canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Are you suggesting that Eve and Satan had intimate relations which produced Cain and Abel?
peace to you
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John 3:16 Study
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peace to you
The thing that makes Jesus unique is his virgin birth. He is different from Adam, who was a trinitarian man, possessing the life of God, his Spirit, in his body from his special creation until he deliberately sinned and consequently died spiritually , and later physically. He is different from the next man who possessed the life of God, the Spirit, in his body, who would have been the apostles in the upper room in Jerusalem in the evening of the day Jesus Christ rose from the dead, as recorded in John 20. This is the spiritual birth for these men. I will quote it to you;
Jn 20:1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.
Jn 20:9 For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead.
Jn 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. 20 And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord. 21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: 23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained. 24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. 25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
The part I have highlighted is Jesus giving his apostles his own authority on earth because he was indwelling them that day in the person of his own divine Spirit. God the Father sent him with his own Spirit and authority. Jesus likewise sent them with his own Spirit and authority. We see this authority in action over devils and men and the world as they fulfill their ministry of preaching as recorded in the history in the book of Acts. The Spirit in them is what was different about them and they were born again when they received him.
The point I am making, and what the scriptures is making is that God is accomplishing his purpose of redemption through men. The emphasis of the gospel of John is that Jesus is a man but he is a man whose Father is God. Yea, conveying that truth is the very reason for the gospel of John being written. It is a foundational doctrine and must be received and believed before one believes in the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is the only son of God from his physical birth because he was begotten of God.
John 20:30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
He is not a Spirit.
He is not an angel.
He is not invisible.
He is a man, who was and is the Son of God in the flesh and God sent him because he loved mankind and wanted to save us and only a man could save men from the penalty of their sins, which is the second death in the lake of fire for all eternity. It was a man on that cross dying for us in our place and that man was the virgin born Son of God.
It is so important to know and believe that the uniqueness of Jesus is that he is the only begotten Son of God. So my accusation of your thinking, and the manner in which these producers of your bibles in diminishing the importance of Jesus being the only begotten Son of God, stands. It is a devilish way to present John 3:16.
Good Golly, I provided four things that make Jesus unique and you did not address three of them. I showed that Jesus is not the only begotten and you did not address that truth. Pointless to continue...
Three out of four of your points addressed the uniqueness of Jesus Christ as his virgin birth. So, why take away that which makes him unique in the text and in the theme of the gospel account and the words of Jesus Christ?
Below are the three points;
His being begotten of God is his uniqueness in your points.
Point 4
John 3:16 tells us that God sent him to save us. That puts the context in the realm of humanity. It is important that his being the God Man be the emphasis of this uniqueness. He is the only "begotten" Son of God. His dying for us will be as a man because God cannot die. Physical men can be born again by receiving the divine Spirit of Jesus Christ, who is the life of God, and who was absent from his body when he endured the wrath of God against sin on his body when he hung on the cross. He is the only man who could ever take away our sins, not having any of his own.
1Pe 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
Glory to his name.
Pointless to continue...
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Are you suggesting God the Father had an intimate relation with Mary and that is what produced the child, Jesus?
peace to you
Do you guys ever think anything through?
The Genesis account introduces us to the fact that the seed, not a seed, of the woman, will destroy the principle of sin, the Devil.
This means that a man will have nothing to do with his coming. However, he will come into the world through a physical birth. He will come into the world via a virgin. I trust you know what a virgin is. I believe he came by the virgin as much as I believe he was sinless after 33 years of living among men. I believe what the Bible says about him.
How Mary conceived is something I do not know beyond what I am told in the scriptures.
Lu 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
This is the Trinity here. 1) The Highest, God the Father, the Holy Ghost, the Son of God, Jesus Christ.
What I am sure of is that there was no sexual act because Jesus was born of a virgin.
If you desire to understand what it means to overshadow, then do a word search and a comparison. The understanding is in the words.
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The Greek word, transliterated as "Monogenes" literally means "one of a kind." What makes Jesus the "one of a kind" uniquely divine Son when there are other sons of God such as Adam and every born anew believer?
