"Oneness Pentecostals" cult!

[Darron Steele]

I didn't realize that there were oneness Pentecostals who referred to themselves as "Apostolic." I grew up in West Virginia, in an area where oneness Pentecostals were once pretty numerous, and as little as I knew about the Christian faith when I was growing up, I knew from the few oneness people I met in school that I wasn't saved because I hadn't spoken in tongues.

Yes, there are, at least here in Southern Indiana.

I know Apostolic Pentecostals who do not believe in the Trinity, but rather believe that Jesus is God by means of progression Father-->Son-->Holy Ghost. They baptize in Jesus' Name only. They believe in speaking in tongues.

There is one notable thing that has varied from what others have reported here: among those in my experiences -- speaking only of my own observations -- Oneness Apostolic Pentecostals do NOT generally believe salvation is solely to them.

 

[Oasis]

Darron

I do not agree with them on their distinctives, but in my opinion, this discussion would be a lot more meaningful, and more honoring to Christ's standards for our conduct, if what Oneness Apostolic Pentecostals REALLY believed was what was discussed.

Hi Darron,

I agree.

 

[Elk]

A little kindness please

Greetings. I haven't posted in a long while, but via a google search found this topic and read through most of it. I just want people to know, that the Lord quite some time ago had me look down the path of Christian History and see where the Pentecostal movement started. Following the Asuza street revival in the very early 1900's there was a camp meeting where a fellow was very excited one morning and ran around and told the people that gathered that he had a revelation from God. It was Acts 2:38 where Peter said that they should be baptized in the Name of Jesus. Immediately, other people said, no, you need to be baptized according to Matthew 28:19, and right there and then a huge division occurred in the Pentecostal Movement. It was the Assembly of God (Trinity) and the Pentecostal Assemblies of the World (PAW) (Oneness).
Many people may not realize it today but I believe a lot of people have been victims of this argument because both groups went to extremes in certain ways.
Yet, what is so very sad about all this, is one cannot take the Bible and cut and paste it. One must take Matthew 28:19 and Acts 2:38 both; we cannot take one or the other and pick and choose. Yet, this is exactly what happened.

Furthermore, I think a lot of people today protest the Triune God concept because this leaves little room for the Seven Spirits of God mentioned in Revelation or the 44 or so manifestations of God in the O.T.

Even more, if people stopped and thought about it, all of this biting is so very sad because most Christian people who come to boards are looking for acceptance, but also hoping to share truth. I for one think we can read the Bible until we are blue in the face and not get much out of it unless the Lord reveals Truth. We need to trust the Lord for His Truth and seek Him.

In the meantime we can proceed to obey Him and His command is that we love others and even lay down our life if need be.

I hope people will stop bashing the Oneness folks because it truly has been a hard road for many and you would be surprised at what they have discovered in the Word by revelation knowledge. It is a great blessing to those who long to know if there really is just One True God.

Love in Jesus' Name.

 

[Benjamin]

I hope people will stop bashing the Oneness folks because it truly has been a hard road for many and you would be surprised at what they have discovered in the Word by revelation knowledge. It is a great blessing to those who long to know if there really is just One True God.

Love in Jesus' Name.

No, I wouldn't be surprised! I had quite dealing with them a couple years ago. Their "revelations" are extremely twisted dogmatic interpretations from within their frenzied "cosmic" (from another world) conciousness state, while thinking they are impowered to be apostolate prophets. They are some of the most mentally unstable people I have ever met.

 

[nunatak]

Following the Asuza street revival in the very early 1900's there was a camp meeting where a fellow was very excited one morning and ran around and told the people that gathered that he had a revelation from God. It was Acts 2:38 where Peter said that they should be baptized in the Name of Jesus.

Isn't it amazing that hundreds of years of orthodox Christianity ended in a revelation by a "fellow."

Furthermore, I think a lot of people today protest the Triune God concept because this leaves little room for the Seven Spirits of God mentioned in Revelation or the 44 or so manifestations of God in the O.T.

Sounds like you are doing too much thinking. Oneness doctrine denies the Trinity because it states the doctrine of the Trinity equals a belief in three Gods.

