Justification from everlasting !

[Dr. Walter]

dw



I am not forcing anything, Christ existed before Adam did, And the Elect by the Purpose of God were in Christ before the world began,

Be consistent with your own logic! Adam existed in the DIVINE PURPOSE of God before the world began and therefore all humanity was IN ADAM before the world began in regard to DIVINE PURPOSE just as EQUALLY as the elect were IN CHRIST in the DIVINE PURPOSE of God before the world began.

Therefore according to your logic about the DIVINE PURPOSE and the reality and existent union the elect had with Christ is equally applicable to ALL HUMAN BEINGS and their union with Adam BEFORE the World began. In order to be consistent you must admit that ALL HUMANITY had as much real and existence in Adam as the elect had in Christ. Therefore, according to your line of logic Adam had real existence in eternity as much as Christ had real existence in eternity as your definition of DIVINE PURPOSE equals real existence before created matter.

Can you deny that Adam and all mankind existed in the MIND of God before Creation??? Not according to your line of logic you can't. Hence, they had as much REAL EXISTENCE and as much UNION as the elect did.

 

[savedbymercy]

Be consistent with your own logic! Adam existed in the DIVINE PURPOSE of God before the world began and therefore all humanity was IN ADAM before the world began in regard to DIVINE PURPOSE just as EQUALLY as the elect were IN CHRIST in the DIVINE PURPOSE of God before the world began.

Christ existed as A Being before Adam did. In Fact, Christ was the Medium by which Adam was Created..Col 1:16

When Christ created Adam Gen 1:26, Christ was then the Head of The Church, they had been Chosen in Him already. Eph 1:4

 

[Dr. Walter]

Christ existed as A Being before Adam did. In Fact, Christ was the Medium by which Adam was Created..Col 1:16

Stop running! You have already argued to your black and blue that Christ is GOD and God's THOUGHTS are as real and existent before creation as after creation. Hence, that logic demands Adam was as EXISTENT and as REAL as God's Thoughts. Are God's THOUGHTS no more than thoughts or are they REAL and EXISTENT as you claim over and over?????? If so, was Adam in God's THOUGHTS?

All humans were IN ADAM in God's THOUGHTS and so all humans must have been in SPIRITUAL UNION with Adam as conceived in God's MIND (which makes him existent and real just as the elect were existent and real in God's MIND).

Are there some things MORE REAL and EXISTENT in God's mind than other things?

Are the elect MORE REAL and EXISTENT in God's mind than Adam or those CONCEIVED IN GOD's mind to be "in Adam" before the world began?

You have already taught the rediculous doctrine that the humanity of Christ was created by God before the world began and so that means the elect could not have been in ETERNAL UNION with Jesus Christ the man, because your own doctrine denies the ETERNAL existence of Jesus Christ the man - you have the man Jesus Christ created and anything created has a beginning point.

One false doctrine leads to a mess of false doctrines.

 

[savedbymercy]

Lambs book of Life !

In line with this truth of Justification from everlasting, I believe that the Justified had their names written in the Lambs book of life at the same date that God purposed that their sins would be sentenced upon Christ, and that He must die their death, and for them to live through Him. 1 Jn 4:9

In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

Notice that God sent His Son. When was it determined that He would be sent and that the elect would live [spiritually] through Him ? I believe it was determined in the Eternal Purpose in Christ Eph 3:11

11According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

Which had to do with the Everlasting Covenant Heb 13:20

20Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

I see the Eternal Purpose and the Everlasting Covenant as the Same !

I believe all whom had their names written in the Lambs book of Life from the foundation, were Justified from all things, as early !

Rev 21:27

And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

 

[savedbymercy]

Slain from the foundation !


That God had made a Judicial decision not to punish the elect for their sins [Justification] but to impute them unto Christ, in order that He may bear the Justice of them, is seen from the words we read "slain from the foundation " Rev 13:8

8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

This is a revelation of the Mind and Purpose of God ! The word slain here is in the greek a perfect passive participle, and denotes that He had been slain once and for all in the Past with results or effects into the present. And by it being from the foundation denotes its none association with time, as it pertains to what is True in the Mind Of God. That is, Christ death in time did not have to yet occur for the reality of it and its benefits were real in God's Reckoning.