Jesus is uniquely divine in these and other ways:
1) God incarnate -
John 1:14: And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us; and we saw His glory, glory as of the uniquely divine Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
2) God with us -
Matthew 1:23: "“BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN WILL CONCEIVE AND GIVE BIRTH TO A SON, AND THEY SHALL NAME HIM IMMANUEL,” which translated means, “GOD WITH US.”
3) Virgin birth -
Matthew 1:23: “BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN WILL CONCEIVE AND GIVE BIRTH TO A SON, AND THEY SHALL NAME HIM IMMANUEL,” which translated means, “GOD WITH US.”
4) Holy One of God -
Mark 1:24: saying, “What ]business do you have with us, Jesus ]of Nazareth? Have You come to destroy us? I know who You are: the Holy One of God!”
5) Jesus is the only way to God -
John 14:6: Jesus *said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father except through Me.
Jesus is uniquely divine in these and other ways:
1) God incarnate -
John 1:14: And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us; and we saw His glory, glory as of the uniquely divine Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
2) God with us -
Matthew 1:23: "“BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN WILL CONCEIVE AND GIVE BIRTH TO A SON, AND THEY SHALL NAME HIM IMMANUEL,” which translated means, “GOD WITH US.”
3) Virgin birth -
Matthew 1:23: “BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN WILL CONCEIVE AND GIVE BIRTH TO A SON, AND THEY SHALL NAME HIM IMMANUEL,” which translated means, “GOD WITH US.”
4) Holy One of God -
Mark 1:24: saying, “What ]business do you have with us, Jesus ]of Nazareth? Have You come to destroy us? I know who You are: the Holy One of God!”
5) Jesus is the only way to God -
John 14:6: Jesus *said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father except through Me.
Studied Rendering of John 3:16:
God loved humanity in this way, He gave is uniquely divine Son so that everyone believing into Him would not perish but have eternal life.
Everyone credited with righteously believing in Christ will not perish but have everlasting life united with Christ, thus believing "into" Him.
God loved humanity in this way, He gave is uniquely divine Son so that everyone believing into Him would not perish but have eternal life.
Everyone credited with righteously believing in Christ will not perish but have everlasting life united with Christ, thus believing "into" Him.
This is incorrect. In chapter 1 Jesus is called the μονογενὴς θεὸς. The uniqueness of Jesus goes beyond His physical body. Jesus' uniqueness is seen in the fact that He is the only person that is truly man and truly God. Not me, not you, not the Father, nor the Holy Spirit exists like Jesus. He alone is unique among everything in existence.
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canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Thanks for clarifying. You could have simply stated “no”, but you did eventually get to it.
Now, to the previous question. Are you suggesting Satan had intimate relations with Eve and produced Cain and Abel?
A simple yes or no will be sufficient.
peace to you
George Antonios
Well-Known Member
No one limited his uniqueness to that. But John 3:16's focus is on the flesh of Jesus, by definition, since it is his flesh that is begotten...again, by definition.
I am suggesting they had intimate relations with she putting Satan before God resulting in the same relationship as as this ( And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; From Jer 3:8) And what did Adam do ? Enter the passage from Matt 19 He knew her, Took her to wife. Enter from Matt 19:9 and he who did marry her that hath been put away, doth commit adultery.
Ate, of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. It sure wasn't the tree of life.
In your opinion, was the woman taken from the man a virgin?
From Gen 4:1,2 YLT And the man knew Eve his wife, and she conceiveth and beareth Cain, and saith, 'I have gotten a man by (with, from) Jehovah;' and she addeth to bear his brother, even Abel.
Could Mary have said the same thing, 'I have gotten a man by (with, from) Jehovah;' and called his name Jesus?
And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: From Luke 1:31,32
Matt 1:18 YLT And of Jesus Christ, the birth was thus: For his mother Mary having been betrothed to Joseph, before their coming together she was found to have conceived from the Holy Spirit, -- ? out of Spirit of Holy ---- ?? Is that the same God is Spirit spoken of in John 4:23,24 the Son said was Father?
