Jesus Marvelled At Unblief! Why?

[SovereignGrace]

Still doesn't answer the question why he had to ask, "Where have you laid him" You're not believing even in the slightest that God gave up his attributes in any way form or fashion while upon the Earth. I'd kindly suggest you need to study up on what the Incarnation actually meant.

And Jesus seeing their faith said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven.” But some of the scribes were sitting there and reasoning in their hearts, “Why does this man speak that way? He is blaspheming; who can forgive sins but God alone?” Immediately Jesus, aware in His spirit that they were reasoning that way within themselves, said to them, “Why are you reasoning about these things in your hearts?”[Mark 2:5-8] The Christ knew what they were reasoning(saying) in their hearts, and asked them a question. By using your (il)logic, He asked not knowing why.

 

[InTheLight]

He did not cease to be God. He is Immanuel/Emmanuel, which means ‘God with us’. You are saying God, and Jesus is God, did not know some things. That’s open theism.

You are the one who needs further study. Are you’re doing is deifying Him, not I.

“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."
Mark 13:32 NKJV


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[SovereignGrace]

https://bible.org/question/does-jes...ll-only-gods-knowledge-stated-matt-2436-and-m


https://carm.org/if-jesus-god-then-why-did-he-not-know-time-his-return

 

[Rockson]

And Jesus seeing their faith said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven.” But some of the scribes were sitting there and reasoning in their hearts, “Why does this man speak that way? He is blaspheming; who can forgive sins but God alone?” Immediately Jesus, aware in His spirit that they were reasoning that way within themselves, said to them, “Why are you reasoning about these things in your hearts?”[Mark 2:5-8] The Christ knew what they were reasoning(saying) in their hearts, and asked them a question. By using your (il)logic, He asked not knowing why.

Sorry but you're just ignorant as to what by beliefs are in this matter. Cease talking about my logic. Christ knew by revelation from the Father things that a natural man couldn't know. He said the Father in me he does the works.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Sorry but you're just ignorant as to what by beliefs are in this matter. Cease talking about my logic. Christ knew by revelation from the Father things that a natural man couldn't know. He said the Father in me he does the works.

Oh, now the Christ knew via divine revelation from His Father. As I stated, you are an open theist.

 

[Rockson]

Oh, now the Christ knew via divine revelation from His Father. As I stated, you are an open theist.

Nope sorry you're just openly wrong.

 

[MB]

Rockson;
I believe He marveled because He was right in front of them. Even though these men had studied the Word they did not recognized Jesus as God. They did not recognize Him because they were blinded by of their rejection of Him as the Messiah.
MB

 

[utilyan]

That statement proves you don't understand what "total depravity" means.

It does not mean that all people are as bad as they could possibly be.

It means that all three parts of man, body, soul, and spirit, have been affected by the fall, and no part of man has escaped the consequences of the fall, and thus the total man is depraved and no part of him is good enough to merit heaven on his own.

In other words it means that all people are as bad as they could possibly be.


If you cannot do ACTUAL GOOD have no ACTUAL LOVE then you are always as bad as you can be.

Folks going to have a fun time forking up Calvinist dictionary. where ALL means SOME. They can tell you to your face that God LOVES someone but its not a 1st class divine love, its a 2nd class evil love.

Not a 1st class happy faith, but a 2nd class junky faith.

Or a GOOD WORK isn't a 1st class good work but a FAKE evil work.

Anything done devoid of love of God and neighbor is flat out evil.


Focus on can a person do TRUE GOOD? If you cannot do anything TRUE GOOD, then you are as bad as you possibly could be.

If a person's motivation is not GOD in everything they do, they are as bad as they could possibly be.


When Adam and Eve fell God mentions a list of punishments that fall on man. But he forgot to mention the one punishment that makes all the others look like Disneyland. That you are incapable of Loving God and Neighbor

 

[TCassidy]

In other words it means that all people are as bad as they could possibly be.

What part of "It does not mean that all people are as bad as they could possibly be" was too complicated for you to understand?