Its like what Paul states in Rom 4:17

17(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not[In time] as though they were[already happened].

So from the foundation, Christ had already died for the sins of those He was to die for in God's reckoning, and so they had to be Justified or reconciled to God by His Death as Early in God's Mind. Because scripture states Rom 5:10

10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

" we were reconciled to God by the death or slaying of His Son " So according to what we see of Rev 13:8, they were Reconciled to God from the foundation ! And to be Reconciled is to be Justified !

 

[jygf77]

Notice that justification is through faith. There is no justification apart from faith.

How can you say such a thing when the Scriptures plainly and clearly say, “… people are justified by works and not by faith alone.” James 2:24

Granted, we are not justified by works of the law. “… people not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ.” Galatians 2:16 Nonetheless, we are justified by works. The works of the law are just the ceremonial works of the old testament law, not all works of obedience. When Paul speaks of faith "apart from works" in Romans 4 the context is the works of the law (he even cites circumcision and says "works of the law" once or twice). Such faith "apart from works of the law" is not necessarily “faith alone” because it can (and indeed must) still be joined with works that are not of the law. Those are the types of works James cites in James 2... works of obedience and love for God that were not listed in the law.

Believe it or don't but Scripture plainly says it. We are justified by both faith *and* by what we do. Regardless, always keep in mind First Corinthians 6:11, “…you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.” Are faith and are works are all gifts from our glorious Father. Everything we have we owe to His grace. d that the truth is so simple.

 

[Dr. Walter]

How can you say such a thing when the Scriptures plainly and clearly say, “… people are justified by works and not by faith alone.” James 2:24

Granted, we are not justified by works of the law. “… people not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ.” Galatians 2:16 Nonetheless, we are justified by works. The works of the law are just the ceremonial works of the old testament law, not all works of obedience. When Paul speaks of faith "apart from works" in Romans 4 the context is the works of the law (he even cites circumcision and says "works of the law" once or twice). Such faith "apart from works of the law" is not necessarily “faith alone” because it can (and indeed must) still be joined with works that are not of the law. Those are the types of works James cites in James 2... works of obedience and love for God that were not listed in the law.

Believe it or don't but Scripture plainly says it. We are justified by both faith *and* by what we do. Regardless, always keep in mind First Corinthians 6:11, “…you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.” Are faith and are works are all gifts from our glorious Father. Everything we have we owe to His grace. d that the truth is so simple.

No sir! We are not justified by ANY works we produce but only by the works of Jesus Christ produced in His own life and death (2 Cor. 5:21).

Note the context of James and the words "shew me.....shew you." God does not need for us to shew him anything as He is omniscient. Works justify our profession ("a man may SAY....") before MEN not God. Abraham was justified before his son and servants and all who read his account. Raham was justified before the two spies and all Israel by the red cord and all who read her story.

The works of the Law are the works prescribed by the Law to measure up to the "glory of God" or the standard of righteousness found in the very Person of God which all have "come short" - that is what sin is - coming short of the righteousness found in the person of God. That is the kind of righteousness YOU NEED to be received into heaven (Mt. 5:20;46) and you can NEVER work that up or work that out in your life and that is precisely why it must be "of faith" and faith is not "of the law" (Gal. 3:12; Rom. 4:16) but faith which has for its object the Person and redemptive works of Jesus Christ alone (Rom. 3:24-26). Take a look at the scriptures I gave before responding - look before leaping.

 

[savedbymercy]

An Everlasting Salvation !

Isa 45:17

But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

Israel here is merely All of God's Elect, Chosen In Christ [Israel] before the foundation !

