Jerry Walls Refuting Calvinistic Soteriology

[George Antonios]

I don’t believe that view is supported by scripture. I don’t see “fully” justified vs partially justified. Not sure what partially justified would do for someone. Sort of like being partially saved.

What I do see is all the OT saints (including Zacharias and Elisabeth are to believe the promises of God concerning His coming Messiah.

It's right there in the text. We both agree no man can keep the law 100%. Yet Luke says:
Luke1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

He didn't say they did "believe the promises of God" (although they certainly did), he said they kept the commandments blameless, as Paul also said of himself before his conversion (Php.3:6).
But other scriptures say no man can keep the commandments blameless. So clearly, there was a level at which a man could obtain such a good report, even though that level was not that of 100% perfection. It was to that lesser level that they were held accountable, as evidenced by the fact that many OT men are said to have been "just" or "good".
The higher 100% level of perfection was simply used of God to show them their sinfulness and their need of an ultimate saviour.
There are many, many other verses about that set-up, but I'm trying to keep it short.

 

[Noah Hirsch]

This same God Who you say "has determined His elect for salvation", very clearly says in Ezekiel 18:23, "Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord GOD, and not rather that he should turn from his way and live?"

The Hebrew for "pleasure" is "chaphets", which is "desire, will". So, here it is very clear from the Word of God, that He does NOT "desire" in the spiritual death of any wicked person, but rather that they would turn from their evil ways, and have eternal life! How can you say that God only "determined His elect for salvation"? This is clearly against the Bible! Jesus told those Jews in John chapter 5, who wanted to murder Him, "but I say these things so that you may be saved...You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life." (34, 39-40). Jesus wanted even this very Jews to be saved, but they in their stubborn pride, rejected this salvation!

God sent Jonah to preach salvation to the very wicked people of Nineveh, because He pited them "And should not I pity Nineveh, that great city, in which there are more than 120,000 persons who do not know their right hand from their left, and also much cattle?” (4:11). Jonah was no doubt a pre-Calvinist, as we can see from his comments to the Lord, after He had saved this wicked people, "But it displeased Jonah exceedingly, and he was angry. And he prayed to the Lord and said, “O Lord, is not this what I said when I was yet in my country? That is why I made haste to flee to Tarshish; for I knew that you are a gracious God and merciful, slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love, and relenting from disaster." (4:1-2)

Reformed theology is aganist the teachings of the Bible on salvation!

“He confirms the same sentiment in other words, that God desires nothing more earnestly than that those who were perishing and rushing to destruction should return into the way of safety...It follows, then, that what the Prophet now says is very true, that God wills not the death of a sinner...But the manner must be noticed in which God wishes all to be saved, namely, when they turn themselves from their ways. God thus does not so wish all men to be saved as to renounce the difference between good and evil; but repentance, as we have said, must precede pardon. How, then, does God wish all men to be saved?
By the Spirit’s condemning the world of sin, of righteousness, and of judgment at this day, by the Gospel, as he did formerly by the law and the prophets. (John 16:8.) God makes manifest to mankind their great misery, that they may betake themselves to him: he wounds that he may cure, and slays that he may give life. We hold, then, that; God wills not the death of a sinner, since he calls all equally to repentance, and promises himself prepared to receive them if they only seriously repent. If any one should object — then there is no election of God, by which he has predestinated a fixed number to salvation, the answer is at hand: the Prophet does not here speak of God’s secret counsel, but
only recalls miserable men from despair, that they may apprehend the hope of pardon, and repent and embrace the offered salvation. If any one again objects — this is making God act with duplicity, the answer is ready, that God always wishes the same thing, though by different ways, and in a manner inscrutable to us. Although, therefore, God’s will is simple, yet great variety is involved in it, as far as our senses are concerned. Besides, it is not surprising that our eyes should be blinded by intense light, so that we cannot certainly judge how God wishes all to be saved, and yet has devoted all the reprobate to eternal destruction, and wishes them to perish. While we look now through a glass darkly, we should be content with the measure of our own intelligence...God is
said not to wish the death of a sinner.
How so? since he wishes all to be converted. Now we must see how God wishes all to be converted; for repentance is surely his peculiar gift: as it is his office to create men, so it is his province to renew them, and restore his image within them. For this reason we are said to be his workmanship, that is, his fashioning. (Ephesians 2:10.) Since, therefore, repentance is a kind of second creation, it follows that it is not in man’s power; and if it is equally in God’s power to convert men as well as to create them, it follows that the reprobate are not converted, because God does not wish their conversion; for if he wished it he could do it: and hence it appears that he does not wish it. But again they argue foolishly, since God does not wish all to be converted, he is himself deceptive, and nothing can be certainly stated concerning his paternal benevolence. But this knot is easily untied; for he does not leave us in suspense when he says, that he wishes all to be saved. Why so? for if no one repents without finding God propitious, then this sentence is filled up. But we must remark that God puts on a twofold character: for he here wishes to be taken at his word. As I have already said, the Prophet does not here dispute with subtlety about his incomprehensible plans, but wishes to keep our attention close to God’s word. Now, what are the contents of this word? The law, the prophets, and the gospel. Now all are called to repentance, and the hope of salvation is promised them when they repent. this is true, since God rejects no returning sinner: he pardons all without exception: meanwhile, this will of God which he sets forth in his word does not prevent him from decreeing before the world was created what he would do with every individual: and as I have now said, I the Prophet only shows here, that when we have been converted we need not doubt that God immediately meets us and shows himself propitious. The remainder tomorrow.” (John Calvin’s Commentary on Ezekiel 18:23)

