Jesus Marvelled At Unblief! Why?

[Protestant]

Rockson wrote: “Yes Dave but still falls far short of answering why he was surprised and marveled at their unbelief. There would be no surprise of that whatsoever if he had a Calvinists view that they couldn't believe anyway unless God put it in them.”

Yes, Rockson, if it were possible to prove your doctrine…… (the doctrine which allows men the freedom to choose to believe that which they naturally detest, as well as the ability to make good and holy use of their unregenerate, evil will through receiving and believing spiritual truth)…… by citing one Scripture taken out of context, then you have won the argument.

Let’s use the same rule book and examine another verse. It concerns the deceased Lazarus:

[When Jesus therefore saw her weeping, and the Jews also weeping which came with her, he groaned in the spirit, and was troubled.]

34 And said, Where have ye laid him? They said unto him, Lord, come and see (John 11:34)

Rockson, if you believe Jesus is both fully God and fully man as all orthodox Christians should, then how do you explain Jesus’ ignorance of what should be easily known to Him, since He is God in the flesh?

Taken out of context, this Scripture proves Jesus was not God, according to your rule book.

Do you now see the incongruity and absurdity of your rule book?

Dave Gilbert certainly does.

 

[loDebar]

He marveled at the extent of unbelief, or lack of action or why they would not believe as He gave them faith to exercise.

It is the same meaning as

Mat 11:17

And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented.

A response is required

 

[InTheLight]

Rockson wrote: “Yes Dave but still falls far short of answering why he was surprised and marveled at their unbelief. There would be no surprise of that whatsoever if he had a Calvinists view that they couldn't believe anyway unless God put it in them.”

Yes, Rockson, if it were possible to prove your doctrine…… (the doctrine which allows men the freedom to choose to believe that which they naturally detest, as well as the ability to make good and holy use of their unregenerate, evil will through receiving and believing spiritual truth)…… by citing one Scripture taken out of context, then you have won the argument.

Let’s use the same rule book and examine another verse. It concerns the deceased Lazarus:

[When Jesus therefore saw her weeping, and the Jews also weeping which came with her, he groaned in the spirit, and was troubled.]

34 And said, Where have ye laid him? They said unto him, Lord, come and see (John 11:34)

Rockson, if you believe Jesus is both fully God and fully man as all orthodox Christians should, then how do you explain Jesus’ ignorance of what should be easily known to Him, since He is God in the flesh?

Taken out of context, this Scripture proves Jesus was not God, according to your rule book.

This is one of the lengthiest constructions of a strawman I've ever seen on BB. Congratulations.

 

[Protestant]

This is one of the lengthiest constructions of a strawman I've ever seen on BB. Congratulations.

You wouldn’t know a straw man if you wore ruby slippers, hung with dwarfs and consulted wizards.

Warning: Your yellow brick road does not lead you where you think it does.

 

[InTheLight]

You wouldn’t know a straw man if you wore ruby slippers, hung with dwarfs and consulted wizards.

July is almost over and we were all worried you'd go the whole month without being funny but you just made it. Congratulations.

 

[TCassidy]

Warning: Your yellow brick road does not lead you where you think it does.

Where do you think that road, which he is presumably on, leads?

 

[Aaron]

Calvinists claim that God needs to apply irresistible grace and regenerate them to get people to BELIEVE This is because of their teaching of total and absolute depravity as being the state of man. I think most Christians, Calvinistic, Armenian or whatever have no problem believing man has a fallen nature. to what degree one is depraved is a question much pondered. If Biblical depravity truly meant man doesn't even have the ability to receive God's grace AND BELIEVE without regeneratoin......Then why therefore do we see the following scripture in Mark 6: 6

And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them. And he marvelled because of their unbelief. Mark 6:6

Other translations instead of using the word marveled use also in it's place amazed, wondered, surprised, and astonished! Why so? If anyone knew about the nature of man...wouldn't Jesus have? Didn't he know that mankind had to be regenerated to even come up to the place of ....BELIEVING? So why was he surprised? Why was he astonished? Why wasn't it just automatic with him and where he'd tell his disciples,"Relax boys! They're in unbelief because God hasn't done a work in them! I'm not shocked I'm not surprised!" And yet the scripture says..... HE WAS!

Or maybe the real truth was this.....that Jesus had done many signs and wonders around Capernuim and Nazareth having heard about it ....should have believed? And that there was no excuse they didn't when they should have? Jesus didn't say anything about giving them some special regeneration necessary to bring them up to the place of believing! He expected the things which he did were sufficient to establish belief. That would have been the perfect time to teach a Calvinists lesson on total depravity and say, "See there!" Once again he was totally at odds with the fact that they were not believing. In his way of thinking...they should have.

Lol. Christ wasn't surprised. He was astonished. It was a spontaneous human emotional response to an amazing and astonishing display of hardness of heart. It doesn't mean He was surprised. You talk as if this caught Him off guard.

