Many Means All??

[atpollard]

Clearly, those who have justification are saved people. Are only many offences of saved people forgiven, but not all their offences?

Hmmm ...

... made a good point, and it's hard to see that reply as not basically saying: "I have no reply to that, but I know a way I can wiggle out of it while looking spiritual".

 

[Reformed1689]

Could you please just answer the question? It's one line of thinking, and a fair question.
Is the many there all? Or not?

Rom 5:16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

The verse is talking about the contrast of the singular actions. One transgression condemned one action/sacrifice redeemed. That's the point of this verse.

 

[George Antonios]

And see now you have a problem. For now because the many offenses only apply to the sins of the saved, you have to reconcile that with the fact of the argument that many somehow means every individual earlier. You can't have it both ways.

That is a categorical confusion. It could be all the offences of the saved in one place, and all of mankind in another place.
The Calvinists brethren are the ones so apt at making world mean all of the elect only in John 3:16, remember?

 

[George Antonios]

The verse is talking about the contrast of the singular actions. One transgression condemned one action/sacrifice redeemed. That's the point of this verse.

The many in Romans 5:16. All, or some, of the offences?

 

[Reformed1689]

That is a categorical confusion. It could be all the offences of the saved in one place, and all of mankind in another place.
The Calvinists brethren are the ones so apt at making world mean all of the elect only in John 3:16, remember?

And again you lie about the position. We did not, or at least I did not, in that thread say the word world meant the elect.

 

[Reformed1689]

The many in Romans 5:16. All, or some, of the offences?

That's not what it is dealing with.

 

[George Antonios]

And again you lie about the position. We did not, or at least I did not, in that thread say the word world meant the elect.

Maybe you did not. The "we" did. For an entire thread.
Very quick on the accusational trigger.

 

[George Antonios]

That's not what it is dealing with.

The many of Romans 5:16. All offences, or some offences?

 

[SavedByGrace]

I'm sure that is what you read into it, yes.

did you check the Greek grammar images I posted? If you seriously want to learn what the Bible actually teaches, these works will help you. the Bible and not theology should be our Guide!

 

[SavedByGrace]

Here is a another example of clarity of intent, God is talking about those who are in a covenant with Him, not those who are not.

Written to a church...
Revelation 3:19
As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent.

Clearly God does not chasten those who are not his sons
Deuteronomy 8:5
You should know in your heart that as a man chastens his son, so the Lord your God chastens you.

But when you swap in all for many the meaning of that is violated. Even so, saying it as All I love I rebuke and chasten, is true.
YET you could have said it as, I love ALL
But God did not say that, so your going to have to change the scripture.
WARNINGS about doing that are in that Book.
And actually this verse is also proof God does not love all, just the many as He loves as they are in a relationship with Him.

The problem with those you pick certain verses for their "theories", then purposely ignore those that are against what the believe.

 

[Reformed1689]

Maybe you did not. The "we" did. For an entire thread.
Very quick on the accusational trigger.

I don't think the "we" did. I read the thread over and over when it was going hot.

 

[Reformed1689]

did you check the Greek grammar images I posted? If you seriously want to learn what the Bible actually teaches, these works will help you. the Bible and not theology should be our Guide!

Not everything comes from Greek Grammars and definitions in isolation. That is your amateurish downfall.

 

[SavedByGrace]

The many of Romans 5:16. All offences, or some offences?

the honest Christian, who has no theological point to prove or support, will see this for what it says. that here MANY means EVERY SINGLE ONE. Otherwise we have the absurdity that the whole human race did not fall in Adam, only the "elect" did!

 

[Reformed1689]

The many of Romans 5:16. All offences, or some offences?

Some, not all, but that doesn't mean what you are going to twist it to mean. It qualifies by the very nature of the sacrifice which offenses get covered by forgiveness. No offenses are justified though, let's make that clear.

 

[Reformed1689]

the honest Christian, who has no theological point to prove or support, will see this for what it says. that here MANY means EVERY SINGLE ONE. Otherwise we have the absurdity that the whole human race did not fall in Adam, only the "elect" did!

Can someone please fix the record player?

 

[SavedByGrace]

Not everything comes from Greek Grammars and definitions in isolation. That is your amateurish downfall.

I think that you bluff when you say that you know Hebrew and Greek, at least at the higher, grammatical level. Because your responses are really silly! When people are serious about Bible translations, one of the main things that they have, is a very good grammar of the original language.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Can someone please fix the record player?

Yes, we need another song than the Reformed favorite, "lets twist again", as in the Scriptures!

 

[SavedByGrace]

Some, not all, but that doesn't mean what you are going to twist it to mean. It qualifies by the very nature of the sacrifice which offenses get covered by forgiveness. No offenses are justified though, let's make that clear.

you jest! so you are saying, that "For if through the offence of one the many be dead", means SOME??? So only SOME died in Adam? Your theology is that of a kid!

 

[Reformed1689]

I think that you bluff when you say that you know Hebrew and Greek, at least at the higher, grammatical level. Because your responses are really silly! When people are serious about Bible translations, one of the main things that they have, is a very good grammar of the original language.

I never said otherwise.

 

[Reformed1689]

you jest! so you are saying, that "For if through the offence of one the many be dead", means SOME??? So only SOME died in Adam? Your theology is that of a kid!

Not everyone dies an eternal death so no, it is not saying all. It says many as in a great number. Some have eternal life, many actually. Some of the population of earth die, some live. It's not hard.