 

[Reformed1689]

The Hebrew for "pleasure" is "chaphets", which is "desire, will". So, here it is very clear from the Word of God, that He does NOT "desire" in the spiritual death of any wicked person, but rather that they would turn from their evil ways, and have eternal life! How can you say that God only "determined His elect for salvation"? This is clearly against the Bible! Jesus told those Jews in John chapter 5, who wanted to murder Him, "but I say these things so that you may be saved...You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life." (34, 39-40). Jesus wanted even this very Jews to be saved, but they in their stubborn pride, rejected this salvation!

So then you have something to reconcile here. Either God's will is not always accomplished giving us an impotent God, OR you must be a universalist.

 

[Iconoclast]

Your Gospel is very much unbiblical

You tried these same attacks a few years ago,in vain;
Jerry Walls wicked and profane question about God..part2
↑

The "Calvinistic" teaching of Pre-destination/Election, is NOT based on the Word of God, the Holy Bible, but the theology of some deluded individuals.

The only thing a post like this demonstrates is you have no understanding of the topic or you would address it biblically.
Explain what Jesus was speaking of in Jn6:37_44..then try jn10:26_30...
Show why you hate these truths so much.

#31Iconoclast, May 25, 2018


Then Archangel corrected you, but you did not accept it.

The ArchangelWell-Known Member

↑you said;
the problem with the Reformed group is very simple. They are noted for exploiting certain verses that they suppose support their "theology", while completely ignore the general teachings of the Holy Bible. To counter any such doctrine, the passage of John 3:16, will suffice, which is very clear that not only that God loves the entire human race, but also provided for their salvation in the death of the Lord Jesus Christ. They use the term "Calvinist" to promote these unbiblical doctrines, but completely ignore what John Calvin, the name they revere, has to say. I will post this once again:







Calvin's words here, are also very clear as to the scope of the Death of Jesus Christ. While some have convinced themselves, against the Teachings of the Holy Bible, that Jesus' Death does benefit the human race, as they all benefit from the rain, sunshine and food, which the Lord blesses all with (as if this were not the case before Jesus died!), Calvin here is clear, that Jesus actually died for the SINS of "the world", that is, "THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE".

Archangel said
Your reading of John 3:16 is incorrect. Here's why:

Here is the passage in Greek:

16 Οὕτως γὰρ ἠγάπησεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν κόσμον, ὥστε τὸν υἱὸν τὸν μονογενῆ ἔδωκεν, ἵνα πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν μὴ ἀπόληται ἀλλʼ ἔχῃ ζωὴν αἰώνιον.

The relevant portion of the passage : πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν. Here's the passage portion transliteration: pas ho pisteuon eis auton,

Whether this portion is translate as "whosoever believes" (the wrong way) or "all the ones believing" (the right way) hinges on the definite article before pisteuown. Here's where we go into the deep end of the pool:

The masculine singular definite article in Greek is ὁ. (Notice the "rough" breathing mark...it looks like an apostrophe over the letter)

The neuter singular relative pronoun in Greek is ὅ. (Notice the accent mark next to the rough breathing mark)

The neuter relative pronoun might be translated "whosoever;" the definite article cannot be. If, indeed, John wanted to convey the idea of "whosoever," he would have likely done it with a relative pronoun. But, here's the thing: The participle "the one believing" is a masculine singular participle. The relative pronoun that couples with a masculine singular noun is ὅς, not ὅ. ὅ is the relative pronoun that would be used for a neuter singular noun.