 

[utilyan]

What part of "It does not mean that all people are as bad as they could possibly be" was too complicated for you to understand?

Its easy to clear up. Your response may fly if someone declared "well if we are totally depraved why doesn't everyone just run around murdering folks?"

Then I can understand "well people are not bad as possibly be because God put some guard rails".

Even then the assumption is murder is the worst sin rather then disobedience of God.


Folk have different categories of "BAD" and "GOOD".

Are all men capable of doing things that are Good in the eyes of God?

If its not GOOD in the eyes of God can we say this is evil?

You might even tell me "ALL MANKIND DESERVES HELL" That doesn't register as being as bad as they can possibly be?

Can we say "Man is utterly unable to choose to follow God, refrain from evil, or accept the gift of salvation as it is offered."?

If person can't follow God they are precisely as bad as they could be and that sin tops ALL other sins.

Show me this sin that is greater then denial, disobedience and rebellion against God.

You don't need to murder or burn a house down to be as evil as you can possibly be, a cut away from God, no choice of God, no desire of God, that is PERFECTLY EVIL.


I don't believe the statement was thought through well enough.

You are going to have to tell me Man cannot choose or desire God. He must be predestined by God.

 

[TCassidy]

Its easy to clear up. Your response may fly if someone declared "well if we are totally depraved why doesn't everyone just run around murdering folks?"

Once again you demonstrate a remarkable lack of understanding.

"Total Depravity" does not mean "as bad as can be." It means that the totality of man, his body, his soul, and his spirit, has been damaged by the fall, and that no part of man, his body, his soul, nor his spirit, has remained untouched by the fall and thus able to approach God on its own merit.

 

[Aaron]

Its easy to clear up. Your response may fly if someone declared "well if we are totally depraved why doesn't everyone just run around murdering folks?"

Then I can understand "well people are not bad as possibly be because God put some guard rails".

Even then the assumption is murder is the worst sin rather then disobedience of God.


Folk have different categories of "BAD" and "GOOD".

Are all men capable of doing things that are Good in the eyes of God?

If its not GOOD in the eyes of God can we say this is evil?

You might even tell me "ALL MANKIND DESERVES HELL" That doesn't register as being as bad as they can possibly be?

Can we say "Man is utterly unable to choose to follow God, refrain from evil, or accept the gift of salvation as it is offered."?

If person can't follow God they are precisely as bad as they could be and that sin tops ALL other sins.

Show me this sin that is greater then denial, disobedience and rebellion against God.

You don't need to murder or burn a house down to be as evil as you can possibly be, a cut away from God, no choice of God, no desire of God, that is PERFECTLY EVIL.


I don't believe the statement was thought through well enough.

You are going to have to tell me Man cannot choose or desire God. He must be predestined by God.

Good ol' mankind. Doesn't need rebirth, just a little repair work here and there.

 

[Aaron]

Once again you demonstrate a remarkable lack of understanding.

"Total Depravity" does not mean "as bad as can be." It means that the totality of man, his body, his soul, and his spirit, has been damaged by the fall, and that no part of man, his body, his soul, nor his spirit, has remained untouched by the fall and thus able to approach God on its own merit.

The guy you're arguing with is wiser in his own eyes than seven men who can give a reason.

 

[Rockson]

Once again you demonstrate a remarkable lack of understanding.

"Total Depravity" does not mean "as bad as can be." It means that the totality of man, his body, his soul, and his spirit, has been damaged by the fall, and that no part of man, his body, his soul, nor his spirit, has remained untouched by the fall and thus able to approach God on its own merit.

Yeah but isn't it Calvinists the ones who sow the confusion on this subject? You say mankind YES can make decisions to do a lot of good things.....but a simple decision like responding to the grace of God he has to have God put that in him.

Now I agree God encourages, convicts the sinner to receive but that' a far cry from putting the actual decision to do so in him.

You say not of his own merit what you're really saying is if one claims they made a decision for God (albeit with the Holy Spirit's encouragement) just even one saying they made the decision you claim as being in pride.

