Israel and the Fig Tree

[agedman]

There are a number of double entities to consider -

1. The descendants of Abraham - believers in the LORD & those who did not believe, both scattered among the Gentiles, believers uniting with believing Gentiles to form the Church of Jesus Christ.
2. The Jews of the first century - Jewish leaders who rejected Jesus & Jewish people who received John's baptism & followed Jesus.
3. Jews including some Gentiles who welcomed Jesus into Jerusalem & those who rejected him & demanded his death.
4. Jews & Proselytes who welcomed the Apostolic Gospel from Pentecost onwards & those who rejected the Gospel & persecuted the Christians.
5. Religious Jews who respect the Torah, who are concerned for justice for the Palestinian people & godless Jews who focus on the state of Israel.
6. Christians who believe that the Gospel has always been open & free to Jews (and of course to all sinners of all nations) & Christians who believe that the Jews have been excluded from the Gospel until Jesus returns for rapture/tribulation/millennium etc.

The idea that God has been punishing all the Jews of 50 generations for the sins of one generation (this generation, that perished in AD 70) is repugnant to the God of justice & to the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.



The single scheme that is not ultimately racist and biased against Jews, Muslims, Hispanics, whites, blacks, Asians .... is - the Christian Gospel - there is no respect of persons with God.

2 Chr. 19:7 Wherefore now let the fear of the LORD be upon you; take heed and do it: for there is no iniquity with the LORD our God, nor respect of persons, nor taking of gifts.

Romans 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;​

Either Paul, in writing Romans 11, is stating facts concerning national political Israel in which he served in the interest of the temple rulers as Saul, or Paul was delusional perhaps as the result of the many beatings and deprivations he endured.

Are you really going to attempt to present Romans 2 as discrediting Romans 11 that clearly declares God most certainly has a plan for national/political Israel? Was this not exactly the question Paul presented in the opening verses of Romans 11?

There is a single Biblically accepted view of the future. It is that found from chapter 19 and following in Revelation.

 

[agedman]

Jesus taught against the physical millennial Kingdom the Jews looked for. That is in part why they killed him.

No, He taught the coming of such, not that it was then, or now as proven by the most absolutely clear statements of Revelation 19 and following.

When giving the example, believers are to pray, “Thy Kingdom come...” not for a current kingdom, but one yet future to come.

Therefore, most certainly Jesus DID teach of a future literal physical millennial Kingdom.

 

[agedman]

Are there any "Preterists" that you know of posting here?

Do you think we are currently in the millennium?

 

[Van]

It won't happen til the "beast" is in power & the "great trib" occurs.

However, for each of us, His coming is no farther than THE NEXT HEARTBEAT...

Many Dispensationalists go with the two event return of Christ, first the rapture event where we meet Christ in the air, and second where Christ sets foot on the mount. Others of course hold differing views.

 

[Alan Gross]

Sir, I strongly recommend you read the Revelation CLOSELY, beginning with Ch. 1 !!

I recommend Noone read The Book of Revelation, begining with Chapter 1, as if God Intended The SEVEN VISIONS Stated to be 'read chronologically'.

If a chronological reading is undertaken, as if God wants us to Understand that we must "observe a sequence of events', that sequence doesn't exist.

It doesn't exist in Genesis 1 to 3, The Kings, Chronicles, and Samuel's, or in Daniel, or by reading the Four Gospels straight through, and Revelation is not the first Book God Wrote.

There are Seven VISIONS,
with Seven ASCENTIONS, or First Advents, and SEVEN SECOND COMING in JUDGMENT.

Have you seen them?

All of "The First Advents"
depict "The First Advent"

and all of "The Second Comings"
depict "The Second Coming".

Each VISION HAS ONE of EACH.

THAT is The Divine Interpretation structure of The Book of Revelation.

You need to see it.

I've got some things to show them somewhere.

More Than Conquerors: An Interpretation of the Book of Revelation
Book by William Hendriksen is the go-to CLASSIC.

Presently, there are several exceptional works presenting the Herminutic that will get you what God wants you to Understand.

Otherwise, people are just completely making stuff up AND THEY KNOW IT.

All God's children need an introduction of the 'design' of Revelation, IMO.

