Let me state again for everybody...(including you,Luke) check out the list that was posted. Over and over again the scriptures teach and condemn the use of bevearge alcohol. Anybody that says otherwise is being willfully blind or ignorant. IF anyone can CLEARLY demonstrate FROM THE SCRIPTURES (I prefer you show me using a KJV please) that God condones and encourages the use of beverage ALCOHOL for anything other than medicinal (pain-killing,etc.)purposes then please, feel free to state your case. Would your "evidence" hold up in a court of law?....I don't think so.
Wow...
I've copied the list and am pasting it below. I've taken the liberty to delete all the text which speak of becoming drunk or being addicted to alcohol, as we have all agreed that is unacceptable and thus those passages do not apply to our point of contention:
3) Leviticus 10:9-11 - God commanded priests not to drink so that they could tell the difference between the holy and the unholy.
4) Numbers 6:3 - The Nazarites were told to eat or drink nothing from the grape vine.
6) Deuteronomy 29:5-6 - God gave no grape juice to Israel nor did they have intoxicating drink in the wilderness.
7) Deuteronomy 32:33 - Intoxicating wine is like the poison of serpents, the cruel venom of asps.
8) Judges 13:4, 7, 14 - Samson was to be a Nazarite for life. His mother was told not to drink wine or strong drink.
9) 1 Samuel 1:14-15 - Accused, Hannah said she drank no wine.
14) 1 Kings 20:12-21 - Ben-Hadad and 32 other kings were drinking when they were attacked and defeated by the Israelites.
16) Psalm 75:8 - The Lord’s anger is pictured as mixed wine poured out and drunk by the wicked.
17) Proverbs 4:17 - Alcoholic drink is called the wine of violence.
18) Proverbs 20:1 - Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging.
19) Proverbs 23:19-20 - A wise person will not be among the drinkers of alcoholic beverages.
22) Proverbs 23:31 - God instructs not to look at intoxicating drinks.
23) Proverbs 23:32 - Alcoholic drinks bite like a serpent, sting like an adder.
24) Proverbs 23:33 - Alcohol causes the drinker to have strange and adulterous thoughts, produces willfulness, and prevents reformation.
25) Proverbs 23:34 - Alcohol makes the drinker unstable
26) Proverbs 23:35 - Alcohol makes the drinker insensitive to pain so he does not perceive it as a warning. Alcohol is habit forming.
27) Proverb 31:4-5 - Kings, Princes, and others who rule and judge must not drink alcohol. Alcohol perverts good judgment.
28) Proverbs 31:6-7 - Strong drink could be given to those about to perish or those in pain. Better anesthetics are available today.
29) Ecclesiastes 2:3 - The king tried everything, including intoxicating drink, to see if it satisfied. It did not. (Ecclesiastes 12:8)
30) Ecclesiastes 10:17 - A land is blessed when its leaders do not drink.
32) Isaiah 5:22 - Woe to "champion" drinkers and "experts" at mixing drinks.
34) Isaiah 22:12-13 - The Israelites choose to drink; their future looks hopeless to them.
35) Isaiah 24:9 - Drinkers cannot escape the consequences when God judges.
41) Jeremiah 35:2-14 - The Rechabites drank no grape juice or intoxicating wine and were blessed.
42) Ezekiel 44:21 - Again God instructed the priests not to drink wine.
43) Daniel 1:5-17 - Daniel refused the king’s intoxicating wine and was blessed for it along with his abstaining friends.
44) Daniel 5:1 - Belshazzar, ruler of Babylon; led his people in drinking.
45) Daniel 5:2-3 - The king, along with his nobles, wives, and concubines, drank from the goblets which had been taken from God’s temple.
46) Daniel 5:4 - Drinking wine was combined with praising false gods.
47) Daniel 5:23 - God sent word to Belshazzar that punishment would be swift for the evil he had committed.
48) Hosea 4:11 - Intoxicating wine takes away intelligence.
49) Hosea 7:5 - God reproves princes for drinking.
50) Joel 1:5 - Drunkards awake to see God’s judgment.
51) Joel 3:3 - The enemy is judged for selling girls for wine.
52) Amos 2:8 - Unrighteous acts of Israel included the drinking of wine which had been taken for the payment of fines.
53) Amos 2:12 - Israel is condemned for forcing Nazarites to drink wine.
54) Micah 2:11 - Israelites are eager to follow false teachers who prophesy plenty of intoxicating drinks.
56) Habakkuk 2:5 - A man is betrayed by wine.
57) Habakkuk 2:15 - Woe to him that gives his neighbor drink.
58) Habakkuk 2:16 - Drinking leads to shame.
59) Matthew 24:48-51 - A drinking servant is unprepared for his Lord’s return.
60) Luke 1:15 - John the Baptist drank neither grape juice nor wine.
64) Romans 14:21 - Do not do anything that will hurt your testimony as a believer.
65) 1 Corinthians 5:11 - If a Christian brother is a drinker, do not associate with him.
70) 1 Timothy 3:2-3 - Bishops (elders) are to be temperate, sober, and not near any wine.
71) 1 Timothy 3:8 - Deacons are to be worthy of respect and not drinkers.
73) Titus 1:7-8 - An overseer is to be disciplined.
Now, that cuts your list down to 47, but while I was reading through these I noticed that these are NOT quotes from scripture. They are statements of interpretation which claim what YOU all think these texts mean. Examples:
#70 references 1 Tim. 3:3, which merely states, "not given to drunkenness..." And thus, this too should be dismissed as unrelated to our point of contention. There are MANY of these, but I want to focus on just one which will soundly put this argument to rest:
60) Luke 1:15 - John the Baptist drank neither grape juice nor wine.
Let's keep on reading, shall we?
Luke 7:33: For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine, and you say, 'He has a demon.' The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and you say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and "sinners." ' 35 But wisdom is proved right by all her children."
Clearly, Jesus not only turned water to wine, but he partook of wine thus leading him of being accused of being a drunkard, by people like you, who can't seem to tell the difference between partaking responsibility and being a drunkard.
You can choose to be like John the Baptist, and I'm fine with that. But why not follow all the Nazarite vows and let your hair grow long? And while you are at it you can promote the requirement of circumcision making Christ of no value, but be careful where that leads lest you cut the whole thing off (ref to Paul's teaching in Galatians)
