JOHN 3:16 - FOR GOD SO LOVES THE WHOLE HUMAN RACE

[Saved-By-Grace]

Not once is free will talked about in the Bible. Instead you see God graciously choosing to act from Genesis to Revelation. It is all God and not one speck of your utterly depraved being that saves you. You are completely at the good and gracious mercy of God. Any attempt to add human effort is an anathema to God's glory. You should be ashamed of your disrespect toward God.

my friend, you are blind to the truth!

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

my friend, you are blind to the truth!

Yes, MennoSota, needs serious prayers!

 

[MennoSota]

can you read? "they have closed their eyes— so their eyes cannot see". The action in the Greek here is the people "closing their OWN eyes", and not God!

In Matthews Gospel, chapter 13:14-15, (as in Acts 28:17) the quotation agree with the LXX (Greek Old Testament) of Isaiah 6:10, in regarding the verbs in the third person plural of the indicative mood, so that it is the people themselves who perform the actions named; in the Hebrew of Isaiah 6:10, the verbs are in the second person singular, of the imperative mood, so that the prophet is commanded to perform the actions named. In John 12:40, it is the third person singular, of the indicative mood, where the actions are referred to God!

Man clearly has a responsibility in either ACCEPTING or REJECTING the Gospel of Jesus Christ

I can read and I pointed out what Acts 28 says. Paul says that God hardened their heart. God made them unseeing and unhearing. This is by God's ordaining. It's right in the text.

 

[MennoSota]

my friend, you are blind to the truth!

I have verse after verse after verse showing God choosing and saying that God chooses. I can provide verses that say God predestined us. You cannot provide even one verse that says humans have free will. You have created a strawman that is burning up before you.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

I can read and I pointed out what Acts 28 says. Paul says that God hardened their heart. God made them unseeing and unhearing. This is by God's ordaining. It's right in the text.

why do you still argue with the Word of God. I have shown from the Greek that these people closed THEIR OWN EYES, as the grammar clearly shows. This is the Bible and not my "twist" on it. You have to quite holding on to your theology when the Bible shows you to be wrong!

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

I have verse after verse after verse showing God choosing and saying that God chooses. I can provide verses that say God predestined us. You cannot provide even one verse that says humans have free will. You have created a strawman that is burning up before you.

you are in need of some very serious help, as you keep on arguing against what the Bible clearly says, because it does not agree with your warped theology!

 

[MennoSota]

why do you still argue with the Word of God. I have shown from the Greek that these people closed THEIR OWN EYES, as the grammar clearly shows. This is the Bible and not my "twist" on it. You have to quite holding on to your theology when the Bible shows you to be wrong!

LOL, you have shown nothing other than to ignore God's ordained sovereignty from Genesis to Revelation in order to hold on to your own corrupt will as the means of your salvation.

 

[MennoSota]

you are in need of some very serious help, as you keep on arguing against what the Bible clearly says, because it does not agree with your warped theology!

LOL, yet I have verse after verse to make my point and you have not even one verse.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

LOL, yet I have verse after verse to make my point and you have not even one verse.

I think that our exchanges have run their course. have a nice day!

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

LOL, yet I have verse after verse to make my point and you have not even one verse.

you need to change your eye glass, it looks steamed up!

 

[MennoSota]

I think that our exchanges have run their course. have a nice day!

You too.

 

[MennoSota]

you need to change your eye glass, it looks steamed up!

You need to read the Bible. Just do a word search for the word "chosen." That is the best place to start.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

You need to read the Bible. Just do a word search for the word "chosen." That is the best place to start.

thanks!

 

[MennoSota]

thanks!

For my part, I will continue to look for the elusive words "free will." [emoji56]

 

[TCassidy]

Acts 28:17 plainly tells us that sinners "close their eyes" (action as of the person, not an outside party), to the truth of the Gospel. For them to do this, they must have had them "open"! Here is their "free will" in action. This, my friend, is the Word of God.

So you don't believe that fallen man is in bondage to the law of sin and death? Romans 8:2.

If so, do you also deny that the saved man is bound to the law of new life in Christ?

You don't believe Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. ???

You don't believe 1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. ???

 

[Katarina Von Bora]

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.” (3:16-17)

The main purpose of the study, is to see what Jesus Christ means when He says, “for God so loved the world”. Are we to take these words in their natural meaning, which was so understood for the first three and a half centuries of the Church, and by the leading Greek lexical works, “the whole human race”; or, as some suppose, who claim to follow the teachings of John Calvin, that Jesus here means only “the elect”? I say “natural meaning”, because this is how the Church, till the time of St Augustine in the 4th century, understood Jesus to mean, and apart from the “Calvinists”, is how the rest of Christendom also understand the Jesus’ words. In fact, John Calvin’s own comments on this verse, are very clear to those who are open to the truth, that he could not have believed that Jesus’ use of “world” here, was in any way limited to “the elect”. Here is what Calvin says:
Quote snipped.

Commenting on Mark 14:24, where Jesus says that His death is a “ransom for many”. Calvin says:

“Which is shed for many. By the word many he means not a part of the world only, but the whole human race”

If, as the “Calvinists” teach, that they get their “limited atonement” from John Calvin, then they are clearly deluded! Here is a text that Jesus says that He died for “many”, and yet, you would have expected Calvin to have said, “only for a part”. But in fact, he says that it does not mean this, but Jesus’ words mean, “the whole human race”! I expect there are still those who will hold on to their lies about this doctrine and what Calvin actually taught.

Let us put John 3:16 in to its context, and see if this can indeed be used for the “elect only”. In verses 16 and 17, we find the word "kosmos" used four times, which, as we shall see, when taken together, shall tell us the true meaning of " kosmos " in verse 16.

