Old folks who think they love old things

[DHK]

I cannot see how this applies.

It does not change any of the FACTS presented thus far.

The fact that prayer and the Bible were taken out of schools, not in the 90's but in the 60s. How does what you say here address this fact?

The fact the divorce rate was its highest, not in the 90's, but in the 70's. It shot up in those decades phenomenally.

The fact that abortion was legalized, not in the 90's, but in the 70's.

The fact that AIDS became an epidemic in the 60's and 70's.

The adults of the 60's and 70's lost this nation.

Deal with facts. I don't care about the names of your heroes. I care, as should all of us, about results.

It shows that the population of the world is increasing at a phenomenal rate.
It shows that Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world and n the U.S. today, and that you are doing precious little to stop it.
It shows that Islamic terrorists created havoc on U.S. soil with the advent of 9/11 and you want to blame it on someone else, but fail to look to yourself for any responsibility.
It shows that in Islamic nations like Pakistan that are known to produce terrorists grow at a much faster rate than the U.S. From the mid-80's to the present its population grew from 130 million to 190 million. But how many missionaries did you send there? And are you willing to go there yourself to stem the tide?

In reality it shows that, contrary to perhaps your own theology,
In the last days perilous times shall come.
Matthew 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
2 Timothy 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

Yes you would like someone to blame the evils of the world on. But for every finger you point at there are four pointing back at you. What are you doing to correct the current evils of the world?

There is lots of evil in this world. For example:
"[FONT=&quot]More than half a billion birth control procedures, including at least 336 million abortions, have been performed in the name of the one-child policy, China's Health ministry revealed yesterday.[/FONT]"
http://www.worthynews.com/top/teleg...abortions-under-Chinas-one-child-policy-html/

Instead of sitting back on your high horse and criticizing, what are you going to do about it?

BTW, there are non-resistant super-bugs, STD's and now polio and TB, all of which have come in just the last couple of years or so--your generation. Scientists are fighting to find a new antibiotic, a new remedy for these.
Epidemics of the Dengue fever hit various nations every year killing hundreds. It is transmitted by mosquitoes and there is no known cure or prevention (except to avoid getting bitten by a mosquito). What are you going to do about that?
The Bible says "love your neighbor as yourself."
Until you take care of these problems, similar to the ones you accuse us of, you don't really love your neighbor do you? You just let them die in their sin.

 

[Arbo]

What opinion?

Is it opinion that AIDS became an epidemic in the 60's and 70's?

Is it opinion that prayer and the Bible was outlawed in the 60's?

Is it opinion that divorce became rampant in that time period?

Is it opinion that abortion was legalized in that time period?


We live in an age that hates acknowledging facts. We don't like concrete objective things.

So facts are called opinions because we think that is more palatable.

I asked a simple question in good faith. If you prefer not to answer for personal reasons, that is understandable, and I respect that. The seemingly antagonistic nature in which you respond reinforces my first impression: that you are a mid- to late- twentysomething year old who considers himself wiser than his years and who glories in an argument for its own sake.

 

[Luke2427]

I asked a simple question in good faith. If you prefer not to answer for personal reasons, that is understandable, and I respect that. The seemingly antagonistic nature in which you respond reinforces my first impression: that you are a mid- to late- twentysomething year old who considers himself wiser than his years and who glories in an argument for its own sake.

I am not in my twenties, and your antagonism toward my pointing out the irrelevancy of your question to this debate is very telling, too.

How old do I need to be to have a valid opinion?

Which one of the things that I cited do you consider opinion and not fact?

How many years of pastoring do I need under my belt before I can speak?

 

[Luke2427]

It shows that the population of the world is increasing at a phenomenal rate.
It shows that Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world and n the U.S. today, and that you are doing precious little to stop it.

Islam is not the fastest growing religion in the U.S. That is something that I have heard other IFB folks parrot about and like many things they preach, it has no basis in reality.

