One or both views are irrational.

[AustinC]

The problem is what it seems to be with much of what you say, Austin you are reading into the text what you want to find rather than seeing what the text actually says.

I read this:
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,

and before you were born I consecrated you;

I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”

1) God knew Jeremiah before he was in the womb.
2) Before birth Jeremiah was consecrated (declared a holy vessel before God)
3) God gave Jeremiah the job of prophet to the nations before the womb

My question is, knowing all this, was Jeremiah saved?

You say that you cannot know from this passage.
I tell you that we can absolutely know and say with strong affirmation that Jeremiah was saved.

Either you are ignorant of God's word or you are being a coward with God's word. I suspect coward since if you admit Jeremiah's saving faith, it destroys your free will philosophy.

 

[Silverhair]

I read this:
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,

and before you were born I consecrated you;

I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”

1) God knew Jeremiah before he was in the womb.
2) Before birth Jeremiah was consecrated (declared a holy vessel before God)
3) God gave Jeremiah the job of prophet to the nations before the womb

My question is, knowing all this, was Jeremiah saved?

You say that you cannot know from this passage.
I tell you that we can absolutely know and say with strong affirmation that Jeremiah was saved.

Either you are ignorant of God's word or you are being a coward with God's word. I suspect coward since if you admit Jeremiah's saving faith, it destroys your free will philosophy.

I do not suspect but rather it is obvious that you read into the text.

Sanctified - rather, separated. The primary meaning is to set apart from a common to a special use; hence, arose the secondary sense, to sanctify, ceremonially and morally. It is not here meant that Yahweh cleansed Jeremiah from original sin, or regenerated him by his Spirit; but separated him to his special prophetic office, including in its range not merely the Hebrews, but also the nations hostile to them JFB

Rather, “Before I formed thee in the belly.” I approved of thee (as one fit for the prophetic office),” and before thou camest forth from the womb” I made thee holy (dedicated thee to holy uses); I have appointed thee (now by this public call to be) “a prophet unto the nations.” Barnes

Austin you really are a nasty person. Your language is to say the least not Christian. You come across as a very angry person. These quotes are from calvinists so it would seem they do not even agree with your, read into the text, view.

My view of man's free will does not depend upon one text. as you seem to think. Free will is biblical you just can not accept that as it would destroy your theology.

 

[37818]

I take this as your way of saying you cannot discuss theology.

You are making an accusation. What is your rational reason for this?

 

[37818]

Calvinism is logically and rationally flawless; so much so, that all points must be believed and cannot stand alone.

Unconditional election is not even Biblical. Not really rational.

 

[37818]

The problem with you brethren is YOU have the wrong man... When did man become like us?... On the cross!... No sinful man of our race qualifies... Only Jesus Christ the Son Of God and as scripture says is called the second Adam... Only he can satisfy all the wrath of God carry out all that is appointed to him in Genesis 3:15 and saves all his Father gave him... To try to fit sinful Adam in that scripture YOU will never understand it... No wonder very few understand, the grace of God... Salvation by Jesus Christ alone?... Take sinful Adam out of the picture and the man mentioned The God Man Jesus Christ is as clear as a bell... Brother Glen

Isaiah 53: 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.


2 Corinthians 5: 21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Wow. You really do not understand Genesis 3:22.

 

[AustinC]

Unconditional election is not even Biblical. Not really rational.

Explain your assertion.
What conditions did God require before the foundation of the world?

 

[AustinC]

You are making an accusation. What is your rational reason for this?

You have never given us your systematic theology laid out for all to read. Provide your thesis for us.

 

[AustinC]

I do not suspect but rather it is obvious that you read into the text.

Sanctified - rather, separated. The primary meaning is to set apart from a common to a special use; hence, arose the secondary sense, to sanctify, ceremonially and morally. It is not here meant that Yahweh cleansed Jeremiah from original sin, or regenerated him by his Spirit; but separated him to his special prophetic office, including in its range not merely the Hebrews, but also the nations hostile to them JFB

Rather, “Before I formed thee in the belly.” I approved of thee (as one fit for the prophetic office),” and before thou camest forth from the womb” I made thee holy (dedicated thee to holy uses); I have appointed thee (now by this public call to be) “a prophet unto the nations.” Barnes

Austin you really are a nasty person. Your language is to say the least not Christian. You come across as a very angry person. These quotes are from calvinists so it would seem they do not even agree with your, read into the text, view.

