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No Salvation Without the Human Element

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JD731

Well-Known Member
As a practical counterpoint to the title and OP, is anyone seriously claiming that a person feeling crushed under the weight of despair, cannot check into a motel room, read the Gideon's Bible found in every room, and discover Jesus Christ, God the Father and ... "confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead" [Rom 10:9] and be saved?

Is such an event really IMPOSSIBLE for God without a human being to act as a verbal intermediary?
That is what the OP claims ... there is NO SALVATION without the HUMAN element.

I do not believe that is true.

But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. [Ephesians 2:4-10 NASB]

It is ALL ABOUT GOD, not about our helping God.

Sola fide ("by faith alone").
Sola gratia ("by grace alone").
Solo Christo ("through Christ alone").
Soli Deo gloria ("glory to God alone").

Do you think the Gideon bible just assembled itself out of thin air? Do you think God wrote it and published it and sent it down from heaven all bound and pretty. How did that Bible get into that hotel room and why s it there?

Concerning Saul of Tarsus on the Damascus Road. I hope you understand that our Lord Jesus is just as human as you or me. He is the God man. He was born of a woman. Hebrews 2 says he took not on him the nature of angels but he took on himself the seed of Abraham.

However, that is not what I had in mind in my op. Saul had heard plenty of preaching and was well aware of what those of “that way” were preaching. He was there in Acts 7 and heard the sermon by Stephen and held the coats of those who stoned him. The language seems to suggest he instigated the riot. Our Lord Jesus asked him why he kicked against the pricks which suggested he was under some kind of conviction from the events of his last few days. A reasoned conclusion from someone who studies the scriptures and believes what he reads would lead one to understand that had Saul. Not heard preaching there would be no Damascus Road conversion.

I will be proving that in a near future thread where I will discuss how God brings the sinner to his new birth. It is fascinating and glorious and it will help to show just why preaching and a faithful witness is of such great importance in the salvation of a sinner. But first I have another subject that has been co- opted by the Calvinists and needs biblical light shined on it.
 

JD731

Well-Known Member
Well I'm back after my computer crashed... Now to answer the OP and let me address the topic as I didn't need to read all this other mess... There is No Salvation Without The Human Element?... I agree but only one man is the human element... Jesus The Christ, the Son Of God 100%... GOD SAVES HIS OWN, ALONE!... Salvation is not a tandem operation, no matter what anyone says... ALL GLORY GOES TO CHRIST!!!... 100%... Brother Glen:)

You will need to give us your definition of salvation. I can almost guarantee that if you give it it will not be biblical.

There is not a Calvinist alive today who understands salvation. If they did they would not be Calvinists. I know this seems harsh but you need to think. Paul said in the last days men would be deceivers and they would be deceiving others. I am concerned enough to try to help you.
 

atpollard

Well-Known Member
Do you think the Gideon bible just assembled itself out of thin air? Do you think God wrote it and published it and sent it down from heaven all bound and pretty. How did that Bible get into that hotel room and why s it there?
:Sleep


God is not saving anyone without the faithful witness of another person.

Congratulations, you have finally moved the goalposts all the way to my position. God does not need a living person to “witness” to a lost person as the ONE AND ONLY WAY, EXCLUDING ALL OTHERS that God can share His Gospel. Jesus can appear in person, like Paul. A person can read God’s Word and be illuminated by the Holy Spirit. God can even send a Christian to speak words of life that God will use to quicken a dead heart.

“God does as He pleases, and He does it right well”
- Corrie Ten Boom
 

JD731

Well-Known Member
:Sleep




Congratulations, you have finally moved the goalposts all the way to my position. God does not need a living person to “witness” to a lost person as the ONE AND ONLY WAY, EXCLUDING ALL OTHERS that God can share His Gospel. Jesus can appear in person, like Paul. A person can read God’s Word and be illuminated by the Holy Spirit. God can even send a Christian to speak words of life that God will use to quicken a dead heart.

“God does as He pleases, and He does it right well”
- Corrie Ten Boom

Will you please supply the name of the first person who comes to your mind that has read the scriptures and has been saved but has never heard the gospel preached or had a human witness beforehand? Or, how about giving us the names or three Christians that you know who had Jesus show up in person with the gospel message?
I have to admit that I have met people with strange claims but I think you are the first to teach that Jesus is randomly showing up to preach to people.
I’m sorry atpollard but some things are just too funny.
 

Barry Johnson

Well-Known Member
How did Moses learn about God? How did Saul/Paul? How are Muslims? ... OT, NT, 21stC ... God is unchanging and follows after His own council.

