Old Testament Kingdom Prophecies. Literally or spiritually understood?

[1689Dave]

So, you can't prove that Matthew and Paul teach that "Jesus is Israel." I asked for Scripture and you can't provide any. Are you some kind of authority that everyone should believe without Scriptural proof?

I can prove it and have many times over. But if it will create a debate, why exploit it?

 

[1689Dave]

Um, yeah, this can b a premil statement just as easy. I could sign this. Remember, there is David's throne and the Kingdom of God in the premil position: two kingdoms. The Davidic throne is clearly 1000 years, and the Kingdom of God clearly forever.


Please prove from Scripture that Millennialism is heresy. It is more usual that the amil position is heresy--heresy being Biblically that which causes division. You are now causing division by stating that the amil position is the only Biblical position.

Oh, and by the way, what in the world is "the church"? If you mean the 4th century "church," that was not God's church in many cases. My church and all the churches I grew up in and pastored preach premil. So in my world, "the church" teaches that millennialism is NOT heresy.

For what it's worth, when my grandfather went to seminary in the late 1920's, he was taught the amil position. Unfortunately for his profs, he was also taught solid Greek exegesis. When he examined the Scriptures literally, he changed his mind. When one believes in "spiritual" interpretation (which isn't), he can come up with whatever position he wants to.

Your physical kingdom ENDs in flames. The Kingdom Jesus preached is forever.

 

[1689Dave]

Um, yeah, this can b a premil statement just as easy. I could sign this. Remember, there is David's throne and the Kingdom of God in the premil position: two kingdoms. The Davidic throne is clearly 1000 years, and the Kingdom of God clearly forever.


Please prove from Scripture that Millennialism is heresy. It is more usual that the amil position is heresy--heresy being Biblically that which causes division. You are now causing division by stating that the amil position is the only Biblical position.

Oh, and by the way, what in the world is "the church"? If you mean the 4th century "church," that was not God's church in many cases. My church and all the churches I grew up in and pastored preach premil. So in my world, "the church" teaches that millennialism is NOT heresy.

For what it's worth, when my grandfather went to seminary in the late 1920's, he was taught the amil position. Unfortunately for his profs, he was also taught solid Greek exegesis. When he examined the Scriptures literally, he changed his mind. When one believes in "spiritual" interpretation (which isn't), he can come up with whatever position he wants to.

Literal destroys meaning. Of course, he would falter. Jesus said the kingdom is Spiritual. Therefore all kingdom prophecies in the OT and Revelation are Symbolic. Only the Pharisees disagreed with him.

 

[George Antonios]

“And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.” Revelation 13:8 (KJV 1900)

Are you saying God can't trust himself to deliver? Even though he controls all?

Hunh?

 

[George Antonios]

Your physical kingdom ENDs in flames. The Kingdom Jesus preached is forever.

No, it survives the flames and goes out into eternity:
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isa 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

 

[George Antonios]

 

[John of Japan]

I can prove it and have many times over. But if it will create a debate, why exploit it?

Thanks! I got a good laugh out of that. Seems like right now we are on a "debate thread," so the debate has already been created. Just admit it. You can't prove it.

 

[John of Japan]

Literal destroys meaning. Of course, he would falter. Jesus said the kingdom is Spiritual. Therefore all kingdom prophecies in the OT and Revelation are Symbolic. Only the Pharisees disagreed with him.

Yeah, right, "literal destroy's meaning." So go down to the grocery store and tell them, "I wish for bread." Then when you get bread, tell them, "No, no, I wanted potatoes. Don't you understand spiritual interpretation?"

So first thing in the morning you read your Bible and are so blessed by your "spiritual" interpretation. Then all day long you do literal interpretation with everyone you talk to. Got it.

Got to go. Have a great weekend.

 

[xlsdraw]

The Nicene Creed

We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of His Father before all worlds; God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made; Who, for us men and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary, and was made man; and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate; He suffered and was buried; and the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures; and ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again, with glory, to judge both the living and the dead; Whose kingdom shall have no end.