That is your error with TD. I'd have to say that really doesn't look like a real LOVE relationship with God for without freedom to choose how would you know if you truly loved God? How would he even know if you truly loved him?

He could never know that unless there was freedom of will. Such is why he created free will beings so it can be demonstrated with each individual if their love is genuine.

Yes free will beings have the potential to create problems BUT he preferred that as compared to a scenario where there could be no REAL LOVE.

 

[utilyan]

Good ol' mankind. Doesn't need rebirth, just a little repair work here and there.

Jesus said the sick need a physician, not an undertaker.

If corruption were total nothing good in the eyes of God, there would be nothing there to save nor would God have anything there to Love.

 

[utilyan]

Once again you demonstrate a remarkable lack of understanding.

"Total Depravity" does not mean "as bad as can be." It means that the totality of man, his body, his soul, and his spirit, has been damaged by the fall, and that no part of man, his body, his soul, nor his spirit, has remained untouched by the fall and thus able to approach God on its own merit.

"Once again you demonstrate a remarkable lack of understanding."

Maybe you need to pray more so God will flip the Gnostic switch on.

"has remained untouched by the fall and thus able to approach God on its own merit."

^I didn't know that. I expected you to say NOT able to approach God.


My challenge is denial of God equates to "BEING AS BAD AS POSSIBLY CAN BE" Commandment #1 is broke.

Name one sin greater than not able to approach God.

 

[InTheLight]

"Once again you demonstrate a remarkable lack of understanding."

Maybe you need to pray more so God will flip the Gnostic switch on.

"has remained untouched by the fall and thus able to approach God on its own merit."

^I didn't know that. I expected you to say NOT able to approach God.

He did. He said, and that no part of man, [..] (is) able to approach God on its own merit.

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[TCassidy]

Yeah but isn't it Calvinists the ones who sow the confusion on this subject?

Believing what God said about mankind being fallen and lost in trespass and sin is not "confusion." It is believing God's word.

You say mankind YES can make decisions to do a lot of good things.....but a simple decision like responding to the grace of God he has to have God put that in him.

God does not put a decision into a person. God gives the person a new heart of faith. Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

Now I agree God encourages, convicts the sinner to receive but that' a far cry from putting the actual decision to do so in him.

Again, God does not put a decision in a lost person. He regenerates the lost person by giving him a new heart. Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

You say not of his own merit what you're really saying is if one claims they made a decision for God (albeit with the Holy Spirit's encouragement) just even one saying they made the decision you claim as being in pride.

What I am really says is exactly what I said. And a person believes, repents, and obeys because he has been given that new heart of faith, repentance and obedience.

That is your error with TD.

Believing what God has said about mankind being fallen, lost in trespass and sin, is not an error. It is believing God.

I'd have to say that really doesn't look like a real LOVE relationship with God for without freedom to choose how would you know if you truly loved God?

The lost person does not love God. The lost person hates God. He is the enemy of God. Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

How would he even know if you truly loved him?

The lost man does not love God. He hates God and considers God his enemy. Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

He could never know that unless there was freedom of will.

If the will of the lost man is free then both Paul and the Holy Spirit are liars for they say, in
Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Such is why he created free will beings so it can be demonstrated with each individual if their love is genuine.

We love Him because He first loved us. And we know we love Him because we obey Him. 1John 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us. John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me

Yes free will beings have the potential to create problems BUT he preferred that as compared to a scenario where there could be no REAL LOVE.

Except the bible says the lost man is not free, he is in bondage to the law of sin and death. And the saved man is not free. He is bound to the law of New Life in Christ. Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

 

[TCassidy]

The guy you're arguing with is wiser in his own eyes than seven men who can give a reason.

Yeah, I really should just give up. It's like trying to discuss color with a blind man. Or music with a deaf man.

 

[Revmitchell]

Yeah, I really should just give up. It's like trying to discuss color with a blind man. Or music with a deaf man.

See this is the attitude that was displayed by White when he debated flowers. White lost just because of his attitude alone. Just because someone does not agree with you doesn't make them like a blind man. Such claims are arrogant, ungodly, and unbecoming a Christian.