When is an Elect Person, Chosen in Christ ? Before the foundation Eph 1:4

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

When are they saved ? Now this is going to shock most if not all of you, but an Elect one Chosen in Christ before the foundation, they have been saved from everlasting !

Everlasting has regard to no beginning and no ending Prov 8:23

23 I [Christ the wisdom of God] was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.

So what does that mean if we were Chosen in Christ before the foundation ? How long have we existed ?

Lets look at Ps 103:17

17But the mercy of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;

Notice that David writes under the inspiration of God, that the Mercy of the LORD is FROM EVERLASTING, upon certain individuals " Those who are fearing Him in Time" to Everlasting.

Now are the Elect saved by Mercy ? Yes Titus 3:5

5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

What can be more plainer ? When in God's Estimation were the Elect not reckoned as Vessels of Mercy ? Rom 9:22-23

22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

The Elect in the Eternal Purpose of God, have always been Saved by His Mercy in Christ, from Everlasting to Everlasting !

 

[Dr. Walter]

An Everlasting Salvation !

The Elect in the Eternal Purpose of God, have always been Saved by His Mercy in Christ, from Everlasting to Everlasting !

Yes, and they have always been regenerated ("called") and justified and glorified and thus completely sanctified as well. However, none of this has any REALITY in time or space or in conjunction with the persons of the elect before creation except as the divine determinate IDEA or THOUGHT! You just can't get that can you?

You just as well argue that we were never at any time unregenerated because according to God's purpose we were always "called" in God's mind and thus in reality.

You just as well as argue we were never at anytime sinful because according to God's purpose we were always "glorified" in God's mind and thus in reality.

You just as well as argue we were never at anytime lost because according to God's purpose we were always "saved" in God's mind and thus in reality.

All of the above must be just as equally true as your claim we were never at any time condemned because according to God's purpose we were always "justified" in God's mind and thus in reality.

However, common sense is something foreign to your way of thinking.

 

[savedbymercy]

dw

All of the above must be just as equally true as your claim we were never at any time condemned because according to God's purpose we were always "justified" in God's mind and thus in reality.

God's Elect in God's Mind were never condemned, they have always been in Christ and preserved, and the condemnation that they incurred per their sin in Adam in time, because they were always in Christ their Head and Surety, that condemnation was laid to Christ charge, not theirs.

Christ became the Surety of the Elect in the Everlasting Covenant Heb 7:22

22By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

As soon as one becomes a Surety for another, those others are freed from all obligation and accountability. So when Christ agreed or struck hands with the Father as the Surety of the Elect, even before the worlds were made.

You deny this and you deny a portion of the Everlasting Gospel.. You deny a foundation of the Gospel of Christ !

For the Lord Jesus Christ was in the Mind and Purpose of God, the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world, if He looked upon His Son as slain, then He looked upon Him as the propitiation and satisfaction for their sins, and He looked upon them as redeemed and Justified by His Blood and His Grace !

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Hello SavedByMercy,
I appreciate your desire to magnify God's grace and omnipotence, But your idea of Justification from Eternity simply does not stack up with the Biblical data.

I have previously cited Isaiah 12:1, but have you also considered 1Peter 2:9-10? '....That you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvellous light; who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but have now obtained mercy.' If these people were justified from eternity, when was it that they had not obtained mercy?

The danger of Justification from Eternity is that people may be inclined to think of salvation as something that happens automatically or mechanistically, and it may lead to Antinomianism and Hyper-calvinism. I don't accuse you of either of these, but some will ask, if everything has already happened in Eternity Past, why does one need to bother with repentance, Godly living or preaching the Gospel?

Steve

 

[Dr. Walter]

dw



God's Elect in God's Mind were never condemned, they have always been in Christ and preserved, and the condemnation that they incurred per their sin in Adam in time, because they were always in Christ their Head and Surety, that condemnation was laid to Christ charge, not theirs.

Christ became the Surety of the Elect in the Everlasting Covenant Heb 7:22

22By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

As soon as one becomes a Surety for another, those others are freed from all obligation and accountability. So when Christ agreed or struck hands with the Father as the Surety of the Elect, even before the worlds were made.

