Limited Atonement: God's Power to Save

[AustinC]

You are the one with the false philosophy. In fact Calvinist and Jehovah's witnesses are brother.s so much alike twisting the scriptures.
MB

Not true.

I observe what God says within the context in which it is said.
You take verses out of context and force them to fit your philosophy. It is you who is doing what intra-biblical cults do with the Bible. That should give you pause to look at how you misuse the Bible, but will you pause?

 

[37818]

Here is my delimma with limited atonement being true at the exclusion of the general redemption which I also believe in. If the general redemption is not true how could it be known that give Scriptures that I understand to support and believe makes necessary that general redemption to be true and without the general redemption actually know that Christ died for me? Isaiah 53:6, Romans 5:8. UnderstandIng merely believing a thing to be true does not make anything to be true if it is not true. As it stands I also do believe in the general redemption. Now not believing in the general redemption does not make it not true. Now I have yet to hear an argument how one knows one is saved without actually knowing Christ died for them. Again, without a general redemption I do not see how.

 

[AustinC]

Here is my delimma with limited atonement being true at the exclusion of the general redemption which I also believe in. If the general redemption is not true how could it be known that give Scriptures that I understand to support and believe makes necessary that general redemption to be true and without the general redemption actually know that Christ died for me? Isaiah 53:6, Romans 5:8. UnderstandIng merely believing a thing to be true does not make anything to be true if it is not true. As it stands I also do believe in the general redemption. Now not believing in the general redemption does not make it not true. Now I have yet to hear an argument how one knows one is saved without actually knowing Christ died for them. Again, without a general redemption I do not see how.

Are you asking how God could make known his particular redemption of you, to you?

 

[Humble Disciple]

I don't believe Calvinism because I want it to be true, but because it seems to be closest to what the Bible teaches. If it were up to me, some form of universalism would be true, but I'm not judge and savior of the universe.

 

[Van]

Again we have provided context to each of the verses you take out of context.

What is true is that God limits the atonement to whom He has chosen.

Van, you limit God's atonement as well. It's just that you make humans more powerful than God in that they can supposedly nullify God's atonement. You hold a man-centered means of salvation and damnation.

Folks this line of malarkey about sometime in the unreferenced past the Calvinist doctrines have been shown to be biblical is often used by multiple Calvinist posters. It is a fiction.

What is true is Christ died for all humanity, providing the means of salvation for not only our sins but those of the whole of humanity. Full Stop

Calvinism's Limited Atonement is false doctrine. Claims I make God something less than all powerful are just more diversion efforts. My view is supported by all scripture, contextually considered, but Calvinism conflicts with verse after verse, contextually considered.

 

[AustinC]

Folks this line of malarkey about sometime in the unreferenced past the Calvinist doctrines have been shown to be biblical is often used by multiple Calvinist posters. It is a fiction.

What is true is Christ died for all humanity, providing the means of salvation for not only our sins but those of the whole of humanity. Full Stop

Limited Atonement is false doctrine. Claims I make God something less than all powerful are just more diversion efforts. My is supported by all scripture, contextually considered, but Calvinism conflicts with verse after verse, contextually considered.

Folks the malarkey provided to you by the person I have quoted has been shown for quite a long time. I know that many of you have stopped responding to the quoted person because he has been proven wrong, yet relentlessly pushes his false teaching. When called out, he plays the victim and blames others. It's an old tactic that no one believes, but it seems to be the crutch used to keep on pushing lies.

 

[Van]

Folks the malarkey provided to you by the person I have quoted has been shown for quite a long time. I know that many of you have stopped responding to the quoted person because he has been proven wrong, yet relentlessly pushes his false teaching. When called out, he plays the victim and blames others. It's an old tactic that no one believes, but it seems to be the crutch used to keep on pushing lies.

Folks, did you see a mention of Limited Atonement that claims Christ did not die as a ransom for all? Me neither
All they got is slander for others.

 

[AustinC]

Folks, did you see a mention of Limited Atonement that claims Christ did not die as a ransom for all? Me neither
All they got is slander for others.

Folks do you believe all humans have eternal life in heaven? If not, you have a limited atonement perspective.
No victimhood for those who say unlimited and then proceed to limit...