And we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of Life; who proceeds from the Father and the Son; who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified; who spoke by the prophets. And we believe in one holy catholic* and apostolic church. We acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins; and we look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

Ephesus made this creed unchangeable so you get it twice. Millennialism is heresy according to the Scriptures and the Church.

Your Catholic Creed was quite vague and incorporates self-servicing false doctrines. The Holy Spirit would not guide such vague manipulable guidance. Which is why I stick with the scriptures. I base nothing on Catholicism.

 

[Yeshua1]

Will, any of the elect perish? The gospel binds him. But I think we are at the point where he is now loosed. Near the return of Christ.

Satan being bound means no more false religions and wars about!

 

[Yeshua1]

Your Catholic Creed was quite vague and incorporates self-servicing false doctrines. The Holy Spirit would not guide such vague manipulable guidance. Which is why I stick with the scriptures. I base nothing on Catholicism.

Only the scriptures thought was the Baptist mantra!

 

[Yeshua1]

"In its latest form?" What in the world does that mean? Do you actually believe in the evolution of the Gospel??

Guess that means that A Mil was the final revelation?

 

[Yeshua1]

Abraham had the gospel. Was it as complete as the one Peter sand Paul preached?

ALL that he had was that God would send one day the Lamb of God, promised messiah!

 

[Yeshua1]

Matthew and Paul teach Jesus (and consequently the church) are Israel. Some of the most learned were the greatest deceivers today and in church history.

So all who held to any form of premil were all deceived and wicked then? Spurgeon, Macarthur, and their like?

 

[Yeshua1]

Um, yeah, this can b a premil statement just as easy. I could sign this. Remember, there is David's throne and the Kingdom of God in the premil position: two kingdoms. The Davidic throne is clearly 1000 years, and the Kingdom of God clearly forever.


Please prove from Scripture that Millennialism is heresy. It is more usual that the amil position is heresy--heresy being Biblically that which causes division. You are now causing division by stating that the amil position is the only Biblical position.

Oh, and by the way, what in the world is "the church"? If you mean the 4th century "church," that was not God's church in many cases. My church and all the churches I grew up in and pastored preach premil. So in my world, "the church" teaches that millennialism is NOT heresy.

For what it's worth, when my grandfather went to seminary in the late 1920's, he was taught the amil position. Unfortunately for his profs, he was also taught solid Greek exegesis. When he examined the Scriptures literally, he changed his mind. When one believes in "spiritual" interpretation (which isn't), he can come up with whatever position he wants to.

Same thing happened to j vernon mgee, as he went to Westminister Seminary, a fine school, but started ourt Amil and left pre!

 

[Yeshua1]

Just for the record, gospel just means "glad tidings".
The gospel that was preached to Abraham was the "glad tidings" that Galatians 3:8 itself defines: In thee shall all nations be blessed. It was the glad tidings that Abraham would beget a supernatural seed through whom even the Gentiles would be blessed. Full stop. It was not that that seed would die on a cross, be buried, then rise again the third day to save all who believe on his name. That was a further revelation only clarified around the time of the cross, which is why even the apostles had no idea what Christ was talking about when he repeatedly stated he would die and rise again.
No one was saved by looking forward to the cross. That line sounds good, but finds no Biblical support.

God only has saved lost sinners by grace alone thru faith alone!On the basis of the Cross of Christ!

 

[Yeshua1]

Your physical kingdom ENDs in flames. The Kingdom Jesus preached is forever.

That Kingdom turned over to the Father in the end, how is that being destroyed?

 

[1689Dave]

That Kingdom turned over to the Father in the end, how is that being destroyed?

The earth and heavens pass away in intense heat. Why say the kingdom is for the 1000 years and then deny it?

 

[1689Dave]

So all who held to any form of premil were all deceived and wicked then? Spurgeon, Macarthur, and their like?

Not one of them ever preached the gospel of the kingdom.

 

[1689Dave]

ALL that he had was that God would send one day the Lamb of God, promised messiah!

And that was the bedrock of the gospel.