This link is rushing ahead and giving you Kim Riddalbarger's first Section of Revelation.

You can find his series and it is good because he is a 'scribe', in The Kingdom of The Son.

This is NOT what you need, first, but where is my Hendriksen collection of Gold? Looking...


9.1.1a “THE TIME IS NEAR” Pt. 1 in Section 1 of REVELATION Chapter 1:1 – 3:22 / “JESUS CHRIST in the MIDST of the LAMP-STANDS.”

 

[1689Dave]

Do you think we are currently in the millennium?

There is no Millennium. It is a Jewish fable that Christ refuted by teaching a spiritual kingdom only in the Gospels.

 

[robycop3]

Please consider the spiritual nature of the Kingdom:

“And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” (Matthew 3:2) (KJV 1900)

“And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.” (Matthew 11:12) (KJV 1900)

“Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.” (Matthew 16:28) (KJV 1900)

“Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.” (1 Corinthians 15:50)

“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” (John 3:3) (KJV 1900)

“Jesus answered, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born of water and spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.” (John 3:5)

“Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.” (John 18:36) (KJV 1900)

“And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:” (Luke 17:20) (KJV 1900)

“Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.” (Luke 17:21) (KJV 1900)

“But if I cast out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has already overtaken you.” (Luke 11:20)

“because we are not looking at what can be seen but at what cannot be seen. For what can be seen is temporary, but what cannot be seen is eternal.” (2 Corinthians 4:18)

“Now when the people saw the miraculous sign that Jesus performed, they began to say to one another, “This is certainly the Prophet who is to come into the world.” Then Jesus, because he knew they were going to come and seize him by force to make him king, withdrew again up the mountainside alone.” (John 6:14–15)

“He delivered us from the power of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of the Son he loves,” (Colossians 1:13)

“When Jesus saw that he answered intelligently, He said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And no one dared to question Him any longer.” (Mark 12:34) (HCSB)

“for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit.” (Romans 14:17) (HCSB)

AT THAT TIME the KOG was spiritual, and still is. But it WILL be physical, as Scripture says. WHY DO YOU KEEP DENYING THIS WHEN IT'S IN PLAIN SCRIPTURE ?????????????????

 

[robycop3]

There is no Millennium. It is a Jewish fable that Christ refuted by teaching a spiritual kingdom only in the Gospels.

SCRIPTURE says otherwise ! !

 

[robycop3]

Many Dispensationalists go with the two event return of Christ, first the rapture event where we meet Christ in the air, and second where Christ sets foot on the mount. Others of course hold differing views.

Jesus won't come to earth in the rapture. HE will call US to HIMSELF.

 

[1689Dave]

SCRIPTURE says otherwise ! !

The Millennium is an old Pharisee doctrine Christ refuted in the gospels. Those who would rather walk by sight than by faith adopted it and tried to "Christianize" it.

 

[Van]

Jesus won't come to earth in the rapture. HE will call US to HIMSELF.

I think that is what I said.

 

[Alan Gross]

There is no Millennium. It is a Jewish fable that Christ refuted by teaching a spiritual kingdom only in the Gospels.

I have often wondered why a Bible Believer would ever have the word, 'Millennium', in their vocabulary.

Where did that word come from?

I don't want to know.

I don't care.

It is a meaningless, ridiculous, irrational word, for any Bible Believer.

 

[Alan Gross]

At the beginning of The Book of Revelation,
John is "in The Spirit"....

John is being Given Revelation, in at the beginning of The Book of Revelation, IN A VISION, also, right?

There are SEVEN VISIONS.

EACH VISION SPANS A TIME PERIOD
from JESUS FIRST COMING
to JESUS SECOND COMING.

See if you can see where:

The First Coming of Christ
is mentioned in 1:5:
...

"And from Jesus Christ,

WHO

is The Faithful Witness,

and

The First Begotten

of the dead,

and

The Prince of

the Kings of the earth.

Unto Him that Loved us,

and

Washed us from our sins

in His Own Blood"


THEN WHERE:

The Second Coming

of Christ:

is mentioned

in this Section 1 of 7

found in Revelation 1:7:

"Behold, He comes with clouds;
and
every eye will see Him,
and
they also who pierced Him:
and
all tribes of the earth
will wail because of Him.
Even so, Amen."