 

[Van]

Folks do you believe all humans have eternal life in heaven? If not, you have a limited atonement perspective.
No victimhood for those who say unlimited and then proceed to limit...

Limited reconciliation, not limited atonement. All this has been explained over and over.
They either cannot grasp biblical truth or they post disinformation.

The Calvinist view of Christ not laying down His life as a ransom for all is obviously false doctrine.
Christ became the means of salvation for the whole of humanity, 1 John 2:2.
He bought those heading for swift destruction, as well as those to be saved, 1 Peter 2:1.
Since God desires all people to be saved, 1 Timothy 2:4
Christ laid down His life as a ransom for all. 1 Timothy 2:6
God redemption plan provides the opportunity to be saved to everyone exposed to the gospel of Christ. John 3:16

 

[AustinC]

Limited reconciliation, not limited atonement. All this has been explained over and over.
They either cannot grasp biblical truth or they post disinformation.

The Calvinist view of Christ not laying down His life as a ransom for all is obviously false doctrine.
Christ became the means of salvation for the whole of humanity, 1 John 2:2.
He bought those heading for swift destruction, as well as those to be saved, 1 Peter 2:1.
Since God desires all people to be saved, 1 Timothy 2:4
Christ laid down His life as a ransom for all. 1 Timothy 2:6
God redemption plan provides the opportunity to be saved to everyone exposed to the gospel of Christ. John 3:16

Man-centered speech, putting salvation squarely upon man to merit their way into God's grace.

Each of your verses have been fully addressed and the context surrounding those verses prove you wrong. Yet, you keep pitching the same lie over and over again.

Van, what do you think Jesus sacrificial payment accomplished if it did not pay for and reconcile in whole?

 

[Humble Disciple]

The doctrine of unlimited atonement seems to put the Persons of the Trinity at odds with one another:

The Lord Jesus prayed in John 17 and repeatedly referred to those people that the Father had given Him. From eternity past, the glorious Father gave a particular, a special, a peculiar people to the Son. These are particular souls. These are divinely chosen ones. The Son came in human flesh to live for & die for these particular ones that the Father gave Him. All that the Father gave to the Son were fully pardoned at Calvary. The Spirit of God grants life to all who are elect. He gives life to them. The Father and the Son give life to a particular group of individuals. And thus, the Son came to redeem them. To pit the Son of God against the Father and the Spirit would make the members of the Triune Godhead to be at odds with each other. And this cannot be. The Godhead always works in glorious concert, beauty, happiness, and harmony together.

Why Definite Atonement (Particular Redemption) Must Be True - The Aquila Report

John 3:16 and 1 John 2:2 are interpreted to mean that God intends to save all people without exception, but they must be read in context of other passages of John’s writings:

John 11
51 Now this he did not say on his own authority; but being high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the nation,
52 and not for that nation only, but also that He would gather together in one the children of God who were scattered abroad.

John 17:9
I am praying for them. I am not praying for the world but for those whom you have given me, for they are yours.

John 11:52 says that Jesus died, not for all people without exception, but for “the children of God who were scattered abroad,” just as Jesus says in His priestly prayer of John 17:9 that He wasn’t praying for the whole world, but to those given to Him by the Father for salvation.

If John meant the whole world without exception, then the entire world must have been following Jesus in John 12:19, rather than just a large crowd.

John 12:19
The Pharisees therefore said among themselves, Perceive ye how ye prevail nothing? behold, the world is gone after him.

John’s references to Jesus dying for the world’s sins includes people from all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, rather than every individual without exception.

Revelation 7:9
After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands

 

[Humble Disciple]

The Epistle to the Hebrews presents Jesus as high priest of the New Covenant. Just as the high priest in ancient Israel presented the sacrifice for Israel alone, and not everyone in the world, Jesus offers up Himself on behalf of the elect:

Hebrews 2:17
For this reason he had to be made like them, fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people.

Hebrews 13:12
Therefore Jesus also, that He might sanctify the people with His own blood, suffered outside the gate.

 

[MB]

Who said anything about God Himself being limited?
God is omnipotent.
He does all He pleases to do....psalm115.
It pleased Him to die A Covenant Death for those Jews and Gentiles He is going to save.
He is not willing that any of them perish.Everyone of them will be savingly drawn to Jesus.

