Isaiah 9:10 - The Harbinger - God's Judgment on America?

[Zaac]

Let me go on record here agreeing with my brother. Let's check it our in 4-5 years.

God did not make an Israel like covenant with America - end of application 'coincidences' or not.

Can we learn from past errors? Sure.
Can any nation boldly claim to be equal to God's people Israel? No.

The book does not say that God made a similar covenant with America. It highlights the FACT that America is doing the EXACT same thing that Israel did under similar circumstances.

And the outcome will be the same.

God doesn't align this many things for no reason. He's trying to tell the United States something and just like Israel, we're not listening.

So may be the book will end up in the recycle heap. That doesn't make what is being pointed out any less true.

Read the book. You'll be astonished at the accuracy with which the United States is doing and saying the EXACT same things that Israel said before they were conquered by the Assyrians, the people of modern day Iraq.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

The book does not say that God made a similar covenant with America.

In the interview I saw with the author, linked above, he indeed says that America did establish a covenant with God.

 

[Zaac]

In the interview I saw with the author, linked above, he indeed says that America did establish a covenant with God.

I don't think he mentions any such covenant in the book. In the book he says

"America was the most blessed nation on earth, its blessings shielded by a powerful hedge of national protection. As its founders had foretold, if the nation followed the ways of God, it would be blessed not only with prosperity and power but also with peace and security. But if America turned away from God, it's protection would be removed".

The United States is following the EXACT same path as ancient Israel covenant or not. And the result will be the same.

There is no escaping that the EXACT harbingers that were present before Israel's demise have manifested themselves in the United States...WORD FOR WORD.

We had a breach in our national security by terrorists just like they did. And we responded with the same defiance that they did, not acknowledging that it was obviously God's judgment.

In face any one who said that the nation was under God's judgment received an onslaught of "how do you know, this stuff happens all the time, God doesn't judge nations anymore, etc..."

Yet in defiance, just as Israel did, our leaders responded word for word the same way their leaders responded.

Where the bricks of the building fell, we vowed to build bigger and stronger with hewn stone just like Israel did.

Where the sycamore was uprooted, we vowed to replant stronger cedars in the exact same place.

John Edwards came back on the 3rd anniversary of 9/11 and gave a speech using Isaiah 9:10.

The Senate majority leader had given a similar speech about Isaiah 9/10 shortly after 9/11.

They were pronouncing God's judgment against this country and didn't even know it.

And they did it using the exact same defiant words that Israel used.

God's judgment IS upon us and the end result will be the same as Israel.

 

[LadyEagle]

Well said.

I've read the book, watched the DVD, and have done some further research on the Internet. Additionally, our church has done a Bible study based on the book/dvd.

Whether reading this book or reading the scriptures, it's sad that so few learn from history. The more I study the Bible, the more parallels between today and yesterday become apparent. It seems that any parallel brought up for discussion is greeted with naysayers. Which is, in itself, another form of history repeating itself, right here on BB and elsewhere.

Today, my only question is how many more times will history repeat itself before God calls a halt to the repetitions? Only He knows the answer to that now. One glorious sunrise and we'll all know the answer, too.

I just loaned the DVD to my pastor.

The United States is following the EXACT same path as ancient Israel covenant or not. And the result will be the same.

There is no escaping that the EXACT harbingers that were present before Israel's demise have manifested themselves in the United States...WORD FOR WORD.

Zaac, well said, excellent posts. Sad, isn't it?

 

[saturneptune]

I don't think he mentions any such covenant in the book. In the book he says

The United States is following the EXACT same path as ancient Israel covenant or not. And the result will be the same.

There is no escaping that the EXACT harbingers that were present before Israel's demise have manifested themselves in the United States...WORD FOR WORD.

We had a breach in our national security by terrorists just like they did. And we responded with the same defiance that they did, not acknowledging that it was obviously God's judgment.

In face any one who said that the nation was under God's judgment received an onslaught of "how do you know, this stuff happens all the time, God doesn't judge nations anymore, etc..."

Yet in defiance, just as Israel did, our leaders responded word for word the same way their leaders responded.

Where the bricks of the building fell, we vowed to build bigger and stronger with hewn stone just like Israel did.

Where the sycamore was uprooted, we vowed to replant stronger cedars in the exact same place.