THAT IS THE END of THE WORLD,
in REVELATION 1:7.

The First Section concerns
"Christ in the Midst of the Lampstands"
( Revelation 1:1 - 3:22).

...

THEN THE SECTION SECTION
BEGINS by SHOWING:

Jesus Christ's First Coming,

in Revelation 5:5,6;

"And one of the elders
said to me,
Weep not:
behold,
The Lion of the tribe of Juda,
The Root of David,
has Prevailed
to Open the Book,
and
to Loose
the seven seals thereof."

"And I beheld, and, see,
in the middle of the Throne
and
of the four beasts,
and
in the middle of the elders,
Stood a Lamb
as it had been Slain,
having seven horns
and seven eyes,
which are
the seven Spirits of God
sent forth into all the Earth."


THEN SEE IF YOU CAN SEE:

in Revelation 6:17
& Revelation 7:16,17;
later in this same Second Section
of Seven
'Groups of Chapters',

WHERE IT IS DESCRIBING
THE END of THE WORLD, AGAIN,

ONLY IN MORE DEPTH of MEANING and......

R E V E L A T I O N .....

EVENTS in The Second 'Section'
or SECOND VISION ASSOCIATED

with

Christ's Second Coming

AND

THE END of THE WORLD

are in:

Revelation 6:17;

"Because
The Great Day of His Wrath
is Come;
and who
shall be able to stand?"

&
in Revelation 7:16,17;

"They will hunger no more,
neither thirst any more;
neither shall the sun
light on them,
nor any heat.

Because the Lamb
which is in
the middle of The Throne
Will Feed them,
and
Will Lead them
to Living Fountains of Waters:
and
God Will Wipe Away
all tears from their eyes."

The Second Section
concerns
"The Vision of Heaven
and the Seals"
(Revelation 4:1 - 7:17).

...

Did you just see "TWO FIRST ADVENTS"
&
"TWO ENDS of THE WORLD" RECORDED?

THERE ARE FIVE MORE in The Book of Revelation,

and FIVE MORE VISIONS.

...

ALL SEVEN VISIONS SPAN
"OUR PRESENT INNER-ADVENTAL AGE".

From Jesus' FIRST ADVENT
until

"THE END of THE WORLD",
AT JESUS SECOND ADVENT.


Jesus is Coming and Prophecy CAN BE TAUGHT
and UNDERSTOOD, for CERTAIN,
BEYOND ANY SHADOW of a DOUBT.

I know we won't take Matthew 13 and 'construct a sequence of events' straight down that Chapter, so it IS O.K., to not do that in Revelation when God has Given us this Structure, for HIS ONE DIVINE INTERPRETATION.

 

[agedman]

There is no Millennium. It is a Jewish fable that Christ refuted by teaching a spiritual kingdom only in the Gospels.

Then you don’t believe the OT prophets nor John, for beginning with the prophets, the King rules in the physical kingdom John shows is a thousand years, and on throughout eternity.

And I thought you held the authority of Scriptures in the most conservative and literal ways.

Hmmmm.

 

[agedman]

The Millennium is an old Pharisee doctrine Christ refuted in the gospels. Those who would rather walk by sight than by faith adopted it and tried to "Christianize" it.

Really?

You actually have proof of Christ refuting the very words He gave such prophets as Ezekiel?

What of that final temple that no previous temple dimensions fit?

There is NO temple in the new earth and heaven, so when did Ezekiel get it wrong?

Seems you are the one who are “Christianizing” rather than taking statement of Scripture as literal as possible.

Do you not completely bring dispute upon the whole when you, as Thomas Jefferson did with a pen knife, cut out that which you don’t happen to agree.

 

[agedman]

I recommend Noone read The Book of Revelation, begining with Chapter 1, as if God Intended The SEVEN VISIONS Stated to be 'read chronologically'.

If a chronological reading is undertaken, as if God wants us to Understand that we must "observe a sequence of events', that sequence doesn't exist.