I know you do not see the actual finished redemption yet, but today is still young.Where there is life there is hope.

What no scriptures to back up limited atonement. How about the rich young ruler? He was drawn other wise he could not have come to Christ according to Calvinism. Yet he wasn't saved. Kind of blows Calvinism out of the water with there limited atonement and man's inability. Wake up and smell the coffee Calvinism is false.
MB

 

[MB]

Not true.

I observe what God says within the context in which it is said.
You take verses out of context and force them to fit your philosophy. It is you who is doing what intra-biblical cults do with the Bible. That should give you pause to look at how you misuse the Bible, but will you pause?

Totally false. There is no doubt that you work to undermine the truth of scripture. Your philosophy is false and so is all of your so called doctrines.
MB

 

[AustinC]

What no scriptures to back up limited atonement. How about the rich young ruler? He was drawn other wise he could not have come to Christ according to Calvinism. Yet he wasn't saved. Kind of blows Calvinism out of the water with there limited atonement and man's inability. Wake up and smell the coffee Calvinism is false.
MB

Many people try to get to God on their terms. All of them fail and fall short. That's the thing with salvation by merited works, MB, it never works...

 

[AustinC]

Totally false. There is no doubt that you work to undermine the truth of scripture. Your philosophy is false and so is all of your so called doctrines.
MB

Totally false, your desperate attempt to win your salvation by your own works does not make observation of God's word an undermining of the truth of scripture. Instead, observation of scripture shows you cannot work your way into God's grace.

You have no biblical support for your opinion, MB. This is why you live in the shadows with your posts.

 

[Van]

Man-centered speech, putting salvation squarely upon man to merit their way into God's grace.

Each of your verses have been fully addressed and the context surrounding those verses prove you wrong. Yet, you keep pitching the same lie over and over again.

Van, what do you think Jesus sacrificial payment accomplished if it did not pay for and reconcile in whole?

Note that Calvinism is man-centered, so they charge others with their malfeasance.
They deny Romans 4 where scripture teaches God credits our faith as righteousness.
They deny Romans 9:16 where scripture teaches salvation does not depend on the person who will, but on God alone.
And then they ask a question which has been answered many times. They pretend they are unable to understand scripture to defend unbiblical doctrine. LOL

 

[Iconoclast]

What no scriptures to back up limited atonement. How about the rich young ruler? He was drawn other wise he could not have come to Christ according to Calvinism. Yet he wasn't saved. Kind of blows Calvinism out of the water with there limited atonement and man's inability. Wake up and smell the coffee Calvinism is false.
MB

All the scriptures speak of Particular Redemption. You are unable to welcome them.They have been offered but you lack spiritual eyesight so you offer foolish posting.
You are commenting without understanding.
You offer nothing to respond to.
I will give you one example.
In John 10 Jesus says He lays down His life...FOR THE SHEEP.
If He died for everyone why does He clarify and single out The sheep?

 

[MB]

Many people try to get to God on their terms. All of them fail and fall short. That's the thing with salvation by merited works, MB, it never works...

You keep falsely trying to tell I'm trying to get to God on my own terms. I've never indicated that at all. I came to Christ because I was drawn. I heard the gospel and was convicted of my sins. Not by my own choice. No one comes to God because they want to hurt. All because I heard of His death and resurrection.. He died for me and you try to tell me it's on my own and that I saved myself..Why? because I believed His gospel. You make up this bull because it's as false as you can be. You're so full false hoods and hate You think you're so great that God just saved you with out conviction or faith. God does not save those who do not believe in Him. Not only that you cannot prove He does save with out faith and conviction. You claim He did but that is not true.
MB

 

[MB]

All the scriptures speak of Particular Redemption. You are unable to welcome them.They have been offered but you lack spiritual eyesight so you offer foolish posting.
You are commenting without understanding.
You offer nothing to respond to.
I will give you one example.
In John 10 Jesus says He lays down His life...FOR THE SHEEP.
If He died for everyone why does He clarify and single out The sheep?

Don't you wish this were true and that you could prove it . The best word to describe Calvinism is HATE. If what you say above is true why don't you show it. Your just as full of hatered as your fellow Calvinist Austin. You both deny what scripture actually says.
MB