John Edwards came back on the 3rd anniversary of 9/11 and gave a speech using Isaiah 9:10.

The Senate majority leader had given a similar speech about Isaiah 9/10 shortly after 9/11.

They were pronouncing God's judgment against this country and didn't even know it.

And they did it using the exact same defiant words that Israel used.

God's judgment IS upon us and the end result will be the same as Israel.

Isaiah 9:10 is in reference to the nation of Israel 2500 years ago being defiant to the Lord in reponse to His judgement. That is what the verse is. You have no idea if God's judgement is upon the United States or not. We certainly deserve it, but you do not know the mind of God, His purposes, or His plan. God is a little deeper than your parallels of history. If He chooses to judge us, the He will. If He chooses to let us suffer the natural consequences of our self centered nation, then that is what will happen.

All you do is read summaries of secular books, go to web sites, copy and paste. The bottom line is you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[Zaac]

I just loaned the DVD to my pastor.




Zaac, well said, excellent posts. Sad, isn't it?

LadyE it really is sad and just like the folks rejected Christ as Messiah by ignoring all the fulfilled prophecies, folks are likewise missing the obvious by ignoring these prophecies again being fulfilled by the United States just as they had been by Israel.

All I can say is that some folks need to pick up the book. You couldn't make this stuff up. There is no way, other than the supernatural hand of God to get this stuff to occur the way it did on the dates that it did( the very same dates that they did for Israel) and the response be the EXACT same as Israel's response.

 

[Zaac]

Isaiah 9:10 is in reference to the nation of Israel 2500 years ago being defiant to the Lord in reponse to His judgement. That is what the verse is. You have no idea if God's judgement is upon the United States or not.

YOU may not have any idea, but I certainly do. And the things outlined in this book in accordance with Scripture show that the country is under God's judgment just as Israel was before it was destroyed by the Assyrians.

We certainly deserve it, but you do not know the mind of God, His purposes, or His plan.

Again, YOU may not know. But I do. I got His revelation so I know His mind, His purposes and His plan. And it's all playing out, step by step AGAIN just as it did for Israel.

One of the primary reasons the country IS under God's judgment is every time HE tries to tell/show us something to turn us back to Him, we willfully ignore that it's the exact same thing He did with Israel before He let her be destroyed.

And rather than GOD'S people sounding the clarion horn and begging folks to turn back to God, we act like what is taking place is just your run of the mill, ain't never happened before occurrence.

And because we WILLFULLY ignore His warnings and have not called the country to repentance and turning back to Him, the next calamity quickly approaches.

God is a little deeper than your parallels of history. If He chooses to judge us, the He will. If He chooses to let us suffer the natural consequences of our self centered nation, then that is what will happen.

God is also a lot simpler than your supposed erudition. But like I said, willful ignoring.

All you do is read summaries of secular books, go to web sites, copy and paste. The bottom line is you have no idea what you are talking about.

Yes indeed. I don't have to know what I'm talking about. I'll just tell you what God's word says and let Him speak for Himself. And if you choose to ignore it, no skin off my nose. Just a repeat of what the Israelites CHOSE to do.

But in my "not knowing" everything I have said, has come to pass. according to your "knowing" over the past few months, Mitt Romney is the President-elect.

How'd that knowing work out for ya?:smilewinkgrin:

 

[saturneptune]

How'd that knowing work out for ya?:smilewinkgrin:

I know one thing for sure. You are a troll. You use Scripture in a flippant and disrespectful manner in order to get a rise out of posters. BB rules prevent me from saying what I really think.

 

[TadQueasy]

I know one thing for sure. You are a troll. You use Scripture in a flippant and disrespectful manner in order to get a rise out of posters. BB rules prevent me from saying what I really think.

I wish we had a like button here on the Baptist Board.
Amazing the arrogance displayed by Zaac.

 

[saturneptune]

I wish we had a like button here on the Baptist Board.
Amazing the arrogance displayed by Zaac.

Better words than I used, and much more gracious that what is going through my mind. I lost count of the number of times this individual told me and numerous other people either directly or indirectly we were headed to hell for voting for a Mormon.

