Not at all.The only thing about your views is that they are CONTRADICTORY
Your failure to demonstrate that biblically is being noticed by everyone.
Your list of contradictions, is a list of what you do not understand
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Is Saving Faith A Gift?
- Thread starter SavedByGrace
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Your failure to demonstrate that biblically is being noticed by everyone.
Your list of contradictions, is a list of what you do not understand
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
Dude I don't get any of my theology from isms!
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
Well actually, you say so everytime you blame God for mans sin.If you say so
Calvinists do not do that.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
SBG,Man you do talk codswallop
I am prepared to take it wherever you want to go.
I prefer to help, but if you attack, I will easily defend what you are offering.
What you do not get is a biblical Calvinist has already considered your defective ideas and moved past them.
Have you ever attended a confessional church?
Without the bickering and contention that takes place here, it is Christ centered and missions minded, with a view to edify one another.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
here is a very simple question for you. do you believe that "repentance" is a gift from God only for the elect?
Of course, or they never would repent.
It is a package deal.
New heart, repentance, saving faith, sanctification...it is all or nothing.
God seeks and saves...Not tries and fails.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Calvinists are very good at denying their own doctrines. Cognitive Dissonance is their byword. The hoops they jump through to support their view are amazing. What they fail to do is treat the character of God with any respect. They have put God in the box called Calvinism and, how dare anyone question what they say.
If they were serious about seeking the truth they would just look at Christ Jesus as we find Him in the bible.
Calvinists may not say that but your theology sure does. You just refuse to see it, or more likely you see it but just decide to ignore the truth.
If they were serious about seeking the truth they would just look at Christ Jesus as we find Him in the bible.
Calvinists may not say that but your theology sure does. You just refuse to see it, or more likely you see it but just decide to ignore the truth.
Your post is of no value and only reveals your bias.
1689, you are attempting to lower God to be Israel. You are also, trying to take a spiritual analogy and make it a physical reality. Paul's letter to the Romans does not go to the position you are going.
Jesus is God. Jesus is King and High Priest. We are God's children, adopted from before the foundation of the world and revealed in these days. There are two things. Sheep and Goats.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
I take you back to your own words in # 19
God has commanded all men everywhere to repent.They do not want to.Acts17:30
It is clear from your own words, "They do not want to", that you regard "all men everywhere", as I do, meaning the entire human race, without exception. Again I ask, as God wants "all men everywhere to repent", which is the entire human race, then how could this refer only to "the elect"? Further, this verse also shows that "repentance" cannot be a "gift" only for the elect, as you yourself also agree that the words are not limited! If, it is argued that "repentance" refers only to "the elect", then how could God command something from those who are the "non elect", that He himself has not made possible for them to do?
Can you see the grave error in what this means, if taken in the "reformed" sense? You contradict yourself!
DaveXR650
Well-Known Member
You actually have a point there. I don't find the 5 points TULIP entirely satisfactory and the old fundamentalists said they were wrong on baptism, they were wrong on the Lord's supper. Why listen to them? But the fact is we all systematize what we know, even if it's just on our own. I have found Calvinism to be the best way to try to organize Bible truth. When you read a verse and are thinking in moving in a novel direction it is helpful to have a check or a second opinion. And some of the posts around here prove that better than anything.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
I just can never understand how you guys keep on using "Calvinism", when it is clear that John Calvin himself, did not believe that Jesus only died for the elect?
Calvin's own words on
John 1:29;
“Who taketh away the sin of the world. He uses the word sin in the singular number, for any kind of iniquity; as if he had said, that every kind of unrighteousness which alienates men from God is taken away by Christ. And when he says, the sin Of The World, he extends this favor indiscriminately to the whole human race; that the Jews might not think that he had been sent to them alone. But hence we infer that the whole world is involved in the same condemnation; and that as all men without exception are guilty of unrighteousness before God, they need to be reconciled to him. John the Baptist, therefore, by speaking generally of the sin of the world, intended to impress upon us the conviction of our own misery, and to exhort us to seek the remedy. Now our duty is, to embrace the benefit which is offered to all, that each of us may be convinced that there is nothing to hinder him from obtaining reconciliation in Christ, provided that he comes to him by the guidance of faith.”
John 3:16;
“That whosoever believeth on him may not perish. It is a remarkable commendation of faith, that it frees us from everlasting destruction. For he intended expressly to state that, though we appear to have been born to death, undoubted deliverance is offered to us by the faith of Christ; and, therefore, that we ought not to fear death, which otherwise hangs over us. And he has employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life, and to cut off every excuse from unbelievers. Such is also the import of the term World, which he formerly used; for though nothing will be found in the world that is worthy of the favor of God, yet he shows himself to be reconciled to the whole world, when he invites all men without exception to the faith of Christ, which is nothing else than an entrance into life”
Romans 5:18;
“He makes this favor common to all, because it is propounded to all, and not because it is in reality extended to all; for though Christ suffered for the sins of the whole world, and is offered through God's benignity indiscriminately to all, yet all do not receive him”
No "Limited Death" of Jesus Christ for the "elect" only here!
DaveXR650
Well-Known Member
Because "Calvinism" is a word that most people agree has a certain meaning and when we say it others know what we mean. You did, or you wouldn't have posted what you did. Does Calvin say anything about whether faith is a gift of grace or do you bring it on your own? I am glad you're a fan of Calvin, we may be getting somewhere.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
I am "fan" of no human! I take truth as long it is Bible Truth. "Calvinism" is a very distorted and confused system, which even its own theologians and thinkers never seem to know what the are really on about!
Sigh...the observations made by Calvin and by millions who came before are unbiased observations of scripture. They don't add theories of free will into the equation. When God says he elects, we believe. When God says he has mercy on whom he wills...we believe.
What is disturbed and corrupt is the human demand to be in control of God by demanding that human will be the center of salvation.
Now, you can continue to tell us that you call the shots and God takes second fiddle, or you can repent of your pride and bow to God's supreme will over you and everything in creation.
Which is it? Are you going to keep lashing out and fighting or are you going to rest and let God be God?
SH,
You have yet to put forth anything worthy of discussion.
You and the anti cal posse just keep chanting, Calvinism bad, free will man centered theology..good.
God does not want....God commands all men everywhere to repent.
Adams sin caused death.
Man died spiritually that day.
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