Mayor Pete grooms a 9 yr old on stage, for votes

[evenifigoalone]

You simply want homosexuals to be immune to learning self-control

From where do you get this bovine excrement? You are wrong

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[Benjamin]

You simply want homosexuals to be immune to learning self-control

Exactly! Questdriven is so obviously out on a "quest" to "teach" us Christians here, on the BB how homosexuality is justifiable. It has gone from "her struggles" to an all out defense of the practice. In fact, I rather resent that fact that she is using the BB as her platform to search for those with itching ears. She totally dodged my answer to her "mutation" argument relating to the typical homosexual deviant claim that they were born that way and have no choice that has become their go-to argument, as if such a genetic defect can increase at the rate it is claimed to exist and be so "widespread".

Yup...heard it all.
Guess what?

She has obviously been searching out, hanging with, surrounding herself and learning from like-minded people to a great extent and is bringing it here as if we haven't heard these arguments before. You can tell by the arguments that she avoids that she is not looking for the truth but rather practicing her defense. She told me in another one of her many threads on this subject that I don't know her from Adam, ...while being ignorant that some of us are reading her like a book because we've heard it all before.


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[HeirofSalvation]

From where do you get this bovine excrement? You are wrong

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You took my entire post and simply said "bovine excrement"....
And then said:
"You are wrong".

You have no response to what I just said.
I answered all your arguments,
I undercut the argument that people were "born a certain way"....by admitting my own born predispositions...
So, you have nothing left.

Newsflash girl:
Christianity has existed for over 2,000 years, we've probably heard any argument you can make before.
Your entire thrust is that some people are "BORN" predisposed to blah, blah, blah....

Guess what:
Me too.

No one cares whether I felt particularly attracted to female x or female y...all perversions are perversions regardless of what my hormones were doing.
And even though I am a perfectly capable male now married to a wonderful woman, I'm simply not allowed to lust after female x or y...…..
It's called self-control.

It becomes infinitely easier if you follow the Biblical model of finding a loving wife in whom you delight who makes lusting after others an afterthought at most.

I used to struggle with it a LOT...
Now, barely at all.

The Biblical model rings true, whether you like it or not.

 

[evenifigoalone]

Look back through my posts about tell me where I ever said SSA Christians shouldn't have self control. On the contrary, I believe, and have BEEN saying, that SSA Christians are called to celibacy--which requires self control. I also believe that dwelling on lust, straight or gay, is wrong. I also believe that gay sex and gay marriage are sins, and have said nothing to the contrary. So tell me, where am I "trying to justify homosexuality"

You're making assumptions and jumping at shadows. Both of you. Shame on you

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[HeirofSalvation]

Look back through my posts about tell me where I ever said SSA Christians shouldn't have self control. On the contrary, I believe, and have BEEN saying, that SSA Christians are called to celibacy--which requires self control. I also believe that dwelling on lust, straight or gay, is wrong. So tell me, where am I "trying to justify homosexuality"

You're making assumptions and jumping at shadows

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You are continuously an apologist for same-sex attractions.
Same-sex attractions are Biblically perverse by nature.

All true believers are called to seek redemption from perverse attractions.

You are trying to justify them.
Sin is not to be justified, but rather called out and defeated.
No one on B.B. or other decent Christian threads cannot understand that some persons struggle differently.

For instance: you claim to be "asexual" in the sense of not having drives which compel you one way or another....
O.K.
I also know that approximately 1% of people (male or female) have little to no sex-drive regardless of their born gender....It's rare, but it happens. Perhaps you land in that 1% and the world's teachings lend towards confusion because you can't relate to them...A godly counselor or pastor can help you navigate how you should respond to those influences.
You aren't sinful for experiencing them....
One is only sinful for how they entertain and react towards influences.

The Scriptures, however, are clear, and they cover any possible scenario you can throw at us.....
Neither your particular drives nor mine, nor anyone else's have any bearing on what the Scriptures are clear about.
Men should want women.
Women should want men.
They should only engage in satiating those passions in the context of marriage.....
All the rest can be dealt with on a one on one basis.....Scriptures will cover everything, I promise.