So, it is not possible to take ὁ as a relative pronoun because to do so would break the Greek grammatical rules related to gender.

Therefore, this participle cannot be translated "whosoever believes." The proper translation is "the believing one" or "the one who believes."

The Archangel

Archangel's Blog
#64The Archangel, May 27, 2018

 

[SavedByGrace]

“He confirms the same sentiment in other words, that God desires nothing more earnestly than that those who were perishing and rushing to destruction should return into the way of safety...It follows, then, that what the Prophet now says is very true, that God wills not the death of a sinner...But the manner must be noticed in which God wishes all to be saved, namely, when they turn themselves from their ways. God thus does not so wish all men to be saved as to renounce the difference between good and evil; but repentance, as we have said, must precede pardon. How, then, does God wish all men to be saved?
By the Spirit’s condemning the world of sin, of righteousness, and of judgment at this day, by the Gospel, as he did formerly by the law and the prophets. (John 16:8.) God makes manifest to mankind their great misery, that they may betake themselves to him: he wounds that he may cure, and slays that he may give life. We hold, then, that; God wills not the death of a sinner, since he calls all equally to repentance, and promises himself prepared to receive them if they only seriously repent. If any one should object — then there is no election of God, by which he has predestinated a fixed number to salvation, the answer is at hand: the Prophet does not here speak of God’s secret counsel, but
only recalls miserable men from despair, that they may apprehend the hope of pardon, and repent and embrace the offered salvation. If any one again objects — this is making God act with duplicity, the answer is ready, that God always wishes the same thing, though by different ways, and in a manner inscrutable to us. Although, therefore, God’s will is simple, yet great variety is involved in it, as far as our senses are concerned. Besides, it is not surprising that our eyes should be blinded by intense light, so that we cannot certainly judge how God wishes all to be saved, and yet has devoted all the reprobate to eternal destruction, and wishes them to perish. While we look now through a glass darkly, we should be content with the measure of our own intelligence...God is
said not to wish the death of a sinner.
How so? since he wishes all to be converted. Now we must see how God wishes all to be converted; for repentance is surely his peculiar gift: as it is his office to create men, so it is his province to renew them, and restore his image within them. For this reason we are said to be his workmanship, that is, his fashioning. (Ephesians 2:10.) Since, therefore, repentance is a kind of second creation, it follows that it is not in man’s power; and if it is equally in God’s power to convert men as well as to create them, it follows that the reprobate are not converted, because God does not wish their conversion; for if he wished it he could do it: and hence it appears that he does not wish it. But again they argue foolishly, since God does not wish all to be converted, he is himself deceptive, and nothing can be certainly stated concerning his paternal benevolence. But this knot is easily untied; for he does not leave us in suspense when he says, that he wishes all to be saved. Why so? for if no one repents without finding God propitious, then this sentence is filled up. But we must remark that God puts on a twofold character: for he here wishes to be taken at his word. As I have already said, the Prophet does not here dispute with subtlety about his incomprehensible plans, but wishes to keep our attention close to God’s word. Now, what are the contents of this word? The law, the prophets, and the gospel. Now all are called to repentance, and the hope of salvation is promised them when they repent. this is true, since God rejects no returning sinner: he pardons all without exception: meanwhile, this will of God which he sets forth in his word does not prevent him from decreeing before the world was created what he would do with every individual: and as I have now said, I the Prophet only shows here, that when we have been converted we need not doubt that God immediately meets us and shows himself propitious. The remainder tomorrow.” (John Calvin’s Commentary on Ezekiel 18:23)

could you not give your OWN respose?

 

[SavedByGrace]

You tried these same attacks a few years ago,in vain;
Jerry Walls wicked and profane question about God..part2
↑

The only thing a post like this demonstrates is you have no understanding of the topic or you would address it biblically.
Explain what Jesus was speaking of in Jn6:37_44..then try jn10:26_30...
Show why you hate these truths so much.

#31Iconoclast, May 25, 2018


Then Archangel corrected you, but you did not accept it.

in the year 2000, I was NOT a member of BB! That person who is also called "Saved by Grace", is NOT me!