 

[Zaac]

I know one thing for sure. You are a troll. You use Scripture in a flippant and disrespectful manner in order to get a rise out of posters. BB rules prevent me from saying what I really think.

As I suspected. When what you have been shown to NOT know is put on display, all you can do is run to the personal attacks.

Classy. But it's your SOP.

 

[Zaac]

I wish we had a like button here on the Baptist Board.
Amazing the arrogance displayed by Zaac.

If I agreed with what you wanted me to agree with it probably wouldn't be arrogant anymore.:smilewinkgrin:

29 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. 30 And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our forefathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31 So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Fill up, then, the measure of the sin of your forefathers!

33 “You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? 34 Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. 35 And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.

37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing. 38 Look, your house is left to you desolate. 39 For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord. Matthew 23:29-39

But then again, I have no problem being considered arrogant for delivering God's truth. People who boldly proclaim God's truth with no wiggle room to accommodate man's "opinion" are often called arrogant.

So thank you for the blessing.:thumbs:

 

[saturneptune]

As I suspected. When what you have been shown to NOT know is put on display, all you can do is run to the personal attacks.

Classy. But it's your SOP.

There is not one letter of my post that is not truthful.

 

[LadyEagle]

Please go back on topic and refrain from personal attacks. Thank you. :flower:

 

[Eric B]

"America was the most blessed nation on earth, its blessings shielded by a powerful hedge of national protection. As its founders had foretold, if the nation followed the ways of God, it would be blessed not only with prosperity and power but also with peace and security. But if America turned away from God, it's protection would be removed".

This assumes that that promise made to Israel (peace and safety for obedience) transfers to America, and it forgets all the other people and nations that did evil and still prospered, and that did good and suffered (including NT saints). So it suggests God is working this particular covenant exclusively with America now, and it apparently supersedes the Gospel, which established that none did good, and all sinned and deserved death. That our "prosperity" was a reward for obedience is also highly questionable, unless one takes the position (which I've seen promoted here from time to time) that the victims of colonialism and slavery were being punished for their paganism with the "chosen" people given the spoils —again, like Israel and the Cannanites of old. (And Jews weren't looked on favorably either in those times). So that would shatter the whole premise. The nation deserved judgment all along (we don't get to decide which sins God judges or excuses as not sin), just as every other nation did, and just as Romans 3 teaches.

So I'm surprised at him for spouting this virtually 'reconstructionist' (minus the political activism) message. He always seemed to have a much better handle on scripture than that. Again, it's like Camping and those others, but without a definite date. (So it will never be totally falsified; it can always be said that this "judgment" is simply being delayed more).

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

This assumes that that promise made to Israel (peace and safety for obedience) transfers to America, and it forgets all the other people and nations that did evil and still prospered, and that did good and suffered (including NT saints). So it suggests God is working this particular covenant exclusively with America now, and it apparently supersedes the Gospel, which established that none did good, and all sinned and deserved death. That our "prosperity" was a reward for obedience is also highly questionable, unless one takes the position (which I've seen promoted here from time to time) that the victims of colonialism and slavery were being punished for their paganism with the "chosen" people given the spoils —again, like Israel and the Cannanites of old. (And Jews weren't looked on favorably either in those times). So that would shatter the whole premise. The nation deserved judgment all along (we don't get to decide which sins God judges or excuses as not sin), just as every other nation did, and just as Romans 3 teaches.

So I'm surprised at him for spouting this virtually 'reconstructionist' (minus the political activism) message. He always seemed to have a much better handle on scripture than that. Again, it's like Camping and those others, but without a definite date. (So it will never be totally falsified; it can always be said that this "judgment" is simply being delayed more).

Insert 'like' button here

 

[Zaac]

This assumes that that promise made to Israel (peace and safety for obedience) transfers to America, and it forgets all the other people and nations that did evil and still prospered, and that did good and suffered (including NT saints).

No it doesn't. That's just YOUR assumption. :laugh: The promise made to Israel was with Israel. But you guys act as if there is no precedent for the PRINCIPLES of God's word to be transferable to all.

The Ten Commandments were also given to Israel. Do we ignore that we, like Israel, are called to keep those commandments?

The word of God is ALIVE. It did not die after the events took place. As NONE of the stuff in the Bible happened to us, we MUST look at the principles of what took place and the application to our everyday existence or otherwise, it serves no purpose to even have the word.