 

[evenifigoalone]

You are continuously an apologist for same-sex attractions.
Same-sex attractions are Biblically perverse by nature.

All true believers are called to seek redemption from perverse attractions.

You are trying to justify them.
Sin is not to be justified, but rather called out and defeated.
No one on B.B. or other decent Christian threads cannot understand that some persons struggle differently.

For instance: you claim to be "asexual" in the sense of not having drives which compel you one way or another....
O.K.
I also know that approximately 1% of people (male or female) have little to no sex-drive regardless of their born gender....It's rare, but it happens. Perhaps you land in that 1% and the world's teachings lend towards confusion because you can't relate to them...A godly counselor or pastor can help you navigate how you should respond to those influences.
You aren't sinful for experiencing them....
One is only sinful for how they entertain and react towards influences.

The Scriptures, however, are clear, and they cover any possible scenario you can throw at us.....
Neither your particular drives nor mine, nor anyone else's have any bearing on what the Scriptures are clear about.
Men should want women.
Women should want men.
They should only engage in satiating those passions in the context of marriage.....
All the rest can be dealt with on a one on one basis.....Scriptures will cover everything, I promise.

Merely being attracted to someone is not a sin--however, acting on it, including to indulge in lust even just in your head, is. Same sex attraction happens, and even SSA people who believe they need to become heterosexual, usually still deal with homosexual attraction recuringly their entire lives. You're putting a burden on these people that scripture does not.

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[evenifigoalone]

There are two solutions side B typically has for SSA people--lifelong celibacy and taking SSA as our thorn in the flesh, or marrying someone of the opposite sex even though they may not be attracted to the opposite sex (called a mixed orientation marriage)

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[evenifigoalone]

You took my entire post and simply said "bovine excrement"....

Not your entire post, just the single sentence I quoted. I feel like you are making unfair assumptions about me and what I'm saying, as well as misrepresenting my argument. That was my point.

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[Benjamin]

You're putting a burden on these people that scripture does not.

Do tell how HoS placed such a burden, because all I'm seeing here is an apologist changing her argument to a fallacious one of an "Argument from Pity"?

 

[evenifigoalone]

Do tell how HoS placed such a burden, because all I'm seeing here is an apologist changing her argument to a fallacious one of an "Argument from Pity"?

SSA is a result of the fall, same as any deformity or mutation. Everyone has a different thorn in the flesh. For some it might be poor mental health. For others it might be a disease or ongoing hardship. For some it's SSA. God's grace is sufficient in all cases

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[evenifigoalone]

Ok, let's be clear here.
What exactly about what I'm saying do you take such major issue with? Either or both of you can answer.
As I stated, I believe that acting on homosexual attraction or that entertaining homosexual lust are both sins.
I believe that SSA Christians are called to either lifelong celibacy or to find an opposite sex partner despite their lack of attraction to the opposite sex.
Surely you don't dispute these two things.

And HoS actually seemed to agree with me that SSA is inborn, or at least if it IS inborn that one should still not act on it or entertain lust.... Which, I agree.
Where we seem to differ, is in believing the attraction itself is a sin. Which is where I believe you are placing an unnecessary burden on our brothers and sisters.

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[Benjamin]

SSA is a result of the fall, same as any deformity or mutation. Everyone has a different thorn in the flesh. For some it might be poor mental health. For others it might be a disease or ongoing hardship. For some it's SSA. God's grace is sufficient in all cases

SIN is a result of the fall, period. To claim one’s preference of sin (SSA), is somehow justifiable because they were born that way and had no choice is the result of an apologist making EXCUSES for them! Again, the claim that a genetic defect (mutation), which would have had to have expanded to at least 10% of all people, to justify or normalize that particular sin defies rational logical thinking. It merely displays your preference to be an apologist and defend the “uncontrollable feelings”.

HoS nailed it, you should open your ears to this instead of where you been hanging out:

You are continuously an apologist for same-sex attractions.
Same-sex attractions are Biblically perverse by nature.

All true believers are called to seek redemption from perverse attractions.

You are trying to justify them.
Sin is not to be justified, but rather called out and defeated.

For some it's SSA.

To refute your argument, I specifically underlined the word "some" earlier in this thread to point out that nearly ALL who are into this sin today make the claim of the go-to argument that they were born that way and have no choice - then typically turn to an argument of pity.