It shows that Islamic terrorists created havoc on U.S. soil with the advent of 9/11 and you want to blame it on someone else, but fail to look to yourself for any responsibility.

How is this relevant? How do the facts I presented lead you to this conclusion???

It shows that in Islamic nations like Pakistan that are known to produce terrorists grow at a much faster rate than the U.S. From the mid-80's to the present its population grew from 130 million to 190 million. But how many missionaries did you send there? And are you willing to go there yourself to stem the tide?

What does this have to do with OUR CULTURE going to hell on YOUR generation's watch?

In reality it shows that, contrary to perhaps your own theology,
In the last days perilous times shall come.
Matthew 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
2 Timothy 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

Yes, what it seems you purport these verses to mean is contrary to my and the BIBLE'S eschatology but that is another thread.

Yes you would like someone to blame the evils of the world on. But for every finger you point at there are four pointing back at you. What are you doing to correct the current evils of the world?

Let's say I am a steaming pile of maggot riddled garbage, like you seem to be trying to make me out to be. Let's say I am. What does that have to do with the FACTS that this culture went to hell, not on my generation's watch, but during the 60's and 70's?

You can't seem to stay on topic. You keep trying to take this discussion off track.

There is lots of evil in this world. For example:
"[FONT=&quot]More than half a billion birth control procedures, including at least 336 million abortions, have been performed in the name of the one-child policy, China's Health ministry revealed yesterday.[/FONT]"
http://www.worthynews.com/top/teleg...abortions-under-Chinas-one-child-policy-html/

Instead of sitting back on your high horse and criticizing, what are you going to do about it?

Once again, what does this have to do with the FACT that OUR culture, not China's, our culture, which is the SUBJECT OF THIS THREAD, went to hell on your watch?

BTW, there are non-resistant super-bugs, STD's and now polio and TB, all of which have come in just the last couple of years or so--your generation. Scientists are fighting to find a new antibiotic, a new remedy for these.
Epidemics of the Dengue fever hit various nations every year killing hundreds. It is transmitted by mosquitoes and there is no known cure or prevention (except to avoid getting bitten by a mosquito). What are you going to do about that?

I think, once again, you missed the point. AIDS is the result largely of gross immorality in a culture.

If malaria makes a comeback and wipes half of the AMerican population off the face of the earth, it is irrelevant to the FACT that this nation went to hell on your watch.

Stay on topic please.

The Bible says "love your neighbor as yourself."
Until you take care of these problems, similar to the ones you accuse us of, you don't really love your neighbor do you? You just let them die in their sin.

Which is what your generation did in the 60s and 70s. It let the whole NATION just about go to hell.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Here is a poll on religious affiliations you may all find interesting.

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/09/survey-one-in-five-americans-is-religiously-unaffiliated/

 

[Luke2427]

Here is a poll on religious affiliations you may all find interesting.

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/09/survey-one-in-five-americans-is-religiously-unaffiliated/

Yes. It is extremely troubling.

 

[just-want-peace]

Somebody needs a Mama's hug real bad!!!:1_grouphug::love2:

 

[Arbo]

I am not in my twenties, and your antagonism toward my pointing out the irrelevancy of your question to this debate is very telling, too.

How old do I need to be to have a valid opinion?

Which one of the things that I cited do you consider opinion and not fact?

How many years of pastoring do I need under my belt before I can speak?

First, I am not trying to be antagonistic. Second, my question about your age is based on my attempt at understanding more fully your perspective regarding this thread that you started and statements of yours, like:

Older folks, its time to pass the torch, don't you think- especially if you really are the ones who perpetuate all this new stuff and do not know any better than to think hat IT is the old stuff.

Look, if you want to count me as an enemy because of some mistaken perception on your part, fine. I've no interest in arguing yet, because so far I see little to argue about.

 

[Luke2427]

First, I am not trying to be antagonistic. Second, my question about your age is based on my attempt at understanding more fully your perspective regarding this thread that you started and statements of yours, like:

Older folks, its time to pass the torch, don't you think- especially if you really are the ones who perpetuate all this new stuff and do not know any better than to think hat IT is the old stuff.