My view of man's free will does not depend upon one text. as you seem to think. Free will is biblical you just can not accept that as it would destroy your theology.

All this and you refuse to say whether Jeremiah was saved by God's choosing him before being formed in the womb and giving Jeremiah faith to believe.
Ever you look to tear down the work of God so that you can lift up man in His place.
I fear for you when you stand before our King.

 

[Alan Gross]

I do not suspect but rather it is obvious that you read into the text.

Sanctified - rather, separated. The primary meaning is to set apart from a common to a special use; hence, arose the secondary sense, to sanctify, ceremonially and morally. It is not here meant that Yahweh cleansed Jeremiah from original sin, or regenerated him by his Spirit; but separated him to his special prophetic office, including in its range not merely the Hebrews, but also the nations hostile to them JFB

Rather, “Before I formed thee in the belly.” I approved of thee (as one fit for the prophetic office),” and before thou camest forth from the womb” I made thee holy (dedicated thee to holy uses); I have appointed thee (now by this public call to be) “a prophet unto the nations.” Barnes

Austin you really are a nasty person. Your language is to say the least not Christian. You come across as a very angry person. These quotes are from calvinists so it would seem they do not even agree with your, read into the text, view.

My view of man's free will does not depend upon one text. as you seem to think. Free will is biblical you just can not accept that as it would destroy your theology.

John 1:12-13; But as many as received him,
to them gave he power to become the sons of God,
even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood,
nor of the will of the flesh,
nor of the will of man,
but of God.

John 15:3; Now ye are clean
through the word which I have spoken unto you.

I Peter 1:23; Being born again, not of corruptible seed,
but of incorruptible, by the word of God,
which liveth and abideth forever.

John 3:3; 5-8; Jesus answered and said unto him,
Verily, verily, I say unto thee,
Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee,
Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit,
he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh;
and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth,
and thou hearest the sound thereof,
but canst not tell whence it cometh,
and whither it goeth:

so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Romans 9:16; So then it is not of him that willeth,
nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

I Cor. 4:15; For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ,
yet have ye not many fathers:
for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

Eph. 2:10; 4:24; For we are his workmanship,
created in Christ Jesus unto good works,
which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

And that ye put on the new man,
which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

I Thess. 1:5; For our gospel came not unto you in word only,
but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost,
and in much assurance;

as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

Titus 3:5-6; Not by works of righteousness which we have done,
but according to his mercy he saved us,
by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

James 1:18; Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth,
that we should be a kind of first fruits of his creatures.

I Peter 1:23; Being born again, not of corruptible seed,
but of incorruptible, by the word of God,
which liveth and abideth forever.

The foregoing scriptures prove without a shadow of a doubt
that The Work of REGENERATION
is wholly a Work of God the Holy Spirit,
through The WORD
which Enables the sinner
to Spiritually REPENT and Hear the Gospel.

 

[37818]

Explain your assertion.
What conditions did God require before the foundation of the world?

God hasn't told us. But only given hints.
For the start, God first. Genesis 1:1.

 

[37818]

You have never given us your systematic theology laid out for all to read. Provide your thesis for us.

So have you written yours yet?

How one knows anything comes before what one knows.

Know so salvation.

Knowing God Himself.

The fall of man. And the cause of man's sinful nature.

The two creations. The now and it's replacement.

 

[Silverhair]

All this and you refuse to say whether Jeremiah was saved by God's choosing him before being formed in the womb and giving Jeremiah faith to believe.
Ever you look to tear down the work of God so that you can lift up man in His place.
I fear for you when you stand before our King.

It is obvious that you are reading into the text and you even disagree with other calvinists. Read the text and show us where it says Jeremiah was saved.
Jer 1:5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet to the nations."

 

[Silverhair]

John 1:12-13; But as many as received him,
to them gave he power to become the sons of God,
even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood,
nor of the will of the flesh,
nor of the will of man,
but of God.

John 15:3; Now ye are clean
through the word which I have spoken unto you.

I Peter 1:23; Being born again, not of corruptible seed,
but of incorruptible, by the word of God,
which liveth and abideth forever.

