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No such thing as "free will"

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Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
AustinC said:
Perhaps if you read the entire word of God instead of relying on a sentence that misses the context, you would see your error. But, that seems to be too much of an ask from you.
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Austin that comment from you is just a joke. You have been shown that your views do not hold water. You do not even take the time to try and refute what people post. You just say no, not right, as if your word is the gospel.

You need to read the word of God with out the calvinist glasses then perhaps you would actually understand what it says. The sad part is that I think you really do want to know the truth but you refuse to let the bible inform you of that truth.
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
Silverhair said:
Well I see tat you would rather hold to your false theology then trust what the bible says. I thought you were smart enough to read the text and understand what it says but your reluctance to do that or perhaps your inability to do so is clear by your response.
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I do read the text, all of the text, not just bits and pieces of the text, and I AM smart enough to know world is not the same as individuals.
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
Silverhair said:
If this is what you actually believe, then your response shows a complete lack of understanding of the English language. The only logical answer that I can come up with is that you are just acting dumb. No one that says they are a teacher can misunderstand clear text unless they do it deliberately.

Now I do not think you are dumb so the only answer is that you refuse to take the text as it reads because it does not fit with your theology. If the bible text does not fit your theology then it is time your change your theology to fit with the bible.

Why do you not accept the text of the bible but rather openly disagree with what it says. "So either God can't accomplish His will, or that isn't His will." Do you actually read what you post. You are putting yourself over God.
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So this post is pretty much one big ad hominem with absolutely no substance. And, by the way, the Bible wasn't written in English.
 
A

AustinC

Well-Known Member
Silverhair said:
Austin that comment from you is just a joke. You have been shown that your views do not hold water. You do not even take the time to try and refute what people post. You just say no, not right, as if your word is the gospel.

You need to read the word of God with out the calvinist glasses then perhaps you would actually understand what it says. The sad part is that I think you really do want to know the truth but you refuse to let the bible inform you of that truth.
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Silverhair, I have 6 page document showing you are wrong, while you keep falling on a sentence or two, out of context, as your prooftext to your pretext. I have spent months correcting your error, yet you persist in error. You are living on an island of one while crying out against a figment of your imagination you call "calvinist." It's just sad to watch you live alone and in ignorance when help has been offered.
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
On one side we have exhaustive determinists, claiming our every thought and action was predetermined by God. This view is openly endorsed by Hyper-Calvinist, and perhaps secretly held by some main-stream Calvinists. However, on the other side are the majority of professing Christians, who believe we are "free" to choose whatever we fancy. Buried in this group are some fifth columnists claiming we can only "fancy" the dark side.

Lying between these two canards is biblical truth.

The biblical truth is that fallen humanity has limited autonomous will. We can choose what we fancy, but unless God has revealed His good news, we cannot choose to trust in it. Thus our will is obviously limited to what we have experienced or imagined.

Next we are predisposed in ways that curtail the likelihood of choosing to follow God's will. For example, if given the choice between self preservation and doing the right thing, we would tend to save ourselves. This is not a hard limit but an aggregate limit.

If God hardens our hearts, does that not limit our autonomous will? If we harden our own hearts, through the practice of sin, does that not limit our autonomous will? If we have not been "drawn" (attracted) by the Father, can we fully trust in Christ?

Basically both the "Free will" (unconstrained will) claims and the "Bondage of the Will" (Totally constrained Will) claims are bogus unbiblical doctrine
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Reformed1689 said:
I do read the text, all of the text, not just bits and pieces of the text, and I AM smart enough to know world is not the same as individuals.
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You just do not read it in context. And it would seem that you are not smart enough to understand what the text means.
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
AustinC said:
Silverhair, I have 6 page document showing you are wrong, while you keep falling on a sentence or two, out of context, as your prooftext to your pretext. I have spent months correcting your error, yet you persist in error. You are living on an island of one while crying out against a figment of your imagination you call "calvinist." It's just sad to watch you live alone and in ignorance when help has been offered.
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I read you 6 page document and it fails to support your view. You find support for your calvinism in the text because that is what you are looking for. You have to read calvinism into the text to make it work. I have shown how you TULIP is not biblical but you still support that view and call it the DoG. Your constant misuse of scripture is shocking to say the least.
Actually the more you post the more you show the errors of your theology. You do not respond to the scripture I post except to disagree out of hand. You must think that just says no do not agree, actually proves something.
 
A

AustinC

Well-Known Member
Silverhair said:
I read you 6 page document and it fails to support your view. You find support for your calvinism in the text because that is what you are looking for. You have to read calvinism into the text to make it work. I have shown how you TULIP is not biblical but you still support that view and call it the DoG. Your constant misuse of scripture is shocking to say the least.
Actually the more you post the more you show the errors of your theology. You do not respond to the scripture I post except to disagree out of hand. You must think that just says no do not agree, actually proves something.
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Rephrase: You read the verses and you reject them. That is your problem. You reject verses and passages that openly show you that your philosophy is wrong. You have rejected God's Word for Silverhair's philosophy. This is the simple fact of the matter. You live on a desert island in your belief and God does not support your view.
 
A

AustinC

Well-Known Member
Van said:
On one side we have exhaustive determinists, claiming our every thought and action was predetermined by God. This view is openly endorsed by Hyper-Calvinist, and perhaps secretly held by some main-stream Calvinists. However, on the other side are the majority of professing Christians, who believe we are "free" to choose whatever we fancy. Buried in this group are some fifth columnists claiming we can only "fancy" the dark side.

Lying between these two canards is biblical truth.

The biblical truth is that fallen humanity has limited autonomous will. We can choose what we fancy, but unless God has revealed His good news, we cannot choose to trust in it. Thus our will is obviously limited to what we have experienced or imagined.

Next we are predisposed in ways that curtail the likelihood of choosing to follow God's will. For example, if given the choice between self preservation and doing the right thing, we would tend to save ourselves. This is not a hard limit but an aggregate limit.

If God hardens our hearts, does that not limit our autonomous will? If we harden our own hearts, through the practice of sin, does that not limit our autonomous will? If we have not been "drawn" (attracted) by the Father, can we fully trust in Christ?

Basically both the "Free will" (unconstrained will) claims and the "Bondage of the Will" (Totally constrained Will) claims are bogus unbiblical doctrine
Click to expand...
False
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
AustinC said:
Rephrase: You read the verses and you reject them. That is your problem. You reject verses and passages that openly show you that your philosophy is wrong. You have rejected God's Word for Silverhair's philosophy. This is the simple fact of the matter. You live on a desert island in your belief and God does not support your view.
Click to expand...

Austin you will continue to put forward you philosophy, as that is what calvinism is, and I will continue to follow the bible. We will not agree on many. You have your determinism to hold onto as you can not conceive of a God that would actually love His creation enough to let them choose if they want to be with Him or not. You just do not want to trust what the bible says when it disagrees with your calvinism.

You even disagree with the ESV, the pro calvinist version, when it say we can all be saved through the Son. Rom 5:18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for R6 all men. It even Xref Joh 12:32 "And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself."
 
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