No one is questioning God's grace. I've also addressed your pity argument about "poor SSA sinners raised in religious homes" and clearly pointed out that where I saw the problem was not which sin they committed but that they did not admit it was THEIR sin, or ask for forgiveness but rather than believe the Word with itching ears they turn to fables to use for excuses.

 

[evenifigoalone]

SIN is a result of the fall, period. To claim one’s preference of sin (SSA), is somehow justifiable because they were born that way and had no choice is the result of an apologist making EXCUSES for them! Again, the claim that a genetic defect (mutation), which would have had to have expanded to at least 10% of all people, to justify or normalize that particular sin defies rational logical thinking. It merely displays your preference to be an apologist and defend the “uncontrollable feelings”.

HoS nailed it, you should open your ears to this instead of where you been hanging out:



To refute your argument, I specifically underlined the word "some" earlier in this thread to point out that nearly ALL who are into this sin today make the claim of the go-to argument that they were born that way and have no choice - then typically turn to an argument of pity.

No one is questioning God's grace. I've also addressed your pity argument about "poor SSA sinners raised in religious homes" and clearly pointed out that where I saw the problem was not which sin they committed but that they did not admit it was THEIR sin, or ask for forgiveness but rather than believe the Word with itching ears they turn to fables to use for excuses.

Where the hell am I "justifying homosexuality" is what I want to know

Right now you are arguing solely from your own opinion. If you want to get into actual scripture, we can do that. I've done it before

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[Benjamin]

Where the hell am I "justifying homosexuality" is what I want to know

Duh:

You are continuously an apologist for same-sex attractions.
Same-sex attractions are Biblically perverse by nature.

All true believers are called to seek redemption from perverse attractions.

You are trying to justify them.
Sin is not to be justified, but rather called out and defeated.

And HoS actually seemed to agree with me that SSA is inborn, or at least if it IS inborn that one should still not act on it or entertain lust.... Which, I agree.

I seriously doubt HoS was going beyond sin in general and buying into the excuses that SSA is always inborn.

Jas 1:13-15 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: (14) But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. (15) Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

 

[evenifigoalone]

Jas 1:13-15 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: (14) But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. (15) Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Now we're cooking with gas.

If you'll notice, I never said SSA came from God, rather I said that it comes from living in a fallen world.

I have also, many a time, explained that attraction isn't necessarily lust. Though it can lead to it.
If you'll actually listen to the testimonies of SSA Christians, you'll notice most of them are not "cured" of their attraction, even if they stop acting on it or stop giving into lust. The idea that SSA is something that completely goes away with prayer and faith and repentance, is simply wrong. The testimonies of our brothers and sisters who wish to remain faithful to God but still experience SSA attest to this.

Oh, by the way.... Red hair is also the result of a mutation. It affects a small ish portion of the population, as well.

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[evenifigoalone]

If you wish to come at me with scripture I will answer as best I can. But I think we're not going to convince each other.

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[evenifigoalone]

Most married people I know say that they still experience attraction to others besides their spouse. Experience with that might vary from person to person.

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[RighteousnessTemperance&]

Guess we're at an impasse.

My intent here is to address the OP, the evil being aimed at children, even very young ones, that encourages them down a dark path. For you to say we are at an impasse sounds like you side with those intent on that agenda, which I would hope you do not.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

…You will find that many Christians who live with SSA grew up in church and began to discover that their sexuality didn't line up with their theology around puberty

This remark about theology needs addressing, as it is key to the issue. Their understanding may be way off, but their “sexuality” does line up with the Bible’s theology. People have been tempted by and engaged in all manner of perversions, and the Bible does not ignore this at all.

The Bible is clear that these things are sin, that all people are tempted to sin, that all people do sin, that all people suffer consequences and face eternal damnation. The good news is that God sent his Son to die for our sins that in believing in Him we are forgiven to live with him forever.

 

[evenifigoalone]

You keep talking about scripture but never provide any. But whatever you bring up, I'm sure I've heard and addressed it before. I maintain that attraction itself is not a sin, but rather something that can lead to sin....just as it can with heterosexuals.