It doesn't exist in Genesis 1 to 3, The Kings, Chronicles, and Samuel's, or in Daniel, or by reading the Four Gospels straight through, and Revelation is not the first Book God Wrote.

There are Seven VISIONS,
with Seven ASCENTIONS, or First Advents, and SEVEN SECOND COMING in JUDGMENT.

Have you seen them?

All of "The First Advents"
depict "The First Advent"

and all of "The Second Comings"
depict "The Second Coming".

Each VISION HAS ONE of EACH.

THAT is The Divine Interpretation structure of The Book of Revelation.

You need to see it.

I've got some things to show them somewhere.

More Than Conquerors: An Interpretation of the Book of Revelation
Book by William Hendriksen is the go-to CLASSIC.

Presently, there are several exceptional works presenting the Herminutic that will get you what God wants you to Understand.

Otherwise, people are just completely making stuff up AND THEY KNOW IT.

All God's children need an introduction of the 'design' of Revelation, IMO.

This link is rushing ahead and giving you Kim Riddalbarger's first Section of Revelation.

You can find his series and it is good because he is a 'scribe', in The Kingdom of The Son.

This is NOT what you need, first, but where is my Hendriksen collection of Gold? Looking...


9.1.1a “THE TIME IS NEAR” Pt. 1 in Section 1 of REVELATION Chapter 1:1 – 3:22 / “JESUS CHRIST in the MIDST of the LAMP-STANDS.”

I have often wondered why a Bible Believer would ever have the word, 'Millennium', in their vocabulary.

Where did that word come from?

I don't want to know.

I don't care.

It is a meaningless, ridiculous, irrational word, for any Bible Believer.

This is just funny!

Few posts later you start posting the very thing you don’t want read!

Basically, you must think John was presented a hodgepodge of demented visions because you really have very little facts from which your opinion is based.

Typical of no millennial folks, even proclaiming what is written is not written!

2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season....

...
7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.​

Just exactly is the common term for one thousand consecutive years?

And why would the exact number be repeated if it were not factual?

​

 

[Alan Gross]

You didn't read what I said:

"Few posts later you start posting the very thing you don’t want read!"

...

What does this mean?

"Just exactly is the common term for one thousand consecutive years?"

...

"And why would the exact number be repeated if it were not factual?"

You don't really know, do you?

...

"Basically, you must think John was presented a hodgepodge of demented visions because you really have very little facts from which your opinion is based."

I posted the facts, in Scriptures, with the question, "did you just see...?"

and that would be a, "no".

...

You know you don't have any idea what Revelation Teaches, by knowing that you are guessing about inventing a 'sequence of events', as if God Had John "Reveal" a hodgepodge of demented visions" that you had to straighten us out on.

The is a disappointment to you, because you know you are guessing.

I have nothing to do with what you make up.

 

[agedman]

You didn't read what I said:

"Few posts later you start posting the very thing you don’t want read!"

...

What does this mean?

"Just exactly is the common term for one thousand consecutive years?"

...

"And why would the exact number be repeated if it were not factual?"

You don't really know, do you?

...

"Basically, you must think John was presented a hodgepodge of demented visions because you really have very little facts from which your opinion is based."

I posted the facts, in Scriptures, with the question, "did you just see...?"

and that would be a, "no".

...

You know you don't have any idea what Revelation Teaches, by knowing that you are guessing about inventing a 'sequence of events', as if God Had John "Reveal" a hodgepodge of demented visions" that you had to straighten us out on.

The is a disappointment to you, because you know you are guessing.

I have nothing to do with what you make up.

You posted a couple passages and then quickly vented your own unsubstantiated opinion of no particular value. I responded merely so others reading are not left drifting in adopting your opinion.

But what do I know?

Not much according to you.

You already posted I am unknowledgeable, at best guessing at things beyond my level, and, of course, blind.

But the one unchanging fact is God said it, repeated it TWICE more, and you deny it.

Now, who do you suppose God is going to look upon as one without knowledge, at best only guessing, and blind?

I suppose, if you were really interested in knowing the truth, if you really did acknowledge that, of all the Scriptures, this is the only book that states it should be read and studied regularly, and that it does present factual information, then we might engage in a more serious discussion.

As it is, how can anyone take your thinking concerning Revelation with even casual seriousness?