John 4:23,24 ἀλλ᾽ ἔρχεται ὥρα καὶ νῦν ἐστιν ὅτε οἱ ἀληθινοὶ προσκυνηταὶ προσκυνήσουσιν τῷ πατρὶ ἐν πνεύματι καὶ ἀληθείᾳ· καὶ γὰρ ὁ πατὴρ τοιούτους ζητεῖ τοὺς προσκυνοῦντας αὐτόν πνεῦμα ὁ θεός καὶ τοὺς προσκυνοῦντας αὐτὸν ἐν πνεύματι καὶ ἀληθείᾳ δεῖ προσκυνεῖν
BTW I am talking about a unique Son one of a kind the only begotten of the Father.
Thoughts?
Question for all relative to my posts above. Did God know before the foundation of the world exactly what was going to take place in the garden of Eden concerning the man and woman of flesh and blood?
In the fulness of time. Redemption
Rom 7:14 for we have known that the law is spiritual, (and of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou dost not eat of it, for in the day of thine eating of it -- dying thou dost die.')
and I am fleshly, sold by the sin;
Seeing, then, the children (of Adam) have partaken of flesh and blood, he himself also in like manner did take part of the same, that through death he might destroy him having the power of death -- that is, the devil --
1 Peter 18-20 having known that, not with corruptible things -- silver or gold -- were ye redeemed from your foolish behaviour delivered by fathers, ( beginning with Adam)
but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and unspotted -- Christ's -- foreknown, indeed, before the foundation of the world, and manifested in the last times because of you,
In the fulness of time. Redemption
Rom 7:14 for we have known that the law is spiritual, (and of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou dost not eat of it, for in the day of thine eating of it -- dying thou dost die.')
and I am fleshly, sold by the sin;
Seeing, then, the children (of Adam) have partaken of flesh and blood, he himself also in like manner did take part of the same, that through death he might destroy him having the power of death -- that is, the devil --
1 Peter 18-20 having known that, not with corruptible things -- silver or gold -- were ye redeemed from your foolish behaviour delivered by fathers, ( beginning with Adam)
but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and unspotted -- Christ's -- foreknown, indeed, before the foundation of the world, and manifested in the last times because of you,
Do you hold to the Nicene Creed? If so, how do you deal with them applying "begotten" to the personhood of the Son, not the physical body?
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Was the Son made flesh
or
was the Word made flesh?
All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one flesh of men, and another flesh of beasts, and another of fishes, and another of birds;. 1 Cor 15:39
As? Of man?
What of the woman is her seed?
No, but this question is so out of the blue and over the top that I it makes me ask you to explain your thinking in asking it. I surely did not even hint that I believe such a ridiculous thing. I did not mention Cain or Abel or even hint at these people or at your suggested impossibility. I mentioned a prophecy concerning the seed of the woman who is Jesus Christ from Gen 3:15.
I must tell you that my head went into the spin mode big time when I saw that question.
so thank you in advance for explaining yourself.
George Antonios
Well-Known Member
That's a fair question. I suppose you have in mind the Niceno-Constantinopolitan amended form of the creed.
The creed is mistaken when it states "begotten of the Father before all worlds".
Christ the Word proceeded from God "before all worlds", of course, but Christ the Son is a reference to his body. Jesus is the incarnational Son of God, by definition. Christ is eternal as the Word, not as the Son. As the Word he is God, as the Son he is man.
The creed actually contradicts its own statement right after as it unwittingly corrects itself when declaring "and was incarnate by the Holy Ghost of the Virgin Mary"...exactly, "was incarnate" is the "begotten" part, again, by definition.
Of course, the creed is wrong on other points such as:
1) describing Mary as "The Virgin", a titular RCC description foreign to the word of God where she is simply a virgin and which did not remain one.
2) apparently positing a single future resurrection and judgment when the scriptures reveal more than one resurrection and judgment
3) implying that the remission of sins is by water baptism, which is definitely not true during the church-age.
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