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Old folks who think they love old things

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
Independent Fundamental Baptist - A denomination that tries to not be a denomination and often (NOT ALWAYS!) is legalistic. They are frequently KJVO, very dispensational, Pastor rule, and very evangelistic. However their evangelism is often the worst example of the word in that they just get people to praying a prayer and declare them gloriously saved.

I was involved in IFB for a few years but had many problems which I tried to work it out with the pastor at the last church, but he was pretty much unwilling to really discuss anything so my wife and I left last year.
First, your post simply demonstrates that you had a bad experience in an IFB church.
Second you demonstrate a logical fallacy of "sweeping generalization" or painting all IFB churches with the same broad brush of your one small experience.

Next you call IFB churches a "denomination." What part of "independent" do you not understand?
Also, I suspect you don't have a proper definition of "legalistic". If you did, you would be labeling all of us unsaved, just as Paul did to those who drew away the Galatians from the faith. He said about those legalists that they preached "another gospel" and were accursed. That is a harsh condemnation against your brothers in Christ.

Then, they are frequently non-KjVO, like ours. Again, based on your bad experience it is another sweeping generalization.
Their evangelistic methods are probably some of the best methods used, and that is why IFB churches have some of the largest churches in America. But then you don't take the time to find out what those methods are. Again, you had a bad experience. Another sweeping generalization.

"Just getting people to repeat a prayer." How wrong you are! That is as good as slander in my books. At least it is saying things that are not true. You fail to do your research. You post in ignorance. You ought to be ashamed of what you post.
 

RLBosley

Active Member
EDIT:Retracted - I'm upset and answered harshly and in a unchristian manner. DHK I apologize.
 
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TCassidy

Late-Administator Emeritus
Administrator
Brother, this old dumb, stupid, ignorant Christian, a teenager in the early 60's, gives you a big thank you.
You're quite welcome. I too was a teen in the early 60s. In fact I was a teen in 1960.

I don't really have a problem with some of the threads getting a bit heated, and bantering back and forth, but I have a BIG problem when a thread is designed to heap scorn and ridicule on those Christians who may have a different perspective than the OP's.

Some of the young pups (meant lovingly, of course) on the forum sometimes seem to think their experiences, background, and education are the only valid ones. They fail to understand that it was those old timers, like us, who built the churches, colleges, and seminaries where these young people got their upbringing and educations.

His major problem seems to be that he has very little understanding of the older generation and what they believe.

For instance, he says:
They love the "old hymns".
Wrong right off the bat. We don't love "old hymns." (And the correct way of using the quote is to put the quote outside the period. Maybe he didn't attend one of the colleges/seminaries we founded. Had he done so he would have a better understanding of English grammar. :) ) What we love are the "traditional" hymns sung in the traditional manner. Even the traditional hymns can grate on our ears if played/sung in a "rock and roll" manner, and many of the best songs and hymns were written in and by our "old" generation! Bill Gaither, writer of some of the very best songs, is a member of our "old" generation (Bill is 76).
They love the "old mourner's bench."
Wrong again. What we love is the tender hearts of God's people who recognize their own sinfullness and the Holiness of God and are willing to bow the knee and the stiff neck before His Throne.
They love old timey "camp meetings"
No, but we do love the powerful preaching of the word of God, but unless the camp has an air conditioned chapel and comfortable pews these old bones would prefer our church's beautiful auditorium.
They say they are still standing for the old faith which consists of the Book (by which SOME, not all, of them mena the KJV), the blood (by which many of them mean divine blood- a new doctrine) and the blessed hope ( by which most of them mean the rapture.)
Yes, we stand for the old faith. You may have heard of it. Jude mentions it in verse 3. "Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints."

The Book? Yes, we stand firmly planted in the revealed word of God. I am now retired but prior to my retirement I used the NKJV. The church where I presently attend uses the ESV in the pulpit and Sunday School. The ESV is an excellent English translation.

The Blood? Yes, we believe in the Blood, also known as the substitutionary atonement of Christ. The only alternative to His sacrifice is works based salvation.