In verse 17 John says: "For God sent not His Son into the world...", where "kosmos " would no doubt refer to the" earth", as a place. He then goes on to say: "to condemn the world...", which cannot only refer to "the elect", and not to the entire human race. Or else, we must conclude that the rest of mankind (non-elect), will not be judged! What John is here saying, is, that at His first coming, Jesus did not come as the Judge of mankind, but as its Saviour. When He shall come the second time, it will not be to save people from their sins ( as it will be too late), but to Judge the world in righteousness. But, to limit "kosmos" to the elect only, would teach that it was only them whom Christ is coming to Judge! He will "condemn" the world, but not yet. We then read: "but that the world through Him might be saved". Again, if we are to limit "kosmos" to the elect, this part of the text goes against the teaching, that the elect can never lose their salvation. Here, we have the Greek word "sothe" (saved), which is in the subjunctive mood (might), and not the indicative. The former mood is used to describe something that conditional; whereas, the latter is definite, which would read "shall". This part of the text, when applied to the entire world, teaches, that, the world will not be saved (no universal salvation), but might (because there is universal atonement), if they meet the condition, and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, which is further taught in verse eighteen.

Let us finally look at the lexical evidence on the use of “kosmos” used in John 3:16.

J H Thayer:

“the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human race. Jn. i.10, 29, iii.16sq”

W F Arndt and F W Gingrich:

“of all mankind, but especially of believers as objects of God’s love”

J Parkhurst:

“the world, i.e., the whole race of mankind, both believers and unbelievers, both good and bad.”

E Robinson:

“the world for the inhabitants of the earth, men, mankind. John.1.29, 3:16”

Hermann Cremer:

“It denotes the ordered entirety of God’s creation, humanity itself”

The NIV Theological Dictionary of New Testament Words:

“in Jn. kosmos almost always denotes the world of humans, esp. the world of sinful humanity that opposes God, resists the redeeming work of the Son, does not believe in Him”

G Kittel and G Friedrich:

“All the meanings of kosmos come together in the usage of the Fourth Gospel. Not just the Prologue uses kosmos for the world in the sense of the universe”

W E Vine:

“the human race, mankind”

A T Robertson:

The world (ton kosmon). The whole cosmos of men, including Gentiles, the whole human race. This universal aspect of God's love appears also in 2Co 5:19; Rom 5:8”

M Vincent:

“The sum-total of humanity in the world; the human race”


et gloria Dei est

It seems you missed:

1. an apt and harmonious arrangement or constitution, order, government
2. ornament, decoration, adornment, i.e. the arrangement of the stars, 'the heavenly hosts', as the ornament of the heavens. 1 Pet. 3:3
   
   
3. the world, the universe
   
   
4. the circle of the earth, the earth
   
   
5. the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human family
   
   
6. the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ
   
   
7. world affairs, the aggregate of things earthly
   
   1. the whole circle of earthly goods, endowments riches, advantages, pleasures, etc, which although hollow and frail and fleeting, stir desire, seduce from God and are obstacles to the cause of Christ
      
8. any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort
   
   1. the Gentiles as contrasted to the Jews (Rom. 11:12 etc)
      

 

[Katarina Von Bora]

that is because those who hold that the Bible teaches a "limited atonement" cannot justify their position from the Bible itself, and when their position is exposed as being unbiblical, the resort to silly comments. Their own "leader" John Calvin refutes their "theology" as he never taught this doctrine. In fact Jesus Who speaks the words in John 3:16, Himself says that His own death is for "the whole of mankind".

It says no such thing. If Jesus died for the whole of mankind, then everyone would be saved.

Scripture refutes you.

John 15:16: "Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you."

John 1:12,13: "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."

Acts 13:48: "And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed."

Romans 9:15-16: "For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy."

Romans 9:22-24: "What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?"

Ephesians 1:4-5: "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,"

Ephesians 1:11: "In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:"

Philippians 1:29: "For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;"

1 Thessalonians 1:4-5: "Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God. For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake."

2 Thessalonians 2:13: "But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:"

2 Timothy 1:9: "Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,"

Ephesians 2:8-10 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God

John 6:37 - All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

John 6:44 - 4 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

1 Peter 1:2 - Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

 

[Katarina Von Bora]

No it is not. "Reformed" theology has always taught that the death of Jesus Christ in its extent, was only intended for the "elect", and only these could ever be saved. That the "whosoever", is to be taken in a narrow, limited sense, rather than what Jesus Himself intended, "the human race". The salvation of sinners is based on their repentance of their sins, and their acceptance of Jesus Christ as their Saviour, and not on some decree by God before all time to save only some, which is not taught in the Bible!

No, wrong again. Repentance is a gift.

 

[Katarina Von Bora]

Thanks for your reply.
I was not asking about 'eternal security.' In my first question I asked, are you under the impression that there are some on this board who believe that there are some who will believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and yet will nonetheless perish? John 3:16 states that 'God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.' I don't know of anyone who disagrees with that statement; I was wondering if you did.

My second question was about John 3:17. If God sent His Son into the world that the world through Him might be saved, and the world means 'the whole human race,' how come the whole human race is not saved? You replied,

Fair enough, but in that case, 'world' in John 3:17 does not mean 'the whole human race,' does it?

Red bolding mine. It means from every tribe, tongue and nation, not every human who ever lived.

John 6:37 - All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

John 6:44 - 4 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. Are you a pelagian?

 

[Katarina Von Bora]

man has a FREE WILL, there is no failure on God's part, but man's for rejecting God's perfect plan of salvation! Your system cannot grasp what the Bible plainly teaches!

You'll please provide scripture where we are taught that we have free will unto salvation!