John 3:3; 5-8; Jesus answered and said unto him,
Verily, verily, I say unto thee,
Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee,
Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit,
he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh;
and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth,
and thou hearest the sound thereof,
but canst not tell whence it cometh,
and whither it goeth:

so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Romans 9:16; So then it is not of him that willeth,
nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

I Cor. 4:15; For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ,
yet have ye not many fathers:
for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

Eph. 2:10; 4:24; For we are his workmanship,
created in Christ Jesus unto good works,
which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

And that ye put on the new man,
which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

I Thess. 1:5; For our gospel came not unto you in word only,
but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost,
and in much assurance;

as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

Titus 3:5-6; Not by works of righteousness which we have done,
but according to his mercy he saved us,
by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

James 1:18; Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth,
that we should be a kind of first fruits of his creatures.

I Peter 1:23; Being born again, not of corruptible seed,
but of incorruptible, by the word of God,
which liveth and abideth forever.

The foregoing scriptures prove without a shadow of a doubt
that The Work of REGENERATION
is wholly a Work of God the Holy Spirit,
through The WORD
which Enables the sinner
to Spiritually REPENT and Hear the Gospel.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.

Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Rom 10:13 For "WHOEVER CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED."

May call translates epikalesētai, an aorist tense middle voice subjunctive mood verb. The subjunctive is a potential mood and so conditional—may call or may not call; if they do call they will be saved. Further, one potentially calls for himself/herself since epikalesētai is also in the middle voice. This shows the participation of the subject in the action. Thus salvation is for the masses of humankind, but they respond to God individually, conditionally—may respond (Lavender NT) Psalms _86:5, Isaiah_55:6-7

Act 2:21 AND IT SHALL COME TO PASS THAT WHOEVER CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED.'

Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
Eph 2:5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
Eph 2:9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

As the above verses show we are saved by a gracious God when we believe in His son. That is why the gospel message is to be proclaimed until He comes so that those who trust in the Son will be saved.

 

[AustinC]

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.

Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Rom 10:13 For "WHOEVER CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED."

May call translates epikalesētai, an aorist tense middle voice subjunctive mood verb. The subjunctive is a potential mood and so conditional—may call or may not call; if they do call they will be saved. Further, one potentially calls for himself/herself since epikalesētai is also in the middle voice. This shows the participation of the subject in the action. Thus salvation is for the masses of humankind, but they respond to God individually, conditionally—may respond (Lavender NT) Psalms _86:5, Isaiah_55:6-7

Act 2:21 AND IT SHALL COME TO PASS THAT WHOEVER CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED.'

Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
Eph 2:5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
Eph 2:9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

As the above verses show we are saved by a gracious God when we believe in His son. That is why the gospel message is to be proclaimed until He comes so that those who trust in the Son will be saved.

We cannot even will not believe until God graciously makes us alive, even while we were dead.
Sliverhair, you will not acknowledge what God tells you in very plain letters.

Instead, you lift up man and proclaim that God must wait upon man at man's beckoning call as though God were the servant of man. Are you so blind as not to see your baseless claim and your attempt to drag God down while you lift man up?

We will never see eye to eye on this vital issue as long as you lift yourself up above the King!

 

[AustinC]

It is obvious that you are reading into the text and you even disagree with other calvinists. Read the text and show us where it says Jeremiah was saved.
Jer 1:5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet to the nations."

Nope. It is obvious that you deny the Supremacy of God in all things and make yourself your own king.

 

[AustinC]

God hasn't told us. But only given hints.
For the start, God first. Genesis 1:1.

Is this the depth of your rational thesis? Come now, you must have something more than this. After all, you have declared all Arminians and Calvinists to be irrational without ever once explaining your own rational for such a claim. Come now, speak up!

 

[37818]

Is this the depth of your rational thesis? Come now, you must have something more than this. After all, you have declared all Arminians and Calvinists to be irrational without ever once explaining your own rational for such a claim. Come now, speak up!

Explain your assertion.
What conditions did God require before the foundation of the world?

You are very unspecific.

God hasn't told us. But only given hints.
For the start, God first. Genesis 1:1.

 

[37818]

You have never given us your systematic theology laid out for all to read. Provide your thesis for us.

So have you written yours yet?

How one knows anything comes before what one knows.

Know so salvation.

Knowing God Himself.

The fall of man. And the cause of man's sinful nature.

The two creations. The now and it's replacement.

 

[37818]

Also @AustinC

Different presuppositions will cause different conclusions.

The human soul. Immortal versus mortal.

What role did God's knowledge of good
and and evil play in mankind's sinful nature? What was written on it [in] this regard?

 

[AustinC]

You are very unspecific.

I cannot be specific since I have not read your rational systematic theology. I am waiting for you to publish it for us.