If God said it, repeated it, and then repeated it again in the space of a few sentences, do you really not think it worthy of being held factual?

There is more particulars given in the scope of these passages then given for the virgin birth, yet do you doubt that, too? Is not the virgin birth even less probable to have occurred as revealed?

Whole large prophetic statements are presented in more specific terms then the given for the resurrection. Do you doubt that, too?

Or, are you just mostly inconsistent in your opinions of what is and isn’t truthful?

When you get to the point of actually taking things as truthfully presented in the major areas of this book, then perhaps we can engage.

Until then, I post that others also are aware and not blinded by you opinions.

 

[Roy]

Roy,

Thanks for your question.

I was trying to help you understand 'what to make of this Prophecy'.

There are 56 major points ~ just picking some number ~ that haven't been talked about or resolved in the entire chapter, but they can be.

Like a hand in a glove.

Thank you for all of your input, Alan. There is a lot to read and ponder in all that you posted.

God be With You Sir

 

[Alan Gross]

You posted a couple passages and then quickly vented your own unsubstantiated opinion of no particular value. I responded m

You posted a couple passages and then quickly vented your own unsubstantiated opinion of no particular value. I responded merely so others reading are not left drifting in adopting your opinion.

But what do I know?

Not much according to you.

You already posted I am unknowledgeable, at best guessing at things beyond my level, and, of course, blind.

But the one unchanging fact is God said it, repeated it TWICE more, and you deny it.

Now, who do you suppose God is going to look upon as one without knowledge, at best only guessing, and blind?

I suppose, if you were really interested in knowing the truth, if you really did acknowledge that, of all the Scriptures, this is the only book that states it should be read and studied regularly, and that it does present factual information, then we might engage in a more serious discussion.

As it is, how can anyone take your thinking concerning Revelation with even casual seriousness?

If God said it, repeated it, and then repeated it again in the space of a few sentences, do you really not think it worthy of being held factual?

There is more particulars given in the scope of these passages then given for the virgin birth, yet do you doubt that, too? Is not the virgin birth even less probable to have occurred as revealed?

Whole large prophetic statements are presented in more specific terms then the given for the resurrection. Do you doubt that, too?

Or, are you just mostly inconsistent in your opinions of what is and isn’t truthful?

When you get to the point of actually taking things as truthfully presented in the major areas of this book, then perhaps we can engage.

Until then, I post that others also are aware and not blinded by you opinions.

erely so others reading are not left drifting in adopting your opinion.

But what do I know?

Not much according to you.

You already posted I am unknowledgeable, at best guessing at things beyond my level, and, of course, blind.

But the one unchanging fact is God said it, repeated it TWICE more, and you deny it.

Now, who do you suppose God is going to look upon as one without knowledge, at best only guessing, and blind?

I suppose, if you were really interested in knowing the truth, if you really did acknowledge that, of all the Scriptures, this is the only book that states it should be read and studied regularly, and that it does present factual information, then we might engage in a more serious discussion.

As it is, how can anyone take your thinking concerning Revelation with even casual seriousness?

If God said it, repeated it, and then repeated it again in the space of a few sentences, do you really not think it worthy of being held factual?

There is more particulars given in the scope of these passages then given for the virgin birth, yet do you doubt that, too? Is not the virgin birth even less probable to have occurred as revealed?

Whole large prophetic statements are presented in more specific terms then the given for the resurrection. Do you doubt that, too?

Or, are you just mostly inconsistent in your opinions of what is and isn’t truthful?

When you get to the point of actually taking things as truthfully presented in the major areas of this book, then perhaps we can engage.

Until then, I post that others also are aware and not blinded by you opinions.

Your opinions is all you've got.

You know you don't know what's factual.

You can't even convince your own heart.

There has to be some reason Spiritual Passages, by a Spiritual God, can't be Spiritually decerned.

Being Led of The Spirit of God is how The Bible says God's children Spiritually Love God and Worship Him, Giving Him Glory in Salvation, and The Honor of Being The One Who Wrote The Bible.

Because, they are Teachable, in The Spiritual Realities God Has Revealed, in Revelation, and the rest of The Bible.