You deny this and you deny a portion of the Everlasting Gospel.. You deny a foundation of the Gospel of Christ !

For the Lord Jesus Christ was in the Mind and Purpose of God, the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world, if He looked upon His Son as slain, then He looked upon Him as the propitiation and satisfaction for their sins, and He looked upon them as redeemed and Justified by His Blood and His Grace !

If you argue that we were eternally "justified" and never were condemned because we were "justified" in God's eternal purpose, then how in the world can you deny that we were eternally "called" and never unregenerated because we were "called" in God's eternal purpose AND/OR deny that we were eternally glorfied and never have sinned because we are glorified in God's eternal purpose??

You cannot pick one out and reject the rest because they are ALL EQUALLY found in God's eternal purpose!!! Be consistent with your own use of Scriptures and logic!

 

[savedbymercy]

dw

If you argue that we were eternally "justified" and never were condemned because we were "justified" in God's eternal purpose,

The Elect never had their sins charged to them, their sins beginning with Adam, where charged to Christ ! Cant you get that in your head ? Christ was made their Surety before they were ever created Adam.

then how in the world can you deny that we were eternally "called

Where have I denied such a thing ? Please point out the post !

and never unregenerated because we were

Where did I say the elect were never unregenerated ? I have said they sinned in Adam, I have stated they were born children of wrath BY NATURE even as others, I have stated they were enemies to God by Nature by wicked works in the mind. They were all that, but they were still Justified.

AND/OR deny that we were eternally glorified

Where did I deny that ?

and never have sinned

You are a liar, show us where I said the elect never have sinned because they were Eternally Justified. If you can not back up these lies and slander , you should be ashamed.

This is a poor excuse for refuting what I have proven by scripture. Just lies and misrepresentations !

 

[savedbymercy]

martin

But your idea of Justification from Eternity simply does not stack up with the Biblical data.

Yes it does, what you think I have been quoting in all my posts, the newspapers ?

have previously cited Isaiah 12:1, but have you also considered 1Peter 2:9-10? '....That you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvellous light; who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but have now obtained mercy.' If these people were justified from eternity, when was it that they had not obtained mercy?

None of this refutes Eternal Justfication, show us how if you can. The elect obtain mercy in time ! They obtain salvation in time, that does not say they were not eternally Justified.

2 tim 2:10

Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

They obtain Faith 2 Pet 1:1

1Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

The elect obtain many spiritual blessings in time as fruit and evidence of their Eternal Justification..

You have not disproved anything.

 

[Dr. Walter]

dw



The Elect never had their sins charged to them, their sins beginning with Adam, where charged to Christ ! Cant you get that in your head ? Christ was made their Surety before they were ever created Adam.

So, the premise for my comparison is correct but you contradict yourself when the same premise is applied to "called" and "glorified" and you contradict yourself most glaringly. So glaringly, that I don't think any other reader on this forum fails to see it but YOU! You prove my point by the very next affirmation you make below in regard to "called."

Where have I denied such a thing ? Please point out the post !

I take this to mean you do in fact believe the elect were eternally regenerated "called" and that you are challenging me to show proof where you have ever denied this! Correct?

So, the elect were "regenerated" (called) equally as they were "justified" in eternity past because they are both equally found in God's eternal purpose! Correct? So, if being found in God's eternal purpose makes them ACTUAL in God's mind, so actual that YOU can demand that the elect were ETERNALLY Justified so as to NEVER be condemned, then how on earth can you deny that the same logic that you apply to "justified" in God's purpose is not true of "called" regenerated or "glorified" in God's Purpose??????

The same logic that demands the reality of ETERNAL justification BECAUSE "justified" is found in God's eternal purpose (Rom. 8:30) must equally demand that "called" and "glorified" are EQUAL REALITIES and therefore ETERNAL Regeneration and ETERNAL glorification.