Look, if you want to count me as an enemy because of some mistaken perception on your part, fine. I've no interest in arguing yet, because so far I see little to argue about.

Arbo, when you state that I am "only interested in argument for argument's sake," you are being antagonistic- plain and simple.

I am trying to point out to you that it would not matter if I were five years old- the facts are the facts. My perspective does not change them or alter them in any way.

But since you do seem sincerely interested in my perspective and where I am coming from I am happy to respond.

I am in my mid thirties. I have five children. I have been married for just under 13 years. I have been preaching for just under 18 years. I have been pastoring for 11 years. I have been in full time ministry for 13 years.

I grew up in fundamentalist movements. The Free Will Baptist Church in which I was saved was King James Only, preached against women wearing pants, going to the theater and going to the prom. I literally ended a relationship with a fine Christian young lady who I had been dating for a year over the fact that she wanted to go to the prom.

We were led to believe that Southern Gospel was godly and CCM was sinful. And the camp meetings we attended were all about "the old paths". Except that the people who preached at these meetings were so stupid that they would not know truly old if it bit them on the rear. They think of old in terms of their generation.

These types were rampant in the 60's and 70's.

The other type that was rampant was actual theological liberals (which is why the Conservative resurgence in the early 80's was necessary).

In the middle were a few good church and Christians and many others who were very man centered.

Very few before Falwel's Moral Majority engaged the culture. (And I am not necessarily a fan of the Moral Majority either.)

I contend that the LAST thing we need to do is go back to this dreadful period of time.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Come on LUKE, you gotta concede that you come into a forum & open up conversation like a bull in a china shop. Im certain your doing that for effect.....but this subject matter is so polarized that even by softening the message, you would of had dialog & debate. Augustine categorized his early profession as his being a "Persuader" & note he had a velvet hand in most initiatives. You dont start off anything like that.

You know what they say, "You get more flies with honey".... Right:thumbs:

 

[Luke2427]

Come on LUKE, you gotta concede that you come into a forum & open up conversation like a bull in a china shop. Im certain your doing that for effect.....but this subject matter is so polarized that even by softening the message, you would of had dialog & debate. Augustine categorized his early profession as his being a "Persuader" & note he had a velvet hand in most initiatives. You dont start off anything like that.

You know what they say, "You get more flies with honey".... Right:thumbs:

Augustine utterly OBLITERATED Pelagius.

Luther cut Erasmas into pieces.

There is a time for a velvet glove.

And there is a time for a sledge hammer.

And you might be shocked to learn that you actually catch more flies with vinegar than honey.

I have chickens so I have flies. I went to youtube a couple years ago and looked up a recipe for fly attractant for a fly trap.

The number one ingredient was vinegar. You mix a little sugar and vinegar together and put the solution in the bottom of a 2 litder bottle. I cut the top of the bottle off and turned it upside down and taped it back to the top (like a funnel taped to the bottle).

I have caught THOUSANDS of flies with vinegar.


And I have never pastored a church that did not either almost or more than double in size.

It is a myth that you have to pet everybody to win people. There are millions of people out there who are just waiting for somebody to come along and drop the bomb on this sissified shallow mess that characterizes our culture.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Augustine utterly OBLITERATED Pelagius.

No he didnt....otherwise we wouldnt have any P's & Semi-P's around today.

Regarding the chickens, try some food grade Diatomaceous Earth....will worm your animals & eliminate the flys...even help with the dung & urine smells.

http://www.richsoil.com/diatomaceous-earth.jsp

 

[Luke2427]

No he didnt....otherwise we wouldnt have any P's & Semi-P's around today.

