JOHN 3:16 - FOR GOD SO LOVES THE WHOLE HUMAN RACE

[MennoSota]

No, your view is way off. Unless the people looked at the serpent, they would not be healed. Likewise, unless the sinner comes to Christ in repentance, they could never be saved!

Romans 3 tells us that no one seeks God, not even one. Therefore humanities goose is cooked. Unless...of course...God makes a person alive in Christ, which then opens a person's eyes.

This is not complicated stuff and it's entirely written down in God's word.

 

[agedman]

Now you're putting words in my mouth I never said. But it does say God hates.

You have this creampuff, pie-in-the-sky Being who just loves, loves, loves. You're no better than the accuser in Romans 9:20 and those who make God into their own image in Romans 1:23.

SovereignGrace, you know my posting better then that to make such a claim of me. It is totally unwarranted and inappropriate.

God is love. He is not the opposite, nor can He be considered as displaying attributes of the fallen nature. The Scriptures use fallen attributes as a way of addressing in human terms a condition or comparison.

Throughout Scriptures, the attribute of the love of God is far beyond human kind. God does not condition His attributes according to situation, station, or by some fallen nature as do humankind.

Through such passages, the words are consistently used as comparison of value, not to be confused with the thinking of complete rejection and nothing to do with hate and despise that human emotions generate As ones who are fallen.

Corinthians thirteen must be rejected if the hate some assign to God is true.

Not a single judgment of God was not conditioned upon His love and His will, be it the cross or the lake of fire.

One further example, the psalms (85) record God as angry, yet in terms of lovingkindness. As a parent, you understand in part what God is in full.

The lovingkindness of God is on full display in eternity as He reveals where the redeemed and the heathen have a place prepared for them. But just be assured, not everyone will be happy. The fallen are never happy with God.

 

[MennoSota]

No, your reasoning is faulty. They had to "look", that is, "do something". likewise the sinner has to "repent".

How can a blind man see?

You are struggling to make your connection and fighting against all of scripture to make it fit.

 

[MennoSota]

don't be silly. You well know that a sinner must "repent" first and then they are saved. You people have a "block" so that you cannot grasp the basics of the Atonement!

Works salvation devoid of grace. Not biblically supported.

 

[MennoSota]

SovereignGrace, you know my posting better then that to make such a claim of me. It is totally unwarranted and inappropriate.

God is love. He is not the opposite, nor can He be considered as displaying attributes of the fallen nature. The Scriptures use fallen attributes as a way of addressing in human terms a condition or comparison.

Throughout Scriptures, the attribute of the love of God is far beyond human kind. God does not condition His attributes according to situation, station, or by some fallen nature as do humankind.

Through such passages, the words are consistently used as comparison of value, not to be confused with the thinking of complete rejection and nothing to do with hate and despise that human emotions generate As ones who are fallen.

Corinthians thirteen must be rejected if the hate some assign to God is true.

Not a single judgment of God was not conditioned upon His love and His will, be it the cross or the lake of fire.

One further example, the psalms (85) record God as angry, yet in terms of lovingkindness. As a parent, you understand in part what God is in full.

The lovingkindness of God is on full display in eternity as He reveals where the redeemed and the heathen have a place prepared for them. But just be assured, not everyone will be happy. The fallen are never happy with God.

You seem to have a faulty and non-biblical concept of love, which you are attempting to force on God.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

Works salvation devoid of grace. Not biblically supported.

"Then God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God relented from the disaster that He had said He would bring upon them, and He did not do it." (Jonah 3:10)

The "works" that accompany salvation is not something that a sinner does so as to "earn" it; but a requirement to be saved. "that they turned" from their sins at the preaching of Jonah, is called a "work", because the sinner must "repent", that is "change their mind and attitude" towards God and their sins, and "accept" God's plan of salvation which is in Jesus Christ alone. It is very clear to those who want to know the truth and not keep kicking at the Word of God because it does not agree with their theology!

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

Romans 3 tells us that no one seeks God, not even one. Therefore humanities goose is cooked. Unless...of course...God makes a person alive in Christ, which then opens a person's eyes.

This is not complicated stuff and it's entirely written down in God's word.

John 16:7-11 has the answer:

"Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: of sin, because they do not believe in Me; of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged"

Here Jesus says that the Coming of the Holy Spirit into the world, was to "convict" the sinner in the world of their sinful state, and the fact that they did not believe in Jesus Christ, but rejected Him. It is that simple!

