Negativism at Home Could Produce Defeat Of U.S. Policy in Iraq

[KenH]

Excellent, LE. A link from an organization that I have high regard for. Thanks.

 

[LadyEagle]

 

[poncho]

You might also want to check these out KJ.

http://www.cfr.org/

http://www.aei.org/

http://www.mises.org/fullstory.aspx?Id=1674

 

[LadyEagle]

Not to mention:

http://www.trueconspiracies.com/

 

[poncho]

Originally posted by LadyEagle:
Not to mention:

http://www.trueconspiracies.com/

Not exactly mainstream conservative thought represented here LE. Oh well, raise ya.

http://www.the-prince-by-machiavelli.com/

http://www.thefourreasons.org/leostrauss.htm

No research into the new conservatives would be complete without a profile on Strauss and Machiavelli. And there is lots of links to other conservative sites at the four reasons.

 

[KenH]

www.cfr.org

The Council on Foreign Relations. One of my favorite organizations.

I just received the latest issue of Foreign Affairs in the mail today.

 

[OCC]

Wow...thanks for all the links you guys.

 

[poncho]

A nuther one.

http://acuf.org/index.asp

 

[LadyEagle]

poncho,

 

[Daisy]

One of my favorites is Washington Report on MidEast Affairs
http://www.washington-report.org/
What I like particularly about it is that it has good archives dating back to 1982, so you can see what the actual issues and policies were at the time, rather than how it is spun nowadays.

 

[OCC]

I have much to read.

 

[poncho]

Before you start your research KJ you might want to give this a look see first.

Propaganda Techniques

Just something to consider before you jump on the bandwagon.

"You're either with us, or against us" appeals to an audience to join a ground swell of public opinion and activity because everybody else is joining. The "bandwagon" technique appeals to feelings of loyalty and nationalism, as well as the desire to be on the winning side. The technique tends to obscure the ethics of the activity at the expense of victory: better to belong to the winning side than be too concerned with the rightness of the means to achieve it.

The "4 out of 5 doctors recommend..." slogan uses both the bandwagon technique and the argument to authority to promote an action. (The two techniques are commonly found linked.) In psychographics terminology, the bandwagon technique appeals most strongly to the group called belongers, those who make decisions because that's what everyone else is doing.

In the post-9/11 world, public figures in the U.S. find it difficult to express even mild criticism of the Bush administration's foreign policies -- so powerful is the bandwagon mentality that seeks to assert that everyone must unite in the fight against terrorism, the axis of evil, the makers of weapons of mass destruction, and those against freedom.

Obscured in this powerful propaganda technique are the facts that, for example, the U.S. has more weapons of mass destruction than any other nation, and is the world's largest arms dealer.

As the "world's most powerful nation," the U.S. has tremendous bandwagon appeal. Factors relevant to the bandwagon technique may be the fear of losing or the threat of reprisals.

 

[OCC]

Thanks poncho

Oh don't worry, there will be no bandwagon jumping. I just want to be more informed. Whether or not I change my beliefs, it is still a good endeavour.

Anyone have any liberal sources as well?

 

[Travelsong]

The Ever Changing Definition of “Mission” In Iraq
A headline in the Washington Post today declares “Bush Defends Strategy In Iraq, Pledges to ‘Complete the Mission’.” The trouble is that Bush has changed the definition of “mission” so many times, it’s hard to have any confidence in his most recent declarations.

THE PRE-WAR MISSION WAS TO RID IRAQ OF WMD…

Bush: “Our mission is clear in Iraq. Should we have to go in, our mission is very clear: disarmament.” [3/6/03]

AFTER THE WAR BEGAN, THE MISSION EXPANDED…

Bush: “Our cause is just, the security of the nations we serve and the peace of the world. And our mission is clear, to disarm Iraq of weapons of mass destruction, to end Saddam Hussein’s support for terrorism, and to free the Iraqi people.” [3/22/03]

Bush: “Our forces have been given a clear mission: to end a regime that threatened its neighbors and the world with weapons of mass destruction and to free a people that had suffered far too long.” [4/14/03]

THEN THE MISSION WAS COMPLETE…

Bush: “On Thursday, I visited the USS Abraham Lincoln, now headed home after the longest carrier deployment in recent history. I delivered good news to the men and women who fought in the cause of freedom: Their mission is complete, and major combat operations in Iraq have ended..” [5/3/03]

BUT THEN IT CONTINUED AGAIN…

Bush: “The United States and our allies will complete our mission in Iraq.” [7/30/03]

THEN THE MISSION WAS TO DEVELOP A FREE IRAQ…

Bush: “That has been our mission all along, to develop the conditions such that a free Iraq will emerge, run by the Iraqi citizens.” [11/4/03]