So it suggests God is working this particular covenant exclusively with America now, and it apparently supersedes the Gospel, which established that none did good, and all sinned and deserved death.

What it suggests is that George Washington and those who founded the country profoundly understood Scripture and what the possibilities were for the nation that dedicated itself to keeping GOD first in the manner in which God had intended for Israel to do.

And on April 30, 1789 after his inauguration in New York City, the nation's THEN capital , George Washington addressed the first joint session of Congress and committed in prayer the United States of America's future to GOD.

The nation's leader consecrated the US unto the Lord just as King Solomon had done with Israel.

And where did this take place? In ST. Paul's Chapel right across from what is Ground Zero. And the actual land of Ground Zero is part of a field that used to belong to St. Paul's.

Yes, the modern day Assyrians attacked the United States in the same place in which George Washington consecrated her unto God. Coincidence? Nope.

The Assyrians struck the Temple Mount of Israel in King Solomon's day the exact same way. The Temple and the nation of Israel were dedicated to God by King Solomon. It was the place of Israel's national consecration just as ST. Paul's Chapel/Ground Zero was the place of the United States national consecration.

And as with Israel, the striking of the place in which the nation was consecrated is a sign that God has removed His hand of protection and allowed judgment to begin.

And one by one, and using the exact same words that the Israelites did after the Temple Mount was destroyed, America and her leaders are doing and saying THE EXACT SAME THINGS in defiance to God.

That our "prosperity" was a reward for obedience is also highly questionable,

Why unless you question the precedence of God's word of what He does when a nation is consecrated unto Him.

unless one takes the position (which I've seen promoted here from time to time) that the victims of colonialism and slavery were being punished for their paganism with the "chosen" people given the spoils —again, like Israel and the Cannanites of old. (And Jews weren't looked on favorably either in those times). So that would shatter the whole premise.

You're talking apples and oranges now as NONE of that brought about modern day Assyrians destroying the spot of the nation's consecration.

The nation deserved judgment all along (we don't get to decide which sins God judges or excuses as not sin), just as every other nation did, and just as Romans 3 teaches

.

Again, apples and oranges. The nation has never so fully turned away from God. And the nations place of consecration has never before been struck by "outsiders".

So I'm surprised at him for spouting this virtually 'reconstructionist' (minus the political activism) message. He always seemed to have a much better handle on scripture than that. Again, it's like Camping and those others, but without a definite date. (So it will never be totally falsified; it can always be said that this "judgment" is simply being delayed more).

Looking at the principles of Scripture being transferable and applicable to ALL, the United States is doing EXACTLY what Israel did when the Temple Mount was destroyed. And unless we turn back to God, the end result will be the same.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

The United States is no more special in God's eyes that any other country. It is presumptuous to think that George Washington could invoke God's blessing on the nation in the same way that God established a covenant with Abraham. Only God can institute a covenant - no man, not even Abraham, had that power. Surely the new president of a secular state did not have any more power than Abraham, father of God's chosen people did.

Are they any church age principles for God blessing secular nations?

Apples and legos.

 

[Jack Matthews]

The nation has never so fully turned away from God.

You don't know your American history very well, if you can make a statement like that.

The covenant between God and Israel was initiated by God. There's no way George Washington could simply, by prayer, invoke a similar one without God's approval or offer.

 

[InTheLight]

America and her leaders are doing and saying THE EXACT SAME THINGS in defiance to God.

Where in the Bible does it describe the interest rate of the currency of Israel being adjusted in defiance of the consequences of the Assyrian attack?


Quote from author Jonathan Cahn:
In the days after 9/11, the Federal Reserve slashed the base interest rate in an attempt to defy the consequences of the attacks. That action put us on the path leading to the collapse of the American economy seven years later.

I wouldn't characterize the recession of 2007-2009 as the "economic collapse of the U.S."

I haven't read the book, but if the message is that America needs to repent to avoid further judgment I will simply say that the call to repentance has gone out before, first by John the Baptist, then by Jesus himself, then by the apostles. It is a given. But now we need a sensational book to actually achieve that purpose? I think this guy is trying to sell books.

I also agree with others that object to substituting America for Israel as the only nations being blessed by God.