Lordship Salvation volume 2

[preacher4truth]

GreekTim..

Brother, I just have to say this to you. I really dont have any choice



GO BUCKEYES!! :thumbs::smilewinkgrin:

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Amy.G]

If you want to call repentance a work that is fine. The bible doesn't however, but Faith is a work.

Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;
sola fide

That verse does not say faith is a work. It means work done "in faith".

We are saved by grace through faith. Not of works lest anyone should boast.

 

[Winman]

Yes He does save us if we come to repentance towrds God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

If you are simply going to repeat the same thing over and over, I will ask you the same question over and over.

How obedient do yo have to be?

Don't deflect, please answer that question as directly and specifically as possible.

You make a constant fuss over this, the very least you can do is explain how obedient we must be.

And are you absolutely certain you will endure till the end?

 

[freeatlast]

That verse does not say faith is a work. It means work done "in faith".

We are saved by grace through faith. Not of works lest anyone should boast.

No it says YOUR work of faith. Not what you are saying. Faith is a work but we are not saved by works. We are saved by grace.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Yes indeedy! another BUCKEYE fan....

Preacher4Truth



Buckeye Nation !!!!

 

[webdog]

Yes indeedy! another BUCKEYE fan....

Preacher4Truth



Buckeye Nation !!!!

Add me in too. I don't know what is worse, reading some of these threads (faith is a work when Scripture states plainly faith is NEVER a work) or watching Bauserman drop back to pass

 

[preacher4truth]

Yes indeedy! another BUCKEYE fan....

Preacher4Truth



Buckeye Nation !!!!

Well, pretty much right now, well, we're NOT good!!!!! But we WILL be BACK!!!!!

Born in Columbus, Buckeye for life!

And glad Terrelle is a Raider!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[quantumfaith]

Yes indeedy! another BUCKEYE fan....

Preacher4Truth



Buckeye Nation !!!!

A proud member of the Gator Nation. Although I did hang out with a bunch Ohio State Math Professors a few years ago in Washington DC at a Math Conference. They were quite enjoyable to get to know.

 

[Amy.G]

No it says YOUR work of faith. Not what you are saying. Faith is a work but we are not saved by works. We are saved by grace.

I know what it says, but you are misinterpreting it. YOUR work for God is done because of YOUR faith. That is what it means.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Add me in too. I don't know what is worse, reading some of these threads (faith is a work when Scripture states plainly faith is NEVER a work) or watching Bauserman drop back to pass

I know.

These are not the best of times for the Buckeyes.

If Tressle had not been a bit lax in some areas we wouldnt be in this situation.

 

[DHK]

The last question first. Yes, for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. , not me keeping me.
I never said that Jesus place a condition to be healed. I said they all accepted Him as Lord.

Those who were healed called Him Lord, not Savior.

And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, turned back, and with a loud voice glorified God, And fell down on his face at his feet, giving him thanks: and he was a Samaritan. (Luke 17:15-16)

Jesus healed 10 lepers. Only one came back to return thanks and he was a Samaritan. Even then he never called Christ Lord.
Jesus healed all that came to him. He healed the multitudes. They were not interested in calling him Lord. They were interested in getting healed. It is most probable that He healed more unsaved than saved. Certainly, in just the little evidence I gave you that all did not call him Lord.

 

[DHK]

No it says YOUR work of faith. Not what you are saying. Faith is a work but we are not saved by works. We are saved by grace.

Faith is not a work. It never was. If you choose to believe that you are saved by works, then you need to examine carefully your soteriology.

 

[mandym]

you are correct in that, just was stating that intial faith in jesus is a one time act, a definite point in time, and as a direct result of new life in Christ..

"easy grace" is the Lord saving us, while "lordship" is us growing and maturing up in Him, being confirmed into image of Christ...

NOT either/or, its both!

I have no idea what this means. But Paul made it clear that confessing Jesus as Lord is part of coming to God for salvation.

 

[DHK]

I have no idea what this means. But Paul made it clear that confessing Jesus as Lord is part of coming to God for salvation.

Therefore being justified by faith we have peace with God.
Salvation is a one time act.