The Blessed Hope? Yes, we believe in the Blessed Hope of the return of Christ. After all that is one of the Fundamentals of the Faith. To deny the return of Christ is to deny the clear teaching of the Scriptures. However, the timing and manner of His sure return is certainly open for discussion, at least among those with open minds. :)
It is REMARKABLE how they THINK these things are old.
It is funny that he refers to us as "old" but the things he mentions are much older than most of us but they are not "old!" LOL!

No, young man, we do not make the mistake of thinking our church culture here in the US is "old." We know when and where these things had their beginnings. Perhaps you could lay aside your critical spirit long enough to understand us, our faith, our preference in worship styles, etc., before you post more inaccurate and disrespectful nonsense about the senior saints on the forum.

Just a little aside. You say you have been a pastor for 11 years. Good for you. Keep up the good work. I spent 40 years in the ministry, 26 years as Senior Pastor of the same church. I also spend 25 years as a bible college and seminary professor. I saw a lot of young people who thought their preferences were the only ones that were correct and those who had different preferences in types of music, or bible of choice, etc., were stupid old fogies who were only good for laughing at. But, by the grace of God most of those young people grew out of their arrogant assumption that they, and they alone, had all the answers. Sadly, the ones who did not grow out of it ended up with a shipwrecked ministry and, for the most part, are no longer serving God in any full time ministry. Beware you do not stumble over the same arrogance and self righteousness that tripped up so many other good men who could not see past their own preferences, nor could they grant others the Christian liberty to have their own preferences. :)

(By the way, our youngest will be 39 next month. Our oldest will be 49 next December. You say that it was my generation that lost America. I contend you are wrong. My generation was the last to fight for our liberty, and the liberty of others all around the world. My brother-in-law flew 212 missions over "flak alley" (from airfields in England to bomb Berlin) during WWII. My brother was an Army Sergeant during Korea. I served during Vietnam. It was your generation, given the vote by means of the 26th amendment in 1971 that began the downfall of the once great country I, and my brothers in arms, fought for.)

:)
 
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Monster

New Member
You're quite welcome. I too was a teen in the early 60s. In fact I was a teen in 1960.

I don't really have a problem with some of the threads getting a bit heated, and bantering back and forth, but I have a BIG problem when a thread is designed to heap scorn and ridicule on those Christians who may have a different perspective than the OP's.

Some of the young pups (meant lovingly, of course) on the forum sometimes seem to think their experiences, background, and education are the only valid ones. They fail to understand that it was those old timers, like us, who built the churches, colleges, and seminaries where these young people got their upbringing and educations.

His major problem seems to be that he has very little understanding of the older generation and what they believe.

For instance, he says:Wrong right off the bat. We don't love "old hymns." (And the correct way of using the quote is to put the quote outside the period. Maybe he didn't attend one of the colleges/seminaries we founded. Had he done so he would have a better understanding of English grammar. :) ) What we love are the "traditional" hymns sung in the traditional manner. Even the traditional hymns can grate on our ears if played/sung in a "rock and roll" manner, and many of the best songs and hymns were written in and by our "old" generation! Bill Gaither, writer of some of the very best songs, is a member of our "old" generation (Bill is 76).
Wrong again. What we love is the tender hearts of God's people who recognize their own sinfullness and the Holiness of God and are willing to bow the knee and the stiff neck before His Throne.No, but we do love the powerful preaching of the word of God, but unless the camp has an air conditioned chapel and comfortable pews these old bones would prefer our church's beautiful auditorium. Yes, we stand for the old faith. You may have heard of it. Jude mentions it in verse 3. "Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints."

The Book? Yes, we stand firmly planted in the revealed word of God. I am now retired but prior to my retirement I used the NKJV. The church where I presently attend uses the ESV in the pulpit and Sunday School. The ESV is an excellent English translation.

The Blood? Yes, we believe in the Blood, also known as the substitutionary atonement of Christ. The only alternative to His sacrifice is works based salvation.