The same logic that demands that ETERNAL JUSTIFICATION means the elect have NEVER been under condemnation AT ANY TIME must equally demand that the elect have NEVER been UNREGENERATED AT ANY TIME and NEVER sinned (unglorified) AT ANY TIME.

Your logic with justification demands the same logic with "called" and "glorification." If you demand that the elect HAVE NEVER BEEN CONDEMNED at any time, then they have NEVER BEEN UNREGENERATED at any time as well because they have been ETERNALLY REGENERATED "called", and NEVER HAVE SINNED at any time because they have been ETERNALLY GLORIFIED.

If you concede that the elect have actually sinned and have actually been unregenerated then you must also admit the elect have actually been under condemnation because ALL THREE stand on the same basis as ALL THREE are equally found in God's eternal purpose before the world began.

If ETERNAL JUSTIFICATION means the elect NEVER AT ANY TIME were under condemnation then ETERNAL REGENERATION means the elect NEVER AT ANY TIME were unregenerated and then ETERNAL GLORIFICATION means the elect were NEVER AT ANY TIME sinners (unglorified).

If you deny that the elect were NEVER AT ANY TIME sinners (unglorified) you must equally deny the elect were NEVER AT ANY TIME under condemnation because both are equally in the eternal purpose of God before creation and both are EQUALLY as realistic to God as the other.

If you deny that the elect were NEVER AT ANY TIME unregenerated, you must equally deny the elect were NEVER AT ANY TIME under condemnation because both are equally in the eternal purpose of God before creation and both are EQUALLY as realistic to God as the other.


I don't think you have a clue to what I have just said? Look at your own responses below:

Where did I say the elect were never unregenerated ? I have said they sinned in Adam, I have stated they were born children of wrath BY NATURE even as others, I have stated they were enemies to God by Nature by wicked works in the mind. They were all that, but they were still Justified.

Well, were they still eternally "called" as well? Were they equally "called" in God's eternal purpose as they were "justified"?? Both are equally found in Romans 8:30!!! How can you claim that eternal justification means the elect NEVER AT ANY TIME under condemnation but then out of the other side of your mouth deney that ETERNALLY CALLED (regenerated) does not demand the very same thing - that they were NEVER AT ANY TIME unregenerated??? However, that is exactly what you do in the above quote! You are speaking out of both sides of your mouth! You are picking one (justified) and saying it is eternal and thus never under condemnation at any time but rejecting the other (called) to have the same implication - they were never unregenerated at any time.

You are a liar

You are the one speaking out of both sides of your mouth at the same time, not I. You are the one claiming ETERNAL JUSTIFICATION means the elect NEVER WERE AT ANY TIME under condemnation but ETERNAL GLORIFICATION does not mean the elect were NEVER AT ANY TIME unglorified or ETERNALLY CALLED does not mean the elect were NEVER AT ANY TIME unregenerated!!!!

The truth is, IF "eternal justification" must mean the elect were never at any time under condemnation then the same is true with "eternal called" and "eternal glorified" and thus the elect were never at any time unregenerated (uncalled) or sinners (unglorified).

The truth is IF "eternal called" means they were unregenerated in time and space then "eternal justified" means they were under condemnation in time and space. IF "eternal glorified" means they were sinners in time and space then "eternal justified" means they were under condemnation in time and space.

Do you even understand what I have said?

 

[savedbymercy]

dw

How can you claim that eternal justification means the elect NEVER AT ANY TIME under condemnation

They weren't, Christ had their condemnation imputed to Him the moment He became their Surety in the Everlasting Covenant. God never imputed their trespasses unto them, Paul preached that here 2 Cor 5:19

19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

dw

Well, were they still eternally "called" as well?

Dont dodge the accusation, where did I state as you have falsely accused, that the elect were never unregenerated ? Did I state that or did you lie ?

 

[Dr. Walter]

dw



They weren't, Christ had their condemnation imputed to Him the moment He became their Surety in the Everlasting Covenant.