 

[MennoSota]

"Then God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God relented from the disaster that He had said He would bring upon them, and He did not do it." (Jonah 3:10)

The "works" that accompany salvation is not something that a sinner does so as to "earn" it; but a requirement to be saved. "that they turned" from their sins at the preaching of Jonah, is called a "work", because the sinner must "repent", that is "change their mind and attitude" towards God and their sins, and "accept" God's plan of salvation which is in Jesus Christ alone. It is very clear to those who want to know the truth and not keep kicking at the Word of God because it does not agree with their theology!

How many of those Ninevites are in heaven? You are referencing an earthly sparing of God's judgment at an immediate point in time. Only 100 years later Nineveh was wiped out.

I am amazed at the ludicrous connections I see people attempting to make in order to cling to their own works for salvation.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

How many of those Ninevites are in heaven? You are referencing an earthly sparing of God's judgment at an immediate point in time. Only 100 years later Nineveh was wiped out.

I am amazed at the ludicrous connections I see people attempting to make in order to cling to their own works for salvation.

ALL those who repented at that time! 100 years later these Ninevites could not have been around! I am using the Bible principle for repentance to salvation, which clearly shows that a sinner must "do a work", that is "turn from their sins". Are you saying that the Bible has got this wrong?

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

How can a blind man see?

You are struggling to make your connection and fighting against all of scripture to make it fit.

Acts 28:27, "and they have shut their eyes; otherwise they might see with their eyes and hear with their ears, understand with their heart, and be converted, and I would heal them"

For the sinners to "have shut their eyes" to the Gospel, must mean that THEY WERE OPEN! Notice how the sinner rejects the Gospel, and not that God did not chose them!

 

[MennoSota]

John 16:7-11 has the answer:

"Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: of sin, because they do not believe in Me; of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged"

Here Jesus says that the Coming of the Holy Spirit into the world, was to "convict" the sinner in the world of their sinful state, and the fact that they did not believe in Jesus Christ, but rejected Him. It is that simple!

If, the world, is universal in John 16, then God has utterly failed because very little of our world is convicted of sin. However, the correct understanding is that God will justly judge everyone of us and his judgment will convict us as being guilty and damned to hell. The entire world...including you and me. There is no other conclusion. We are at the mercy of a just and righteous judge. We need someone, outside of us, that is willing to Redeem us and choose to adopt us. Jesus is the only one who can do that and Jesus says that those whom the Father gives Him will come.

No matter what angle you take, God is the only one who can save you. You can beat yourself into submission with whips and chains as you try to atone for your own sins. You will forever miss the mark. Pray then that God chooses to be merciful and gracious to you, a sinner. You are at His mercy.

 

[MennoSota]

ALL those who repented at that time! 100 years later these Ninevites could not have been around! I am using the Bible principle for repentance to salvation, which clearly shows that a sinner must "do a work", that is "turn from their sins". Are you saying that the Bible has got this wrong?

They died in their sins. It was just later than the first date. God relented for a season.
You are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

If, the world, is universal in John 16, then God has utterly failed because very little of our world is convicted of sin. However, the correct understanding is that God will justly judge everyone of us and his judgment will convict us as being guilty and damned to hell. The entire world...including you and me. There is no other conclusion. We are at the mercy of a just and righteous judge. We need someone, outside of us, that is willing to Redeem us and choose to adopt us. Jesus is the only one who can do that and Jesus says that those whom the Father gives Him will come.

No matter what angle you take, God is the only one who can save you. You can beat yourself into submission with whips and chains as you try to atone for your own sins. You will forever miss the mark. Pray then that God chooses to be merciful and gracious to you, a sinner. You are at His mercy.

man has a FREE WILL, there is no failure on God's part, but man's for rejecting God's perfect plan of salvation! Your system cannot grasp what the Bible plainly teaches!

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

They died in their sins. It was just later than the first date. God relented for a season.
You are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

complete rubbish! You are calling God a liar!

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

Thanks for your reply.
I was not asking about 'eternal security.' In my first question I asked, are you under the impression that there are some on this board who believe that there are some who will believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and yet will nonetheless perish? John 3:16 states that 'God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.' I don't know of anyone who disagrees with that statement; I was wondering if you did.

My second question was about John 3:17. If God sent His Son into the world that the world through Him might be saved, and the world means 'the whole human race,' how come the whole human race is not saved? You replied,

Fair enough, but in that case, 'world' in John 3:17 does not mean 'the whole human race,' does it?

I do not think that any sinner who believes in the Lord Jesus Christ for their salvation, and is born-again, will perish.

The words "should not perish" in the Greek, are in the "subjunctive mood", that is "conditional". In this case, "believe" is in the "present, continuance tense", which is the "condition" in this sentence. Hebrews chapters 3 and 4 tell us, that those who did not remain faithful to the Lord, failed to enter into His eternal rest. Which is given as a warning to Christians.