The Blessed Hope? Yes, we believe in the Blessed Hope of the return of Christ. After all that is one of the Fundamentals of the Faith. To deny the return of Christ is to deny the clear teaching of the Scriptures. However, the timing and manner of His sure return is certainly open for discussion, at least among those with open minds. :)
It is funny that he refers to us as "old" but the things he mentions are much older than most of us but they are not "old!" LOL!

No, young man, we do not make the mistake of thinking our church culture here in the US is "old." We know when and where these things had their beginnings. Perhaps you could lay aside your critical spirit long enough to understand us, our faith, our preference in worship styles, etc., before you post more inaccurate and disrespectful nonsense about the senior saints on the forum.

Just a little aside. You say you have been a pastor for 11 years. Good for you. Keep up the good work. I spent 40 years in the ministry, 26 years as Senior Pastor of the same church. I also spend 25 years as a bible college and seminary professor. I saw a lot of young people who thought their preferences were the only ones that were correct and those who had different preferences in types of music, or bible of choice, etc., were stupid old fogies who were only good for laughing at. But, by the grace of God most of those young people grew out of their arrogant assumption that they, and they alone, had all the answers. Sadly, the ones who did not grow out of it ended up with a shipwrecked ministry and, for the most part, are no longer serving God in any full time ministry. Beware you do not stumble over the same arrogance and self righteousness that tripped up so many other good men who could not see past their own preferences, nor could they grant others the Christian liberty to have their own preferences. :)

(By the way, our youngest will be 39 next month. Our oldest will be 49 next December. You say that it was my generation that lost America. I contend you are wrong. My generation was the last to fight for our liberty, and the liberty of others all around the world. My brother-in-law flew 212 missions over "flak alley" (from airfields in England to bomb Berlin) during WWII. My brother was an Army Sergeant during Korea. I served during Vietnam. It was your generation, given the vote by means of the 26th amendment in 1971 that began the downfall of the once great country I, and my brothers in arms, fought for.)

And my award for "Post of The Year", thus far, goes to this one!

Great post, excellent response. Well stated, lovingly put. :thumbsup:
 

just-want-peace

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Well stated, TC, very well stated!!!
I can still remember (76 now) the attitudes I had as a young pup; sorta like Luke, but not as "arrogant" as him, but the same basic view of the "oldsters".
But I had long abandoned that view by his age - hopefully he will wise up and correct his downward trajectory 'fore long.
 

Benjamin

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
...........................................

Forget what you were going to say???
old.gif



Just kidding. Couldn't resist.
Zleave_rofl.gif
 

Rippon

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I too was a teen in the early 60s. In fact I was a teen in 1960.
It was your generation, given the vote by means of the 26th amendment in 1971 that began the downfall of the once great country I, and my brothers in arms, fought for.)
If you were a teen in 1960 and the 26th amendment was passed in 1971,that would mean you are of the very same generation. So the downfall started with your generation. You can't blame it on the following generation.
 
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TCassidy

Late-Administator Emeritus
Administrator
If you were a teen in 1960 and the 26th amendment was passed in 1971,that would mean you are of the very same generation. So the downfall started with your generation. You can't blame it on the following generation.

Didn't major in math did you. :)

The 26 amendment was passed 11 years after I was a teen. :D

The hint was in the age of my children. My oldest will be 50 this year, and my "baby" will be 40. :)
 

Rippon

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
The 26 amendment was passed 11 years after I was a teen.
So? You were a teen in 1960. Others were teens in 1971. You were in their same generation. A generation is normally considered be about 40 years.If you were an old teen of 19 in 1960 and someone else became 19 in 1970 --both of you fall within the same demographic range. A 10 year spread is a rather slight range.
 
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TCassidy

Late-Administator Emeritus
Administrator
So? You were a teen in 1960. Others were teens in 1971. You were in their same generation. A generation is normally considered be about 40 years.If you were an old teen of 19 in 1960 and someone else became 19 in 1970 --both of you fall within the same demographic range. A 10 year spread is a rather slight range.
The point was that the 26th amendment did not affect my ability to vote. I was well into adulthood by 1971. The 26th amendment applied to those who were between 18 and 20 in 1971 (and ever since) which, obviously, did not include me.