There is no "moment he became" in an EVERLASTING covenant or it is not EVERLASTING! You admit to this by your next statement below when you say:

God never imputed their trespasses unto them

Instead of hurrying through my last post and picking a spot to comment, go back and read until you understand what I said. You have no clue what I said or you would not be mouthing the nonsensical statement below.

Dont dodge the accusation, where did I state as you have falsely accused, that the elect were never unregenerated ? Did I state that or did you lie ?

You are either an extremely ignorant man who cannot comprehend what is written to you or you do understand and you are intentionally dodging the evidence placed smack between your eyes. Go back and reread my previous post until you can understand it and respond to it with some common sense.

 

[savedbymercy]

dw

There is no "moment he became" in an EVERLASTING covenant or it is not EVERLASTING!

The moment was from Everlasting. Yes there was a moment in Eternity when Christ became the Surety of the Elect, however the computation of time in Eternity is impossible for us creatures to figure out, but its accepted by God given Faith, that Christ became a Surety Heb 7:22

22By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

When was he made a Surety of a better Covenant ? From Everlasting, and thats how Long the Elect have been Justified, if there was an Everlasting Covenant, from everlasing.

So your semantics mean nothing here, but that you have not been given faith to believe the Truth..

Instead of hurrying through my last post and picking a spot to comment, go back and read until you understand what I said. You have no clue what I said or you would not be mouthing the nonsensical statement below.

All your comments are worthless and contrary to the Truth. God never imputed the condemnation of the sins of the elect unto them, but He imputed it to Christ their Surety. 2 Cor 5:19

19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

You are either an extremely ignorant man who cannot comprehend what is written to you or you do understand and you are intentionally dodging the evidence placed smack between your eyes. Go back and reread my previous post until you can understand it and respond to it with some common sense.

So as I figured, you are just a liar, and cannot produce a quote that states what you said I stated.

 

[savedbymercy]

Being Justified freely by His Grace !



Romans 3:24

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

This Grace whereby those whom Christ died for, and by which they are Justified before God, was given them in Christ Jesus before the world began 2 Tim 1:9

9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Everyone Christ died for, God out of Grace towards them through Jesus Christ, declares them Justified freely without any cause.

The word freely here in the text is the greek word dōrean and means:

undeservedly, without cause. The word is translated without a cause here Jn 15:25

25But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.

There is not a cause within them why God Freely Justified them by His Grace, the Merit is in Christ Jesus, His Redemptive work. Its nothing they did such as believing, nor repentance or water baptism, absolutely nothing they did, said or even thought, but entirely through what Christ did for them.

Christ was slain for them in God's Purpose before the foundation Rev 13:8 and as previously stated the Grace which they are Justified by was given them in Christ Jesus before the world began !

This Justifying Grace was given to us [If we are Elect] prior to when the world began, Thats Eternal Justification !

 

[Dr. Walter]

Being Justified freely by His Grace !



Romans 3:24

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

This Grace whereby those whom Christ died for, and by which they are Justified before God, was given them in Christ Jesus before the world began 2 Tim 1:9

9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Everyone Christ died for, God out of Grace towards them through Jesus Christ, declares them Justified freely without any cause.

The word freely here in the text is the greek word dōrean and means:

undeservedly, without cause. The word is translated without a cause here Jn 15:25

25But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.

There is not a cause within them why God Freely Justified them by His Grace, the Merit is in Christ Jesus, His Redemptive work. Its nothing they did such as believing, nor repentance or water baptism, absolutely nothing they did, said or even thought, but entirely through what Christ did for them.

Christ was slain for them in God's Purpose before the foundation Rev 13:8 and as previously stated the Grace which they are Justified by was given them in Christ Jesus before the world began !

This Justifying Grace was given to us [If we are Elect] prior to when the world began, Thats Eternal Justification !

Yes! That is right! However, what you can't seem to grasp is that we were given Justification before the world began IN THE VERY SAME SENSE we were given glorification before the world began AND we were called before the world began!!!!