Even more, if people stopped and thought about it, all of this biting is so very sad because most Christian people who come to boards are looking for acceptance, but also hoping to share truth.

Thats why I like BB, it is a debate board. Why do any of the other posters have to accept me? I want my ideas to be challenged.

I hope people will stop bashing the Oneness folks because it truly has been a hard road for many and you would be surprised at what they have discovered in the Word by revelation knowledge. It is a great blessing to those who long to know if there really is just One True God.

This is a statement that shows your ignorance. Most Oneness folks are convinced that their doctrine concerning Acts 2:38 and living a godly lifestyle is the only way for salvation. They have not had a discovery by revelation knowledge. Their leaders are blind leaders of the blind. The doctrine of Oneness Pentecostalism is HERESY and should be declared as such by all who have a love for the truth.

 

[Elk]

See the thing is...

The thing is what you are fighting/bashing against are people who believe that the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost is Jesus, and even more...
They believe that there is One God.
This is what you are all fighting and arguing against.

 

[nunatak]

They believe in a works salvation. They do not believe in salvation by grace.

Here are two verses that really apply to oneness pentecostalism:

Rom 10:2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge.
Rom 10:3 For, being ignorant of the righteousness of God, and seeking to establish their own, they did not submit to God's righteousness.

and,

Gal 1:6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel--
Gal 1:7 not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.

There is only one way to be saved, by grace. Since they refused God's grace, they follow Law to work their way into salvation, to merit eternal life. But none merit eternal life, apart from faith in Christ. The works of Law will not and can not save anyone. Thus their entire theology is not only faulty, it is un-Biblical and heresy. Their entire doctrine is built on false interpretations of one or two verses, and they interpret the entirety of Scripture to line up with those interpretations. They are leading millions to perdition. Embrace them as fellow humans. But condemn their false doctrine at every opportunity. Who knows whom God will snatch from the flames of their heresy?

 

[DHK]

The thing is what you are fighting/bashing against are people who believe that the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost is Jesus, and even more...
They believe that there is One God.
This is what you are all fighting and arguing against.

Please do this for me.
Explain to me the way of salvation; how a person can be saved.
But do it without using the Book of Acts. I am sure that any other person on this board can do that. It is a very easy task to do. Can you do it?

 

[Elk]

How to be saved...

First, I want to say above all else, is that Jesus saves.

What I do in this life demonstrates how much I believe.

 

[DHK]

First, I want to say above all else, is that Jesus saves.

What I do in this life demonstrates how much I believe.

Please just answer my question. How would you lead a person to Christ?
Can you please give the plan of salvation to us without using the Book of Acts.
Please just answer this one simple request without skirting the issue as you did in your last post.

 

[Elk]

How to be saved...

How can I lead a person to Christ?

In all sincerity without trying to be a wise crack, the truth is we can't lead anyone to Christ without the Father drawing the person.

What I mean is IF I can talk someone into something, I can someone out of it.

But to begin with we can begin to share as much as we can about the glorious salvation that Jesus offers us...because we can simply state for example, about the O.T. Blood Covenants and how Blood Covenants if broken resulted in the death of the covenant breaker.
Moses and his people made a Blood Covenant with God at the base of the mountain. This Blood Covenant could be called a Law Contract. Moses and the people promised (Book of Numbers) to keep this Blood Covenant/Law Contract with God, but the fact is they were not able to keep it, and neither are we able to keep it. We are sinners who cannot keep the Law perfectly. Thereby, God came to earth to die for us. God in Flesh died for us with His Blood. What we justly deserved fell upon Him.
God in the Flesh came to earth to die for us, in our place.
Also, Jesus made a new covenant, one of mercy and grace.
Those that come to Him come by faith and believe that He died for us.
Those that believe and follow and obey Him become children of God.



I do know why you are asking about Salvation because in Oneness churches there is a major emphasis on Water Baptism.

But years ago I had a thought worth contemplating. If one never gets water baptized, and I am speaking spiritually, when and at what point exactly, really at what point, without baptism in water, have you died and rose again with Christ?
However, I truly have noticed in various churches that I have contemplated, that some churches place "works" ahead of Grace Salvation, which usually or apparently happens when "something" gets really emphasized as all important. Funny how we people are, then it becomes the all important issue and focus. This sadly becomes a distortion and people see it and get confused.