If "confessing Jesus as Lord is part of coming to God for salvation, then what are the other parts? If there are other parts, then would that not be a works-based salvation.

For by grace are you saved through faith and that not of yourself. It is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast.

 

[mandym]

Therefore being justified by faith we have peace with God.
Salvation is a one time act.

If "confessing Jesus as Lord is part of coming to God for salvation, then what are the other parts? If there are other parts, then would that not be a works-based salvation.

For by grace are you saved through faith and that not of yourself. It is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast.

Ask Paul. Those were his words

 

[Winman]

The last question first. Yes, for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. , not me keeping me.

You are changing your tune, now you sound like those who believe in "easy believeism" as you call it. You don't mention your obedience here do you?

No, you can't mention your obedience here, because there can be no assurance in obedience. You may be obedient today, but you have no way to know if you will be obedient 5 years from now, or 10 years from now.

This is why those verses that say we are NOW the sons of God refute Lordship Salvation, because no one can know for certain if they will persevere. You CANNOT know you are a son of God NOW because you may fall away.

So, when I asked you if you know you will persevere, you did not answer you will persevere (because you can't say that honestly), but claim that you are preserved or kept.

Now, if you are preserved or kept (which is correct and scriptural) then why do you need to persevere?

So, your own answer betrays you.

But if you want to keep on carrying that weight, that is up to you.

 

[HankD]

If you want to call repentance a work that is fine. The bible doesn't however, but Faith is a work.

Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;
sola fide

There can be no faith without repentance. No repentance, no faith, no salvation.

Hi FAL,

In this passage "work" has the definite article "the work of your faith".

That is - the work which is a product of your faith as the other qualities of the children of God spoken of in this passage.


Here is Young's Literal Translation of this passage:

1 Thessalonians 1:3 unceasingly remembering of you the work of the faith, and the labour of the love, and the endurance of the hope, of our Lord Jesus Christ, in the presence of our God and Father,​

Second:

Luke 18

47 Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.
48 And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.
49 And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also?
50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.​

Third, technically speaking repentance (meta-noia) means a change of mind.​

Like the word metamorpho means a change of form, metanoia means a change of mind.​

So, repentance, a change of mind, is really insufficient to describe the new birth though it includes it.​

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.​

And this Paul was saying to babes in Christ who were having great difficulty with their walk after coming to Christ.​

They were frequenting Pagan temples, fellowshiping with them in their debaucheries then coming to the gathering of Christians drunk and taking communion, and even going beyond the practices of the Gentiles, of course the Lord dealt with them:​

1 Corinthians 10
20 But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.
21 Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.
22 Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? are we stronger than he?​

1 Corinthians 11
29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.​

The epistles to the Corinthians is a handbook for Christian counselors.​

They did indeed have a change of mind at the rebukes of Paul and yes he calls it repentance but in this case it was used of babes in Christ.​

I think as someone else has said this debate (or whatever it is) is a problem of semantics complicated by a clash of wills (of which I am also involved).​

HankD​

 

[Alive in Christ]

Mandym...

Ask Paul. Those were his words

But you can not interpret them in isolation. They have to be viewed in light of the whole of Pauls teaching.

Paul was the primary vessel that God chose to reveal Gods shift from Law to the fullness of pure, undiluted, liberating GRACE.

The two...law and grace...CAN NOT be mixed. Only confusion will come if we try to mix them.

 

[mandym]

Mandym...




But you can not interpret them in isolation. They have to be viewed in light of the whole of Pauls teaching.

Paul was the primary vessel that God chose to reveal Gods shift from Law to the fullness of pure, undiluted, liberating GRACE.

The two...law and grace...CAN NOT be mixed. Only confusion will come if we try to mix them.

Your error is in your assumption that that is the attempt her. But ultimately your response shows nothing more than your inability to respond to the clear teaching of scripture that you do not like.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Mandym...

But ultimately your response shows nothing more than your inability to respond to the clear teaching of scripture that you do not like.

To the contrary, I not only like all of the scriptures, I LOVE all of the scriptures.

But it greives me to see Gods grace...the New Covenant...being diluted with legalism, and man centered "its up to me" teachings.

And now...I must hit the sack. :sleeping_2: