Jesus and the death Penalty?

[Zaac]

Can we just accept that different folks who have worked in the prison system view the same thing differently or simply had a different experience?

 

[Yeshua1]

Again you're talking about how man feels about what they have done. God says that ALL have sinned so the babies are just as worthy of death as is an adult murderer.

His righteousness and justice does not discriminate. We do.

And you still didn't address that previous post:laugh:

Comparing apples to oranges on that one, as we are NOT discussing if a baby or an adult would both be sinners, and guilty of death due to their sin debts!

We are discussing wether God gave the state, governmemt, authority and right to execute for capital offenses, and He did!

And in my opinion, though babies are born sinners, the Lord does not hold them personally accountible for that, as in the Cross he made provosion for those who cannot receive jesus by faith!

 

[Zaac]

Comparing apples to oranges on that one, as we are NOT discussing if a baby or an adult would both be sinners, and guilty of death due to their sin debts!

We are discussing wether God gave the state, governmemt, authority and right to execute for capital offenses, and He did!

Again, where in Scripture are you deriving that God gave the authorities the right to disobey Him? Man passed laws that gives himself the right to execute just as he passed laws that make it legal to murder by abortion.

And in my opinion, though babies are born sinners, the Lord does not hold them personally accountible for that, as in the Cross he made provosion for those who cannot receive jesus by faith!

Off topic.

 

[Yeshua1]

Again, where in Scripture are you deriving that God gave the authorities the right to disobey Him? Man passed laws that gives himself the right to execute just as he passed laws that make it legal to murder by abortion.



Off topic.

God granted the right to execute muderers/killers to society before the law, and continued in the NT, as he gave that to the government!

NEVER gave right to murder babies!

 

[Luke2427]

Does not Scripture show that there were cultural laws that were intended specifically for the Jewish people in order to keep them separate and from acting like the Gentiles?

Is not one of the reasons God asked them not to intermarry was to keep them separate and from taking on the behaviors of those who did not worship Him?

Under His new covenant, there is neither Jew nor Gentile and thus there would be no need for cultural laws like not wearing mixed fibers.

The moral laws have not ceased and are confirmed in the NT.

Exactly.

I thought you were saying we can discard anything in the OT not repeated in the nt.

That thinking is problematic.

Unless there is exegetical reason to not apply some OT teaching, it is still the Bible and we are still to obey it.

There are scriptural reasons not to practice OT dietary, civil and ceremonial laws.

 

[Yeshua1]

Exactly.

I thought you were saying we can discard anything in the OT not repeated in the nt.

That thinking is problematic.

Unless there is exegetical reason to not apply some OT teaching, it is still the Bible and we are still to obey it.

There are scriptural reasons not to practice OT dietary, civil and ceremonial laws.

We practice the principles that God gave us in the OT, but we live according to the NT way, which is thru the person of the HS in and thru us now!

 

[go2church]

How do we practice OT and live NT? Makes no sense.

What does "Love your enemy" mean and include? Does this only apply to an individual or are there corporate applications? Is it still loving to not individually kill your enemy, yet advocate for their death corporately. How does love ever equal killing?

 

[Revmitchell]

How do we practice OT and live NT? Makes no sense.

What does "Love your enemy" mean and include? Does this only apply to an individual or are there corporate applications? Is it still loving to not individually kill your enemy, yet advocate for their death corporately. How does love ever equal killing?

the problem with your statement is the use of the word "killing". Correct me if I am understanding you wrong but I assume it is a reference to the death penalty. That being the case then your word is inappropriate. Killing is not the same as the death penalty. Killing is unjust. The death penalty is the legal process whereby one is investigated and convicted. It is not the same as "killing".

Does loving your enemy mean letting them off the hook when they act in an unjust way? Should we not impose any penalty at all? If we should then how is the death penalty anymore loving or unloving than any other penalty where justice is concerned?

 

[Yeshua1]

How do we practice OT and live NT? Makes no sense.

What does "Love your enemy" mean and include? Does this only apply to an individual or are there corporate applications? Is it still loving to not individually kill your enemy, yet advocate for their death corporately. How does love ever equal killing?

God prohibited Murder, but sanctioned killing of the person that did that sin!

 

[go2church]

the problem with your statement is the use of the word "killing". Correct me if I am understanding you wrong but I assume it is a reference to the death penalty. That being the case then your word is inappropriate. Killing is not the same as the death penalty. Killing is unjust. The death penalty is the legal process whereby one is investigated and convicted. It is not the same as "killing".

Does loving your enemy mean letting them off the hook when they act in an unjust way? Should we not impose any penalty at all? If we should then how is the death penalty anymore loving or unloving than any other penalty where justice is concerned?

I won't quibble too much, that's fine. I was simply referencing the ending of someone's life. In the end, the individual is dead.

To the larger point of your post. I don't know of anyone opposed to the death penalty that advocates the absence of judgment for criminals. They are opposed to government sanctioned execution of criminals. This flawed premise is unfortunately common. Justice doesn't have to be deadly to be justice.

BTW I oppose the death penalty for multitude of reasons some practical others theological. Don't know if I have made that clear on this thread though on other threads I have.

 

[go2church]

Does advocating for the death penalty violate love your enemy?

 

[Yeshua1]

Does advocating for the death penalty violate love your enemy?

Does jesus love satan?

God can still love a person, but he still has to judge the crime and punish that to be a rightous judge, doesn't he?

 

[Alcott]

Does advocating for the death penalty violate love your enemy?

Yes. So does imposing a 50 cent library fine.

 

[go2church]

Do you want to have an intelligent discussion or not?

 

[Aaron]

Another of questionable knowledge attempting to lecture me on mine. Too funny.

:laugh: Dude, I handed you your lunch. Your attempted NT application was trite, slovenly and rife with the theology of televangelist soundbytes.

:sleeping_2:

 

[Alcott]

Do you want to have an intelligent discussion or not?

Sure. Do you know of anyone to have it with?

 

[go2church]

Cute. So your contribution to this discussion will be snarky comments? Is that because you're incapable, don't want to or are just too lazy?

 

[Revmitchell]

Does advocating for the death penalty violate love your enemy?

No it does not. The reason is that the death penalty is an act of justice. Jesus was not addressing this issue.

 

[Luke2427]

Does advocating for the death penalty violate love your enemy?

No.

You are confusing what God requires of individuals with whay God requires of government.

Is it immoral for you to sentence a man you caught drinking and driving to two years of imprisonment in your basement?

Yes.

For the government? No.

You don't take bible directives aimed at individuals and force them on governments.

Nor do you allow individuals to do everything God allows governments to do.

They are too very different things.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

:laugh: Dude, I handed you your lunch. Your attempted NT application was trite, slovenly and rife with the theology of televangelist soundbytes.

:sleeping_2:

When you can come back and tell me that you have obtained a doctorate and graduated summa cum laude, then I might attempt to begin to take you seriously.

BTW, I don't look at televangelists. Evidently you do, or you wouldn't be able to reference them. I would suggest that you supplement your sixth grade education by other means.

Otherwise and until then, you will remain a legend only in your own mind.