 

[SavedByGrace]

So then you have something to reconcile here. Either God's will is not always accomplished giving us an impotent God, OR you must be a universalist.

you have MUCH to learn! Do you agree that it is God WILL/DESIRE that NO person, especially born agian Christians, sin. as Paul says in Ephesians 2:10, "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them." Right? Yet we ALL sin in our lives, AFTER we are saved, some also falling back to years of living in sin. Now, does this mean that somehow God has failed, because He WILLS that we do not sin, and yet as born agian Christians, DO sin? Your reasoning is MOOT!

 

[Reformed1689]

you have MUCH to learn! Do you agree that it is God WILL/DESIRE that NO person, especially born agian Christians, sin. as Paul says in Ephesians 2:10, "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them." Right? Yet we ALL sin in our lives, AFTER we are saved, some also falling back to years of living in sin. Now, does this mean that somehow God has failed, because He WILLS that we do not sin, and yet as born agian Christians, DO sin? Your reasoning is MOOT!

You seem to think will and desire are 100% equal and interchangeable.

 

[Scott Downey]

you have MUCH to learn! Do you agree that it is God WILL/DESIRE that NO person, especially born agian Christians, sin. as Paul says in Ephesians 2:10, "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them." Right? Yet we ALL sin in our lives, AFTER we are saved, some also falling back to years of living in sin. Now, does this mean that somehow God has failed, because He WILLS that we do not sin, and yet as born agian Christians, DO sin? Your reasoning is MOOT!

For we are His workmanship, now what do you think the workmanship actually is?
That of the flesh or that of the spirit?

Do you not understand that the spirit that is the new creation in Christ does not sin?

 

[Scott Downey]

1. 1 John 3:6
   Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
   1 John 3:9
2. Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

 

[Scott Downey]

That workmanship has everything to do with us becoming a new creation, and NOTHING to do with the OLD creation which is DEAD because of SIN

Romans 8
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

If anyone does not acknowledge this in 1 John 3, and Romans 9, he knows NOTHING, he is just bloviating out hot air, speaking out with an uninspired mind according to his flesh

bloviate means talk at length, especially in an inflated or empty way.

 

[Scott Downey]

Great swelling words of emptiness...
But these, like natural brute beasts made to be caught and destroyed, speak evil of the things they do not understand, and will utterly perish in their own corruption,
2 Peter 2...

 

[SavedByGrace]

For we are His workmanship, now what do you think the workmanship actually is?
That of the flesh or that of the spirit?

Do you not understand that the spirit that is the new creation in Christ does not sin?

problem with you guys is very simple, you read into passages things that are NOT even there, and argue for your theology even when the Bible is against it! Refute Jerry if you can!

 

[SavedByGrace]

You seem to think will and desire are 100% equal and interchangeable.

show the difference

 

[SavedByGrace]

You seem to think will and desire are 100% equal and interchangeable.

Synonyms of will | Thesaurus.com

 

[Reformed1689]

show the difference

Desire is something God delights in. His will, is what he does to accomplish his purposes.

For example, a parent delights in the happiness of their child. Punishment does not usually make a child happy. But a parent's will is to punish their child when they do wrong.

So no, will and desire are not always the same interchangeable word.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Desire is something God delights in. His will, is what he does to accomplish his purposes.

For example, a parent delights in the happiness of their child. Punishment does not usually make a child happy. But a parent's will is to punish their child when they do wrong.

So no, will and desire are not always the same interchangeable word.

that is according to YOUR own definition!

Are you saying that a person can "will" something, and not "desire" it? Or, "desire" something and not "will" it?

 

[Reformed1689]

that is according to YOUR own definition!

Are you saying that a person can "will" something, and not "desire" it? Or, "desire" something and not "will" it?

Yes. I can desire to eat mac and cheese, but because it is not healthy, my will, and what I carry out, is to eat collard greens.

This is not rocket science.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Yes. I can desire to eat mac and cheese, but because it is not healthy, my will, and what I carry out, is to eat collard greens.

This is not rocket science.

do you know in the Bible, where it says that God "desires" and "wills" that the unsaved go to hell? Ezekiel 18:23, and Romans 9:22, are against this!

 

[Reformed1689]

do you know in the Bible, where it says that God "desires" and "wills" that the unsaved go to hell? Ezekiel 18:23, and Romans 9:22, are against this!

If it was not His will that the unsaved go to Hell, they would not go to Hell. Neither Ezekiel 18:23 or Romans 9:22 refute this. In fact, Romans 9:22 specifically says that some are prepared for destruction.

Your position on this would necessitate universalism.