I heard about a church motto that has got to be the very best one that I have ever heard about and it was something like this...That all who come may have a personal experience/relationship with Jesus.

You know what? When I was a teenager I got saved at a Baptist meeting and it was that very day that "then" I was no longer allowed to go to church while I was at home. The Lord had a plan for me and because of all this, I know that I have been on a special road that perhaps not too many people have experienced. And I say all that to say, every single person has a different interpretation about things, but I for one believe that only God reveals Truth.

And the Lord ever shows me that He simply wants me to Trust Him and no one else.

How to be saved...good question...I am not sure what verse you want me to quote, and if you want to quote it, by all means please do so, but I want you to know I would like to see that special Bible because the Bible I have starts at Genesis and goes to the end of Revelation. I must take it all.

I have to take in all that Jesus said in order to receive my salvation. There are statements that talk about those not entering in and that we must exceed the Pharisees and that we must Obey Jesus.
And even consider where Jesus said that the command He gives us in John 17 to love others and lay down our life!!!!

The Bible talks about confessing our sins.
The road is narrow.
We need to pick up our cross daily.
Our confession and faith is essential.
There are a host of things that we actually are required to do.

But we can do nothing much without the Lord inside of us. We are like walking dead men without the Lord making us His Children who are blessed with eternal life.
Thereby, if we are truly His, His child, I believe that no one is able to change that. Nope. We are saved or we are not.

 

[DHK]

How can I lead a person to Christ?

In all sincerity without trying to be a wise crack, the truth is we can't lead anyone to Christ without the Father drawing the person.

What I mean is IF I can talk someone into something, I can someone out of it.

But to begin with we can begin to share as much as we can about the glorious salvation that Jesus offers us...because we can simply state for example, about the O.T. Blood Covenants and how Blood Covenants if broken resulted in the death of the covenant breaker.
Moses and his people made a Blood Covenant with God at the base of the mountain. This Blood Covenant could be called a Law Contract. Moses and the people promised (Book of Numbers) to keep this Blood Covenant/Law Contract with God, but the fact is they were not able to keep it, and neither are we able to keep it. We are sinners who cannot keep the Law perfectly. Thereby, God came to earth to die for us. God in Flesh died for us with His Blood. What we justly deserved fell upon Him.
God in the Flesh came to earth to die for us, in our place.
Also, Jesus made a new covenant, one of mercy and grace.
Those that come to Him come by faith and believe that He died for us.
Those that believe and follow and obey Him become children of God.



I do know why you are asking about Salvation because in Oneness churches there is a major emphasis on Water Baptism.

But years ago I had a thought worth contemplating. If one never gets water baptized, and I am speaking spiritually, when and at what point exactly, really at what point, without baptism in water, have you died and rose again with Christ?
However, I truly have noticed in various churches that I have contemplated, that some churches place "works" ahead of Grace Salvation, which usually or apparently happens when "something" gets really emphasized as all important. Funny how we people are, then it becomes the all important issue and focus. This sadly becomes a distortion and people see it and get confused.

I heard about a church motto that has got to be the very best one that I have ever heard about and it was something like this...That all who come may have a personal experience/relationship with Jesus.

You know what? When I was a teenager I got saved at a Baptist meeting and it was that very day that "then" I was no longer allowed to go to church while I was at home. The Lord had a plan for me and because of all this, I know that I have been on a special road that perhaps not too many people have experienced. And I say all that to say, every single person has a different interpretation about things, but I for one believe that only God reveals Truth.

And the Lord ever shows me that He simply wants me to Trust Him and no one else.

How to be saved...good question...I am not sure what verse you want me to quote, and if you want to quote it, by all means please do so, but I want you to know I would like to see that special Bible because the Bible I have starts at Genesis and goes to the end of Revelation. I must take it all.

I have to take in all that Jesus said in order to receive my salvation. There are statements that talk about those not entering in and that we must exceed the Pharisees and that we must Obey Jesus.
And even consider where Jesus said that the command He gives us in John 17 to love others and lay down our life!!!!