New voters between 18-21 constitute up to 10% of the electorate in some states. Young people that age have little understanding of politics and tend to vote leftist.

Not to mention that the human brain does not fully mature until around age 22-24. So you have highly immature people casting up to 10% of the vote, which is greater than the margin between winners and losers for any given office. :)
 

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Tell me about it! The only good thing about old age is that it doesn't last very long! :D

Tom, my Great Grandfather buried his wife & two of his children & worked a 100 Acre farm in NE Pennsylvania (the old fashioned way--plowing with horses). Bottom line, he lived well into his 80's & he had a handshake like a vice grip. My grandfather lived till he was 88, a coal miner since he was 11.

Maybe hard work has other rewards that we neglect.
 

JohnDeereFan

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
It is interesting to me how many old people on this board and in our culture talk about loving things they call "old"

They love the "old hymns".

They love the "old mourner's bench."

They love old timey "camp meetings"

They say they are still standing for the old faith which consists of the Book (by which SOME, not all, of them mena the KJV), the blood (by which many of them mean divine blood- a new doctrine) and the blessed hope ( by which most of them mean the rapture.)

It is REMARKABLE how they THINK these things are old.

And all the while we have in this youngest adult generation a revival of love for TRULY old things.

Old people today are largely the ones who perpetuate new stuff and the youngest people are the ones who want us to return to the truly old stuff.

Because by "old hymns" old people mean "I'd Rather Have Jesus," written a few decades a ago!! Remarkable!!

By "The Book" many of the refer to the KJVO or KJVP doctrine which is hardly one hundreds years OLD!! Amazing!

By "Blessed Hope" they mean the RAPTURE which is a brand new doctrine so far as Church History is concerned. Though Darby basically invented it in 1830 it was Scofield, not long dead, and Pentecostals and TBN, both very new movements which made it mainstream.

The "Old Mourner's Bench" speaks of the altar which, though a few utilized before Finny, a very few, Finney made it mainstream just over 100 years ago!!


Older folks, its time to pass the torch, don't you think- especially if you really are the ones who perpetuate all this new stuff and do not know any better than to think that IT is the old stuff.


Disclaimer: not all old people fit this bill. So I am not speaking to them. But MANY MANY do. I am speaking to them.

Yes, I know we're slowing being pushed out of the Church by the idiots in the skinny jeans and the Jesus is My Girlfriend music. But I'm still going to fight against that.

Funny how the Bible says that the older saints are the ones to be emulated by the young ones, but in this generation, everything old is bad.

You can bad mouth me and those of my generation all you like, but I'm still going to dress for church as if it's church, I'm still going to believe that 'Tis Finished, The Messiah Dies is better than the modern shallow "worship" music nonsense that does nothing but glorify man and feminize God, and I'm still going to get behind solid, expositional preaching and reject your Ed Young Jr nonsense.
 
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Luke2427

Active Member
Yes, I know we're slowing being pushed out of the Church by the idiots in the skinny jeans and the Jesus is My Girlfriend music. But I'm still going to fight against that.

Funny how the Bible says that the older saints are the ones to be emulated by the young ones, but in this generation, everything old is bad.

You can bad mouth me and those of my generation all you like, but I'm still going to dress for church as if it's church, I'm still going to believe that 'Tis Finished, The Messiah Dies is better than the modern shallow "worship" music nonsense that does nothing but glorify man and feminize God, and I'm still going to get behind solid, expositional preaching and reject your Ed Young Jr nonsense.

You missed the point.

Yes, there are a lot of skinny jeans types of young people.

But there are also many who are not that type who want the truly old things.

A good example is the one you mentioned. There is a revival of expository preaching in this generation.

The point I am trying to make is that many folks in their 60s talk about loving old things but when you ask them "WHAT old things?" they list songs written in the 50's, going to the altar (which has only been a permeating practice in the church for a little more than a century), etc...

The point is that these old people (not ALL old people) fight young people for old ways that are not old. They are actually fighting young people for wanting the same things they want: stuff that was fresh when they were young.
 
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