 

[1689Dave]

Calvinists claim that God needs to apply irresistible grace and regenerate them to get people to BELIEVE This is because of their teaching of total and absolute depravity as being the state of man. I think most Christians, Calvinistic, Armenian or whatever have no problem believing man has a fallen nature. to what degree one is depraved is a question much pondered. If Biblical depravity truly meant man doesn't even have the ability to receive God's grace AND BELIEVE without regeneratoin......Then why therefore do we see the following scripture in Mark 6: 6

And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them. And he marvelled because of their unbelief. Mark 6:6

Other translations instead of using the word marveled use also in it's place amazed, wondered, surprised, and astonished! Why so? If anyone knew about the nature of man...wouldn't Jesus have? Didn't he know that mankind had to be regenerated to even come up to the place of ....BELIEVING? So why was he surprised? Why was he astonished? Why wasn't it just automatic with him and where he'd tell his disciples,"Relax boys! They're in unbelief because God hasn't done a work in them! I'm not shocked I'm not surprised!" And yet the scripture says..... HE WAS!

Or maybe the real truth was this.....that Jesus had done many signs and wonders around Capernuim and Nazareth having heard about it ....should have believed? And that there was no excuse they didn't when they should have? Jesus didn't say anything about giving them some special regeneration necessary to bring them up to the place of believing! He expected the things which he did were sufficient to establish belief. That would have been the perfect time to teach a Calvinists lesson on total depravity and say, "See there!" Once again he was totally at odds with the fact that they were not believing. In his way of thinking...they should have.

The reason Jesus could not do many mighty works was because their sins must be paid for before salvation and healing can justly take place. The unbelief was evidence for God leaving them to wallow in their sins. Whenever Jesus saw faith, he knew their sins were paid for in the atonement soon to take place.

 

[InTheLight]

The reason Jesus could not do many mighty works was because their sins must be paid for before salvation and healing can justly take place. The unbelief was evidence for God leaving them to wallow in their sins. Whenever Jesus saw faith, he knew their sins were paid for in the atonement soon to take place.

I see. God "looked down through the corridors of time and saw that these people would be atoned."

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

[1689Dave]

I see. God "looked down through the corridors of time and saw that these people would be atoned."

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

“And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. If any man have an ear, let him hear.” (Revelation 13:8–9)

 

[InTheLight]

“And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. If any man have an ear, let him hear.” (Revelation 13:8–9)

Non sequitur.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL

 

[Rockson]

The reason Jesus could not do many mighty works was because their sins must be paid for before salvation and healing can justly take place. The unbelief was evidence for God leaving them to wallow in their sins. Whenever Jesus saw faith, he knew their sins were paid for in the atonement soon to take place.

Well have to differ with you on that one. Wouldn't their sins be not rightly paid for until the time that Jesus died on the Cross and was raised? And if unbelief was evidence for God leaving them to wallow in their sins then why did God lead him to preach to them in the first place? And thirdly why would he therefore marvel at their unbelief? He surely wouldn't have a lack of knowledge of Calvinistic understanding of scriptures if indeed they were correct.

 

[1689Dave]

Well have to differ with you on that one. Wouldn't their sins be not rightly paid for until the time that Jesus died on the Cross and was raised? And if unbelief was evidence for God leaving them to wallow in their sins then why did God lead him to preach to them in the first place? And thirdly why would he therefore marvel at their unbelief? He surely wouldn't have a lack of knowledge of Calvinistic understanding of scriptures if indeed they were correct.

All of the OT saints had faith, a fruit of the Holy Spirit. This is because Christ justified them by his blood. Could Jesus fail by not going to the cross? All of the faithful were saved and healed based of the inevitability of his atonement carried out in time.

“For he chose us in Christ before the foundation of the world that we may be holy and unblemished in his sight in love.” (Ephesians 1:4)

 

[1689Dave]

I see. God "looked down through the corridors of time and saw that these people would be atoned."

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

Not quite. He chose us before the foundation of the world to be holy, not because we were holy.

 

[loDebar]

We are not Holy at all, just forgiven

 

[1689Dave]

We are not Holy at all, just forgiven

“Pursue peace with everyone, and holiness, for without it no one will see the Lord.” (Hebrews 12:14)

 

[loDebar]

pursue does not mean has

 

[1689Dave]

pursue does not mean has

It still remains, without holiness you will not see Christ. "for without it no one will see the Lord.” (Hebrews 12:14)

 

[InTheLight]

Not quite. He chose us before the foundation of the world to be holy, not because we were holy.

You said,

Whenever Jesus saw faith, he knew their sins were paid for in the atonement soon to take place.

If that's not the definition of looking into the future, I don't know what is...

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL

 

[1689Dave]

You said,

Whenever Jesus saw faith, he knew their sins were paid for in the atonement soon to take place.

If that's not the definition of looking into the future, I don't know what is...

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL

There is no salvation apart from Christ's atonement yet we know the OT saints were saved.