Bush: “We will see that Iraq is free and self-governing and democratic. We will accomplish our mission.”
[5/4/04]

AND TO TRAIN THE IRAQI TROOPS…

Bush: “And our mission is clear there, as well, and that is to train the Iraqis so they can do the fighting; make sure they can stand up to defend their freedoms, which they want to do.” [6/2/05]

NOW, COMPLETION OF THE MISSION IS FAR FROM CLEAR…

Bush: “We’re making progress toward the goal, which is, on the one hand, a political process moving forward in Iraq, and on the other hand, the Iraqis capable of defending themselves… And we will — we will complete this mission for the sake of world peace.”

http://thinkprogress.org/2005/06/21/the-changing-definition-of-mission-in-iraq/

 

[KenH]

And we will complete our mission, all of the above, in spite of the protests of the Leftists and the extremists on the right.

 

[Rocko9]

This is pure propaganda <snipped> to hide behind professional soldiers and use the so called negativism effect as leverage to continue an unrighteous war. It is sick!Sick!Sick! Their are issues that need to brought to the forefront.

Supporting the cause of a cowardly President. How low can anyone go.More manipulation from the Commander and Jerk.

[ June 30, 2005, 12:25 AM: Message edited by: C4K ]

 

[KenH]

I totally support the policy of President Bush and the efforts of our men and women in uniform to defend us from al Qaeda and to defeat al Qaeda in Afghanistan and Iraq and anywhere else they raise their heads.

I encourage all patriotic Americans who care about the safety of their children and grandchildren, as well as their own, to do likewise, and to not be intimidated by those on the Left or the extremist Right.

 

[OCC]

Ken, how do they know WHO Al qaeda is though? Do they come right out and say "we're the guys"? In traditional war you usually know who you are fighting against. I don't think that is the case now.

 

[Plain Old Bill]

Now that I've read the whole thread I will put in my rant.
I am one of those Vietnam vets.It's a real gut twister to win all of the battles and lose a war by negotiation and news media.After we left many innocent people were killed in Vietnam and many more imprisoned and re-educated. Ho Chi Minh knew once our news media started in on us the war was won for him.
Next,Americans have always been able to critisize themselves and get through it alright.We have been in a constant stae of debate since before the Revolutionary War. We have also been able to withstand critisism from foriegners who always seem to know our business better than we do.
We have rebuilt Japan,Korea,and had a major hand in rebuilding Europe as well as helping to defend it in two world wars.For this we recieve constant critism by those who know how to do things better then we.If that were really true they would be over here helping to make us a better country.

As to the war in Iraq, there are a multitude of reasons for us to be there and stay there to get things right.Osama Bin Laden seems to think the place for Al Queda to attack Americans is in Iraq.Al Queda an Jihadist types from all over the middle east seem to think Iraq is the battle ground, so much so they are leaking through the borders of Syria,Saudi Arabia,and Iran,also comming from Sudan,Jordan and other places.So evidently we have taken the war to the enemy and this is the common battleground. I would'nt call that bad strategy. We are building a country and killing a common enemy who has sworn to the last man to kill us and destroy our country.I think the misunderstanding among some people is that they think war with these guys is optional.They attacked us,we just took the war to them.They will never quit or give up until they are all dead or we are,that is the option, it's just a matter of where the battles are fought.I don't think this is going to be easy or short. Osama Bin Laden is counting on what he said a while back,"as soon as the Americans see blood they will lose heart and quit".We better pray that don't happen.
As for foriegners who are planning on moving to this country,please feel free to stay where you are. I don't see America sending out recruiting teams to get foriegners to move here. We will find some way to survive without you.

I wish this war were optional. War sickens me.How many of you have seen men fight and die?

 

[ASLANSPAL]

Vietnam some 30 years later is really debatable
around a round table of historical and military
scholars as winnable. The nation was united against an occupier ..the U.S.A. slapped them
in the face by rearming the Japanese and assigning
them security in Vietnam...The French
hightailed it and left ...we had Vietnamese catholics as allies and that was about it ..which
was sad they suffered great persecution ..great
numbers were able to make it to our shores. You
could say the communists won but actually it was
more a nationalist movement that was tired of
occupiers...Japan,France, and United States.
Today we are in the final throes of reconciliation
and hoping communist ideals will reform with
free market ideals.

Plain Old Bill thank you for your service and
winning battles and taking care of the guy next
to you to get home but the real naked truth that
now can be told is VIETNAM WAS NOT WINNABLE!

Instead of trying to find a scapegoat here at home
to help you hang on to a false hope ..recognize
it was a united nationalist movement tired of
occupation.