 

[TCassidy]

man has a FREE WILL,

So you don't believe that fallen man is in bondage to the law of sin and death? Romans 8:2.

If so, do you also deny that the saved man is bound to the law of new life in Christ?

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

So you don't believe that fallen man is in bondage to the law of sin and death? Romans 8:2.

If so, do you also deny that the saved man is bound to the law of new life in Christ?

Acts 28:17 plainly tells us that sinners "close their eyes" (action as of the person, not an outside party), to the truth of the Gospel. For them to do this, they must have had them "open"! Here is their "free will" in action. This, my friend, is the Word of God.

 

[MennoSota]

Acts 28:27, "and they have shut their eyes; otherwise they might see with their eyes and hear with their ears, understand with their heart, and be converted, and I would heal them"

For the sinners to "have shut their eyes" to the Gospel, must mean that THEY WERE OPEN! Notice how the sinner rejects the Gospel, and not that God did not chose them!

Nice of you to bring up this excellent passage on God's Sovereign choice to harden hearts. Let us look.

Notice that in the conversation some believed and others didn't. This was by ordination of God.

Now look at Paul's response to those whom God had hardened their hearts.
They CANNOT...
1) Comprehend
2)Hear
3) See
4) Understand
5) Turn to God

The very passage you quote proves your view to be utterly and hopelessly wrong.

Acts of the Apostles 28:23-27
[23]So a time was set, and on that day a large number of people came to Paul’s lodging. He explained and testified about the Kingdom of God and tried to persuade them about Jesus from the Scriptures. Using the law of Moses and the books of the prophets, he spoke to them from morning until evening.
[24]Some were persuaded by the things he said, but others did not believe.
[25]And after they had argued back and forth among themselves, they left with this final word from Paul: “The Holy Spirit was right when he said to your ancestors through Isaiah the prophet,
[26]‘Go and say to this people: When you hear what I say, you will not understand. When you see what I do, you will not comprehend.
[27]For the hearts of these people are hardened, and their ears cannot hear, and they have closed their eyes— so their eyes cannot see, and their ears cannot hear, and their hearts cannot understand, and they cannot turn to me and let me heal them.’

 

[MennoSota]

man has a FREE WILL, there is no failure on God's part, but man's for rejecting God's perfect plan of salvation! Your system cannot grasp what the Bible plainly teaches!

Not once is free will talked about in the Bible. Instead you see God graciously choosing to act from Genesis to Revelation. It is all God and not one speck of your utterly depraved being that saves you. You are completely at the good and gracious mercy of God. Any attempt to add human effort is an anathema to God's glory. You should be ashamed of your disrespect toward God.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

Nice of you to bring up this excellent passage on God's Sovereign choice to harden hearts. Let us look.

Notice that in the conversation some believed and others didn't. This was by ordination of God.

Now look at Paul's response to those whom God had hardened their hearts.
They CANNOT...
1) Comprehend
2)Hear
3) See
4) Understand
5) Turn to God

The very passage you quote proves your view to be utterly and hopelessly wrong.

Acts of the Apostles 28:23-27
[23]So a time was set, and on that day a large number of people came to Paul’s lodging. He explained and testified about the Kingdom of God and tried to persuade them about Jesus from the Scriptures. Using the law of Moses and the books of the prophets, he spoke to them from morning until evening.
[24]Some were persuaded by the things he said, but others did not believe.
[25]And after they had argued back and forth among themselves, they left with this final word from Paul: “The Holy Spirit was right when he said to your ancestors through Isaiah the prophet,
[26]‘Go and say to this people: When you hear what I say, you will not understand. When you see what I do, you will not comprehend.
[27]For the hearts of these people are hardened, and their ears cannot hear, and they have closed their eyes— so their eyes cannot see, and their ears cannot hear, and their hearts cannot understand, and they cannot turn to me and let me heal them.’

can you read? "they have closed their eyes— so their eyes cannot see". The action in the Greek here is the people "closing their OWN eyes", and not God!

In Matthews Gospel, chapter 13:14-15, (as in Acts 28:17) the quotation agree with the LXX (Greek Old Testament) of Isaiah 6:10, in regarding the verbs in the third person plural of the indicative mood, so that it is the people themselves who perform the actions named; in the Hebrew of Isaiah 6:10, the verbs are in the second person singular, of the imperative mood, so that the prophet is commanded to perform the actions named. In John 12:40, it is the third person singular, of the indicative mood, where the actions are referred to God!

Man clearly has a responsibility in either ACCEPTING or REJECTING the Gospel of Jesus Christ