Regarding the chickens, try some food grade Diatomaceous Earth....will worm your animals & eliminate the flys...even help with the dung & urine smells.

http://www.richsoil.com/diatomaceous-earth.jsp

That is very interesting. Thanks, I will look into that.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Ive been in sales & marketing for over 40 years.....you dont insult your client. I could even show you where the US Military teaches Special Forces to not be insulting & demeaning. There are tons of hypersensitive people out there. You dont have to be a wimp but you dont have to be a Bull in a China Shop either. You can convey your message with strength & determination ....and subtlety.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

That is very interesting. Thanks, I will look into that.

I dont get any flies when I use DE....even taken to using it in the garden (its harmless food grade) for cut worms & squash bore worms.

 

[Luke2427]

Ive been in sales & marketing for over 40 years.....you dont insult your client.

I am not proffering anything. I cannot imagine a more inappropriate analogy to a Gospel preacher.

I could even show you where the US Military teaches Special Forces to not be insulting & demeaning.

Yes. But you cannot show where the BIBLE says that preachers and prohets should never be harsh and demeaning. But I can show you plenty of examples where they were.

There are tons of hypersensitive people out there.

And the philosophy you want me to adopt exacerbates the problem. You don't pet cancer. You cut it out.

You dont have to be a wimp but you dont have to be a Bull in a China Shop either.

Mythbusters had an episode where they tested the bull in the china shop myth. They released a bunch of bulls in a makeshift china shop and those bulls ran all round it without breaking a single piece of china.

You can convey your message with strength & determination ....and subtlety.

You can. And there is a time for that. And then there is a time for doing it the more common way you see it done in the Bible.

 

[Luke2427]

I dont get any flies when I use DE....even taken to using it in the garden (its harmless food grade) for cut worms & squash bore worms.

That's excellent.

Where do you get it?

 

[DHK]

Arbo, when you state that I am "only interested in argument for argument's sake," you are being antagonistic- plain and simple.

There is this matter of credibility.

the facts are the facts. My perspective does not change them or alter them in any way.

Yeah, right.

I am in my mid thirties.

I have five children. I have been married for just under 13 years. I have been preaching for just under 18 years. I have been pastoring for 11 years. I have been in full time ministry for 13 years.

These types were rampant in the 60's and 70's.

Like I said: Credibility?

The other type that was rampant was actual theological liberals (which is why the Conservative resurgence in the early 80's was necessary).

And how old were you then?
Most of us have lived through those eras.

 

[Luke2427]

There is this matter of credibility.

Yeah, right.

So let me get this straight. You don't think it is a fact that prayer was taken out of school in 1963??

You don't think it is a fact that AIDS, a disease that is largely the result of immorality, became an epidemic in the 60's and 70's??

You don't think it is a fact the Roe v Wade passed in the 70's?

You don't think that "free love" and the hippy movement was one of the most ungodly and immoral uprisings in this nation's history?

You don't think it is a fact that they were having mass sex orgies on the White House lawn in the 60's??

 

[DHK]

So let me get this straight. You don't think it is a fact that prayer was taken out of school in 1963??

You don't think it is a fact that AIDS, a disease that is largely the result of immorality, became an epidemic in the 60's and 70's??

Facts?? AIDS was first clinically observed in 1981.

You don't think it is a fact the Roe v Wade passed in the 70's?

You don't think that "free love" and the hippy movement was one of the most ungodly and immoral uprisings in this nation's history?

You don't think it is a fact that they were having mass sex orgies on the White House lawn in the 60's??

Most of the other things you mention have direct relation to American history. I am Canadian. It wasn't until 1996 that prayer in the public schools was challenged based on the charter of rights and freedom of religion. That was in B.C. It was in 1988 in Ontario. Every province is different.
I wasn't too concerned about it. I never did favor having unsaved people leading prayers for unsaved individuals. The children of the devil praying for other children of the devil inoculating them against Biblical Christianity especially when using the Lord's Prayer in such hypocrisy.

[FONT=&quot]They could do what they wanted. I vowed never to send my children to a public school. I would either send them to a private Christian school or home-school them.[/FONT]