue, that the former is a "Gift" from God to the "elect" only, and they are thereby saved; HOW can those who do not have this "Gift" from God, be justly the latter, CONDEMNED, if they were not GIVEN this Saving Faith.

I am NOT questioning God or the Bible, but REFORMED THEOLOGY, which is WRONG!!!

 

[1689Dave]

No they didn't. None of us are bound under the Mosaic Covenant. That covenant is done, no more. We are baptized into the New Covenant by the Holy Spirit.
My beef is that you sound like you have bought in to a Hebrew cult that teaches Christians are actually one of the twelve tribes of Israel.
I provided scripture that clearly shows your assertion is not established in the Church.

Have you learned that Jesus is Israel revealed in the NT? And that the Church, His body, is also Israel? The disenfranchised Jews are in fact gentiles with only Jewish customs and a false Judaism?

 

[Reformed1689]

I question STUPID reformed theology!!!

No sir. You directly questioned God and what he says in Romans 9. You can't escape that. How dare you!

 

[SavedByGrace]

No sir. You directly questioned God and what he says in Romans 9. You can't escape that. How dare you!

man, you can't respond to the Scriptures in the OP, and the arguments that I have used; so you try to make false accusations against me! It is more honest to simply admit that you have no response, than to shoot in the dark!

 

[Iconoclast]

Brother, I seriously do not think that you really understand the Bible's Teaching of salvation! Your responses are SO FLAWED!

One of us is dead wrong!
I M pretty sure I know who it is,lol
you do a recap and blame God again.
You suggest I do not understand.
However, when we examine solid confessional teaching, the views I post are found there in scripture, yours....not so much

 

[SavedByGrace]

One of us is dead wrong!
I M pretty sure I know who it is,lol
you do a recap and blame God again.
You suggest I do not understand.
However, when we examine solid confessional teaching, the views I post are found there in scripture, yours....not so much

The only thing about your views is that they are CONTRADICTORY

 

[DaveXR650]

SBG. I just was on the Evangelical Arminian website. They even say that faith is a gift and a man won't have faith if left to himself. I think you are not just going against Calvinists but Arminian theology too. I'll look for the Pelagian website and then check back in.