The Bible talks about confessing our sins.
The road is narrow.
We need to pick up our cross daily.
Our confession and faith is essential.
There are a host of things that we actually are required to do.

But we can do nothing much without the Lord inside of us. We are like walking dead men without the Lord making us His Children who are blessed with eternal life.
Thereby, if we are truly His, His child, I believe that no one is able to change that. Nope. We are saved or we are not.

Look how much you are able to post and avoid a simple question. The gospel is a very simple message. Why can't you simply explain the gospel message--how to be saved. I am not looking for a "single" verse, but a simple explanation of how to be saved. I am not looking for a theological dissertation on the whole Bible, as you suggest. One doesn't have to use the entire Bible. Don't be ridiculous. What is the gospel. What does one need to do in order to be saved.
Can you explain this to me. Can you explain this to me without using the book of Acts. That is a simple request. Why do you keep on avoiding it?

 

[Elk]

Salvation

Please...you tell me.
Thank you so kindly.

 

[Elk]

Dear DHK

Hello. I am sincerely asking you to tell me, for I don't know exactly what you want me to say.
It has been quite a while since I posted on this forum, and over the years I have come across places where I was met with a lot of negativity only to find that the person I was addressing was not standing on anything at all only dismissing everything, all.
What is it exactly that you want to say about salvation?
I look forward toward hearing your stand, completely and thoroughly although you are inferring that it is quite simple...so I ask, what do you stand on regarding salvation?
Please be specific so we can all see clearly.
Thank you so very kindly.

 

[DHK]

Hello. I am sincerely asking you to tell me, for I don't know exactly what you want me to say.
It has been quite a while since I posted on this forum, and over the years I have come across places where I was met with a lot of negativity only to find that the person I was addressing was not standing on anything at all only dismissing everything, all.
What is it exactly that you want to say about salvation?
I look forward toward hearing your stand, completely and thoroughly although you are inferring that it is quite simple...so I ask, what do you stand on regarding salvation?
Please be specific so we can all see clearly.
Thank you so very kindly.

Elk.
Are you saved or lost?
If you are saved, how did you become saved? Please share your testimony.
If you are able to do so, how would you lead some one else to Christ?
(that is, explain the gospel message to them, and if you can, can you do so without the Book of Acts?)

Is it so difficult to come up with some straight forward answers?
This is a debate forum where we interact with each other, not try to avoid each others' questions.

 

[Marcia]

As far as I can tell, Oneness doesn't deny the Trinity, they merely go a different way to get to the Trinity.

Yes, they do deny the Trinity. In fact, they denounce it as a false teaching.

Think about what it means if modalism is true:
1. Jesus was talking to himself when he prayed to the Father
2. Jesus was lying whenever he said "My Father"
3. Jesus was lying when he said the Father sent him
4. Jesus was lying when he said "another helper" will come to you

That's just a start. Modalism is a complete attack on God's word and God's nature.

 

[DHK]

Marcia, everything before Elk's post is over a year old. Elk resurrected an old thread that was being debated when the Oneness Pentecostals were still here.

 

[Marcia]

Marcia, everything before Elk's post is over a year old. Elk resurrected an old thread that was being debated when the Oneness Pentecostals were still here.

Okay, thanks, DHK! Didn't notice the dates!

I wonder if Elk is Oneness?

 

[DHK]

Okay, thanks, DHK! Didn't notice the dates!

I wonder if Elk is Oneness?

He's very reluctant to give a testimony of salvation.

 

[Benjamin]

I wonder if Elk is Oneness?

It is very apparent to me that he has been exposed to their doctrines, but it is seems apparent that he is searching for the truth.

Elk, Oneness is a very damaging and false doctrine. DHK's telling you that it is a doctrine of works is one of the best ways to defend against it and of proving it is false (another gospel.)

As Marcia said they call Trinitarianism a false doctrine; I will add to that that they will tell you that you must be saved by the "blood" AND the "water" in the "NAME" of Jesus, recieve the gifts of tongues and prophesy as a sign, and it goes on and on. But Elk, how is a person saved?