"For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them." [Eph 2:10 NASB], so God has work for us to do, like preaching and teaching and all the "one another" tasks, but that is not the same as God does nothing without our effort.
I think your o
Well I'm back after my computer crashed... Now to answer the OP and let me address the topic as I didn't need to read all this other mess... There is No Salvation Without The Human Element?... I agree but only one man is the human element... Jesus The Christ, the Son Of God 100%... GOD SAVES HIS OWN, ALONE!... Salvation is not a tandem operation, no matter what anyone says... ALL GLORY GOES TO CHRIST!!!... 100%... Brother Glen:)
And yet Paul's letters reveal such a simple message as
Can you disprove what you disagree with? Do you believe like the Catholics instead?
I believe the bible does not say what Luther had to say on Election , predestination , the will , his anti Jews stance , on baptism , on the Eucharist . As for Catholicism, there is too much to list here on what is wrong .
 

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
I think your o

And yet Paul's letters reveal such a simple message as

I believe the bible does not say what Luther had to say on Election , predestination , the will , his anti Jews stance , on baptism , on the Eucharist . As for Catholicism, there is too much to list here on what is wrong .
But you agree with the Catholics on free will, election, predestination, etc.? Did you know that Antichrist (the Papacy) still sets in the temple of God through his teachings? And through the Jesuit inspired Dispensationalism?
 

Barry Johnson

Well-Known Member
But you agree with the Catholics on free will, election, predestination, etc.? Did you know that Antichrist (the Papacy) still sets in the temple of God through his teachings? And through the Jesuit inspired Dispensationalism?
No not at all . Catholicism ( and we shouldn't be surprised) is closer to calvernism on ' total depravity ' , Election and predestination, and baptism , and Lordship salvation .
 

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
No not at all . Catholicism ( and we shouldn't be surprised) is closer to calvernism on ' total depravity ' , Election and predestination, and baptism , and Lordship salvation .
You believe like the Catholics. Calvin does not on the essentials.
 

atpollard

Well-Known Member
Will you please supply the name of the first person who comes to your mind that has read the scriptures and has been saved but has never heard the gospel preached or had a human witness beforehand?
Will you please supply the name of the first person who comes to your mind that has never heard the gospel preached or had a human witness? That includes Atheists, Muslims, Hindus, New Age believers, Wiccans, or anyone else.
 

JD731

Well-Known Member
I think I have given enough biblical evidence on this thread to prove my op. It is not my fault if anyone fails to believe the scriptures. I have learned over the years that cults will not deal with the scriptures on any subject where the subject is actually dealt with but will divert the conversation to obscure passages to defend their own systems developed by their leaders.

You will notice that I quoted God saying through his apostles that he has chosen the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe and the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness but to us that are saved it is the power of God. Roms 10; Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the WORD OF GOD. (the bible - the written record of eye witnesses of the resurrection) How can they believe in whom they have not heard? How can they hear without a preacher? How can they preach lest they be sent?

All these were simply ignored because they are easy to understand but impossible to believe if your mentality is to prove your religious system in spite of what the scriptures says. There is no salvation in not believing God or denying what he says or skewing his words for your own purposes. All these things have happened in this thread. There are deceived people here. I hope their eyes can be enlightened. That is the reason I posted this. It is because what Calvinism says about salvation will not save anybody but will put them in greater darkness.My prayer is that God will shine the light into their heart, all least some. This is a biblical truth that can be proven; Every person, born of a woman, must have the human element to be saved.
 
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Barry Johnson

Well-Known Member
Will you please supply the name of the first person who comes to your mind that has never heard the gospel preached or had a human witness? That includes Atheists, Muslims, Hindus, New Age believers, Wiccans, or anyone else.
I believe a person can be saved by reading the Bible . yes
 

Barry Johnson

Well-Known Member
That is a nonsense statement: The implication of it is, Calvinists cannot be saved.
I believe its more like , a Calvernist is saved by the Gospel but before he gets established in the scriptures is taken captive by a false system . ( im speaking from experience) . Now the Calvernist is unable to read the plain reading from the text because of the paradigm. No one is saved by calvernism any more than a person can be saved by Catholicism. If any one is saved in and around cavernism it is inspite of it . The devil cannot separate a believer, but he can sure prevent a believer from being effective .
 

37818

Well-Known Member
I believe its more like , a Calvernist is saved by the Gospel but before he gets established in the scriptures is taken captive by a false system . ( im speaking from experience) . Now the Calvernist is unable to read the plain reading from the text because of the paradigm. No one is saved by calvernism any more than a person can be saved by Catholicism. If any one is saved in and around cavernism it is inspite of it . The devil cannot separate a believer, but he can sure prevent a believer from being effective .
Hmm . . .
T Romans 3:11
U Ephesians 1:4
L Mark 10:45
I John 5:21
P John 10:28

Add to this I am not a Calvinist.
 
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