New meaning for old verses

[TCGreek]

It's not besides the point. You are comparing apples to oranges.

According to the best scholarship I'm aware of, 1 Peter was written to both Jews and Gentiles.

 

[Jarthur001]

Amen :thumbs:

This "choice" is in name only.

This does not even make sense.

Who does the chosing?

 

[webdog]

And what part of the passage do I deny as you said I did?

The whole of it, as Allan pointed out...

"God determined salvation to those of faith.
I agree that God decided of His own pleasure whom He will save.
But God determined in His own pleasure and purpose that He will save those who believe the Truth He set forth in CHrist through the ministry of the Holy Spirit."

 

[TCGreek]

The same as I previously stated.

All things operate in accordance with Gods pleasure, plan, and purpose (His will) and so they were chosen according to that which He had already determined...

What is most funny to me is that many men clain to know how God knew anything that He knew (or knew before it was set forth). All we can know is that God forknew and beyond that is pure speculation as to what and how God knew what God knew.

Have ever wondered why the foreknowledge of God is never applied to a thing like faith, but always to people?

 

[webdog]

This does not even make sense.

Who does the chosing?

You're right...a choice between one thing, and one thing only doesn't make sense.

 

[webdog]

According to the best scholarship I'm aware of, 1 Peter was written to both Jews and Gentiles.

This still doesn't make a difference in who the "elect" are in that text.

 

[Jarthur001]

The whole of it, as Allan pointed out...

"God determined salvation to those of faith.
I agree that God decided of His own pleasure whom He will save.
But God determined in His own pleasure and purpose that He will save those who believe the Truth He set forth in CHrist through the ministry of the Holy Spirit."

in other words ...its the same old ..God choose based on looking down in time and seeing who would believe.

This is not what that verse says. Chosen to salvation.

God does not say... chosen because you choose me. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


So I ask again...what do you feel I deny...or are you just full of hot air again?

Time to point on the words you say I deny

 

[TCGreek]

This still doesn't make a difference in who the "elect" are in that text.

For argument sake, How did those Jews become the elect of God? What part did they play in securing their election?

 

[webdog]

For argument sake, How did those Jews become the elect of God? What part did they play in securing their election?

Jew and gentile alike who hold to Eph. 2:8-9 secure their salvation in this manner.

 

[Jarthur001]

You're right...a choice between one thing, and one thing only doesn't make sense.

Then you do not understand choice. You chose what you love, therefore there is but one choice.

 

[webdog]

in other words ...its the same old ..God choose based on looking down in time and seeing who would believe.

This is not what that verse says. Chosen to salvation.

God does not say... chosen because you choose me. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


So I ask again...what do you feel I deny...or are you just full of hot air again?

Time to point on the words you say I deny

From the many conversations we have had, you know for a fact that I don't believe that "God chooses based on looking down in time and seeing who would believe." You are either being intentionally dishonest...or have a really bad memory. I don't think there is anything wrong with your memory....

 

[webdog]

Then you do not understand choice. You chose what you love, therefore there is but one choice.

The one telling me a choice can exist between one thing...or can occur when the will is in bondage telling me I don't understand choice :laugh:

 

[Allan]

Oh but you are wrong my friend. In fact you live this way now.

Let me ask you. Lets say that you had not a clue that in your great state in which you live there was a Law that says you cannot murder. Lets go on to say that you murder. When the state police comes to pick you up, will he then let you go after you say...."But Mr. Copper...I didn't know!! Its not fair I tell you. How can I be guilty if I didn't know? I can not obey the Law if I do not know the Law. Now I demand you let me go. Its not fair."

Will he let you go? Are you not guilty?

Is your great state unjust?

James,
This is not what God has done.
God HAS set forth Truth both in nature and our conscience to all man. Romans 1 and 2. Though these people who don't know Christ (your law of murder) they DO know and reject the truths that God has already revealed (though some have not and God sent to them missionaries ).

 

[Jarthur001]

From the many conversations we have had, you know for a fact that I don't believe that "God chooses based on looking down in time and seeing who would believe. You are either being intentionally dishonest...or have a really bad memory. I don't think there is anything wrong with your memory....

Your words not mine......

But God determined in His own pleasure and purpose that He will save those who believe the Truth He set forth in CHrist through the ministry of the Holy Spirit."

don't get mad at me.

Now because I have asked 3 times and you have not posted one word that I deny....

It is my guess you have none. Therefore for you to say I only believe half of a verse is wrong

 

[Amy.G]

From the many conversations we have had, you know for a fact that I don't believe that "God chooses based on looking down in time and seeing who would believe." You are either being intentionally dishonest...or have a really bad memory. I don't think there is anything wrong with your memory....

What do you believe God bases His choice on?

 

[webdog]

Your words not mine......

I have never once said what you have attributed me of saying.

Now because I have asked 3 times and you have not posted one word that I deny....

It is my guess you have none. Therefore for you to say I only believe half of a verse is wrong

What are you talking about? Your posts are a mish-mosh of confusion. Stick to the more trivial ones you are famous for.

 

[Allan]

Then you do not understand choice. You chose what you love, therefore there is but one choice.

James, Love is choice.

We can have no loving desire until we have first chosen to love, and that is point even regarding love in scripture. 1 Cor 13 - Choice must first come before desire and afterward choice follows the desire due to the first cause.

However, though love is connected at times with emotion, emotions are not love. Love is our actions in spite of our emotions at times.

 

[webdog]

What do you believe God bases His choice on?

Choice of what, Amy?

His people (Israel)?

Individuals who He would use for His pupose?

The line from which the Messiah would come?

Who is saved?

 

[Jarthur001]

James,
This is not what God has done.
God HAS set forth Truth both in nature and our conscience to all man. Romans 1 and 2. Though these people who don't know Christ (your law of murder) they DO know and reject the truths that God has already revealed (though some have not and God sent to them missionaries ).

Allan,

You clearly said this...

Yes, but classic Calvinism denies ability within mans resposibilty thus no real responsibilty exists.

This is not true and I showed that responsibilty exist even if a person does not know the Law. Now you have quoted Romans 1 and 2..this only shows man is even MORE without excuse. Calvinism teaches responsibilty...and it is real.

So you claims are wrong.

If man can not choose then no condemnation rests upon man who according to scripture has chosen rebellion.

This is not the case in your state with Murder...now is it???

Even you attest that man can not choose God without God frist completely changing the person so they can not deny Him. Man is not choosing my friend He is only following the predeterminded response placed in Him by God.

No one is forced. God opens the eyes of the elect to the truth.

 

[webdog]

James, Love is choice.

We can have no loving desire until we have first chosen to love, and that is point even regarding love in scripture. 1 Cor 13 - Choice must first come before desire and afterward choice follows the desire due to the first cause.

However, though love is connected at times with emotion, emotions are not love. Love is our actions in spite of our emotions at times.

What?!?! Love is a choice? That should make our wives happy even if it doesn't make some on here happy :laugh: