Our role in evangelism

[Silverhair]

It is quite Biblical.

John 6:37-47.
John 10:26-29.
Ephesians 1:3-14.
Ephesians 2:1-10.
Romans 8:28-30.
Romans 9:6-24.

John Calvin and what he may have or may not have taught has absolutely nothing to do with what the Scriptures say.

God condemns billions to Hell and the Lake of Fire because:

Romans 3:10-11.
Romans 3:23.
Ecclesiastes 7:20.

We are all willful sinners who love sin and hate God, in our hearts ( Romans 1:18-32, Romans 3:10-18, John 3:19-20, etc ).

Unless He grants us the miracle of the new birth, opens our "eyes" and "ears" to the truth of His words, and has mercy on a person,
that person will indeed be condemned, justly, for their sins.


Good evening to you, and I wish you well.

What the scriptures say is that man has to freely trust in Christ Jesus before they are saved. That is the point that you always run past.
Does man sin, YES does man have the God given ability to trust in Christ Jesus and be saved, YES.

You even say man has to be born again before they can believe. That is not biblical. You have stumbled over the same block that many calvinists do. You want people saved prior to them having faith.

Man hears the gospel message and trusts that message then God saves him. Free will
Joh 6:45 ... Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.
Joh 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.
Joh 10:25 Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe;
Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith;

Notice some believe and some do not, but it is their free will choice.

Now lets look at Rom 8:28-30
to those who are called G2822 according to His purpose
Thayer Definition:
1) called, invited (to a banquet)
1a) invited (by God in the proclamation of the Gospel) to obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom through Christ

Now that is quite clear wouldn't you say, invited not dragged. Not everyone accepts the invitation do they.
And being that God is omniscient He foreknows all that will freely trust in Him and those that do will be conformed to the image of His son, now that is something we can all look forward to.
these whom He predestined, He also called G2564; and these whom He called G2564, He also justified
Thayer Definition:
1) to call
1a) to call aloud, utter in a loud voice
1b) to invite

 

[Silverhair]

Those who do not understand the teaching of Scripture appeal to philosophy.
Calvinism comes.from the Bible, correctly understood.

Calvinism is philosophy.

 

[Silverhair]

Those who do not understand the teaching of Scripture appeal to philosophy.
Calvinism comes.from the Bible, correctly understood.
You might need to read it freshly

It is because I do understand the teaching of your calvinist philosophy that I reject it. You sound like the JW's and Mormon's, they say the same thing you just said their theology "comes.from the Bible, correctly understood". Your putting yourself in the company of cults.

 

[Silverhair]

No..it does not say they are chosen.
The elect are chosen, the others are past by.
If they want to believe they can.

How can those that are, as you say, passed by believe if your version of god does not give them the ability to believe. Remember your the ones that say all those that will be saved were pick out prior to creation. So if they were not pick they can't believe so in effect God has condemned them prior to them even sinning. That is quite the theology you have there.

 

[Silverhair]

No...the reality is you and your friend offer philosophy and not scripture.
I am not going to respond to such ramblings.

We give sound rebuttal to your comments and you do not like it. Your theology is like a leaky boat, the more you bail the more water keeps coming in.

 

[JonC]

No...the reality is you and your friend offer philosophy and not scripture.
I am not going to respond to such ramblings.

This is from another thread but it shows exactly who thinks Scripture reads "like a quote right out of the new age movement".

1 Corinthians 2:12–13 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God, which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.

Spiritual truth is the combination of spiritual words with spiritual thoughts.

Honestly, Jon, your first sentence reads like a quote right out of the new age movement. It's a bunch of words with absolutely no substance. I would jettison such an argument as it defines nothing and leaves everything up to mere feelings.

Yes. new age thought.Well put.

Scripture is not a buffet where you can pick and choose which verses (or parts of verses) to believe if they support your philosophy. There is a reason those words sounded to you like "new age thought". You most likely did not realize those were God's Words because they don't fit your philosophy.

I encourage you to read Scripture for what it says (what is written) rather than just picking out bits and pieces that you believe supports your opinions.

 

[Iconoclast]

How can those that are, as you say, passed by believe if your version of god does not give them the ability to believe. Remember your the ones that say all those that will be saved were pick out prior to creation. So if they were not pick they can't believe so in effect God has condemned them prior to them even sinning. That is quite the theology you have there.

Who said God has to save them,?

 

[Iconoclast]

This is from another thread but it shows exactly who thinks Scripture reads "like a quote right out of the new age movement".

1 Corinthians 2:12–13 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God, which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.

No he identified your words as new age thought.not scripture, but true to your M.O. you twist it lol

 

[Iconoclast]

We give sound rebuttal to your comments and you do not like it. Your theology is like a leaky boat, the more you bail the more water keeps coming in.

You have got nothing.No scripture,just bluster.
Try some scripture..jn 6.37-44...explain it verse by verse

 

[JonC]

No he identified your words as new age thought.not scripture, but true to your M.O. you twist it lol

Yes, I typed those words. He highlighted those words (Scripture) and said that sentence (from 1 Corinthians) read like a quote from the New Age Movement.