Now just apply glorification and called the same way you apply justification and see what you come up with!!!!!!!

IF you applied glorification and called the very same way you apply justification then here is what you are forced to conclude

1. We were NEVER unjustified from our birth until our death thus NEVER under condemnation because we were justifed in Christ before the world began.

2. We were NEVER unglorified (or sinful) from our birth until our death thus NEVER under sin because we were glorified in Christ before the world began.

3. We were NEVER uncalled (unregenerated) from our birth until our death thus NEVER were unregenerated because we were "called" in Christ before the world began.

However, that would be total nonsense and anti-Biblical. Hence the truth about justification, glorfied and called in Christ before the world began is that these are God's Purposeful INTENTIONS to be carried out in time and space thus:

1. When we were born into this world we were UNREGENERATED (not yet "called") but God's purposeful intentions would bring us to a time and place when He did call us through the gospel.

2. When we were born into this world we were UNGLORIFIED (under sin) but God's purposeful intentions would bring us to a time when sancatification in our own person would begin and would find complete glorification in the resurrection.

3. When we were born into this world we were UNJUSTIFIED (condemned under the law, under sin) but God's purposeful intentions would bring us to a time when we would be justified by faith in the gospel.


ALL THREE are found in God's purpose before the world began. Hence, simply being found in God's Purpose before the world began does not mean they were already applied to the elect or fulfilled.

Obviously, that is true of glorification! We were "glorified" in Christ before the world began in regard to God's PLAN but that PLAN was not applied or fulfilled to the time of the resurrection therefore between birth and death we were UNGLORIFIED or sinful.

Obviously, that is true of "called"! We were "called" in Christ before the world began in regard to God's PLAN but that PLAN was not applied by God or fulfilled unto the time of regeneration by the Spirit and therefore between birth and regeneration we were not yet called/regenerated.

Then Obviously, that is true of "justified"! We were "Justified" in Christ before the world began in regard to God's PLAN but that PLAN was not applied by God or fulfilled by God until the time we believed in the gospel and then we were "justified by faith" and therefore between birth and conversion to the gospel we were under condemnation/unjustified.

What you are trying to do is SEPARATE one aspect of God's Plan and make it applicable and fulfilled in eternity (justified) due to YOUR INTERPRETATION of justification but failing to be consistent with the other aspects of God's plan which are just as eternal and "in Christ" before the world began. You cannot pick one and apply that kind of interpretation without applying the same interpretation to glorified and called.

If we were justified before the world began "in Christ" and that demands us to believe WE WERE NEVER UNDER CONDEMNATION, then if we were glorified in Christ before the world began then consistency demands WE WERE NEVER UNDER SIN or unglorified and if we were called/regenerated in Christ before the world began than consistency sould demand WE WERE NEVER unregenerated.

BE CONSISTENT with your applied interpretation! If YOUR INTERPETATION is true of justified, then it must be true of glorified and called. If it is not true of glorified and called it is not true of justified -just that simple!

Why can't you see that your interpretation of eternal justification must be consistent with all other aspects found in God's purpose before the world began?

Why can't you see that you cannot pick one and apply that kind of interpretation without equally applying the same interpretation to the rest?

Why can't you see that we are EQUALLY justified, glorified and called in Christ before the world began and if you demand that we were NEVER the opposite of one then we were never the opposite of the rest. If we were never under condemnation from birth to death because we were justified in Christ before the world began then we were EQUALLY never sinful or unregenerated from birth to death because we also were glorified and called in Christ before the world began.

What is it you don't get about this???????

Maybe this will help you. Speak to us about being glorified in Christ before the world began and if that was a REALITY equal to justified in regard to us when born into this world???? Explain to us how your interpetation of justified demands that between our birth and death we were NEVER under condemnation how this applies to being "glorified" in Christ before the world began??? Explain to us how that must be EQUALLY applied between our birth and death so that we were NEVER unglorified just as we were NEVER unjustified in regard to our birth until our death????