And you agreed, saying that Spiritual truth being a combination of spiritual words and spiritual thoughts was new age thought.

We can all see the quotes.

Here is a link:

Spiritual Truth and Doctrine

Post # 23 and # 28

 

[Iconoclast]

This is from another thread but it shows exactly who thinks Scripture reads "like a quote right out of the new age movement".

1 Corinthians 2:12–13 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God, which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.




Scripture is not a buffet where you can pick and choose which verses (or parts of verses) to believe if they support your philosophy. There is a reason those words sounded to you like "new age thought". You most likely did not realize those were God's Words because they don't fit your philosophy.

I encourage you to read Scripture for what it says (what is written) rather than just picking out bits and pieces that you believe supports your opinions.

You denied 1 cor2:14 just a few months ago.
Glad you are trying to use it now

 

[JonC]

You denied 1 cor2:14 just a few months ago.
Glad you are trying to use it now

Post where I denied 1 Corinthians 2:14.

Other than trying to put us on equal ground by saying we both reject Scripture, I don't see your point.

But let's look at the post you claim.

Quote me denying 1 Corinthians 2:14.

You can't because I haven't. This is just another false accusation.

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

I absolutely believe this. This is what I have been saying over several threads. Spiritual truth is known ONLY through the Spirit. spiritual words combined with spiritual thoughts, given by God.

We must be born of the Spirit to understand things of the Spirit.

To the world "spiritual words combined with spiritual thoughts" is foolishness (nothing but new age thought, religious mumbo jumbo).


Anyway, I look forward to reading your attempts to back out of providing the post (oh....he must have edited it ....or deleted it .....I copied and pasted it somewhere....etc.).

 

[Iconoclast]

Post where I denied 1 Corinthians 2:14.

Other than trying to put us on equal ground by saying we both reject Scripture, I don't see your point.

But let's look at the post you claim.

Quote me denying 1 Corinthians 2:14.

You can't because I haven't. This is just another false accusation.

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

I absolutely believe this. This is what I have been saying over several threads. Spiritual truth is known ONLY through the Spirit. spiritual words combined with spiritual thoughts, given by God.

We must be born of the Spirit to understand things of the Spirit.

To the world "spiritual words combined with spiritual thoughts" is foolishness (nothing but new age thought, religious mumbo jumbo).


Anyway, I look forward to reading your attempts to back out of providing the post (oh....he must have edited it ....or deleted it .....I copied and pasted it somewhere....etc.).

SOMEONE DISABLED THE PREVIOUS POSTS FEATURE, MOST LIKEY IT WAS YOU AS YOU TRIED TO CONCEAL YOUR POSTS BEFORE.
i AM NOT COMBING THROUGH THREADS LOOKING FOR IT.

i ASKED YOU WHICH POST YOU SAID THE WORD ELECT WAS ONLY USED FOR PEOPLE THAT WERE ALREADY SAVED?
YOU DID NOT ANSWER,BUT NOW WANT EVERYONE TO JUMP THROUGH HOOPS WHEN YOU ASK A QUESTION?

 

[Iconoclast]

Post where I denied 1 Corinthians 2:14.

Other than trying to put us on equal ground by saying we both reject Scripture, I don't see your point.

But let's look at the post you claim.

Quote me denying 1 Corinthians 2:14.

You can't because I haven't. This is just another false accusation.

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

I absolutely believe this. This is what I have been saying over several threads. Spiritual truth is known ONLY through the Spirit. spiritual words combined with spiritual thoughts, given by God.

We must be born of the Spirit to understand things of the Spirit.

To the world "spiritual words combined with spiritual thoughts" is foolishness (nothing but new age thought, religious mumbo jumbo).


Anyway, I look forward to reading your attempts to back out of providing the post (oh....he must have edited it ....or deleted it .....I copied and pasted it somewhere....etc.).

Anyway, I look forward to reading your attempts to back out of providing the post (oh....he must have edited it ....or deleted it .....I copied and pasted it somewhere....etc.).

You have done all these things...is this a confession?
Confession is good for the soul. Go ahead,cleanse you conscience

 

[Silverhair]

No..it does not say they are chosen.
The elect are chosen, the others are past by.
If they want to believe they can.

Care to try and explain that view. Remember your god has to choose those that are saved so those that are "pasted over" really can not be saved can they. You are just ignoring the obvious flaw in your theology.

 

[Iconoclast]

Care to try and explain that view. Remember your god has to choose those that are saved so those that are "pasted over" really can not be saved can they. You are just ignoring the obvious flaw in your theology.

Sure they can...they just have to seek God savingly. Tell me when any do.

 

[Silverhair]

Who said God has to save them,?

You really do give dumb answers by times.

Who said God has to save them, not me. What I said was that they could not be saved because as you put it they were passed over. It is your theology that keeps saying that so why do you not own it. Your theology makes God disingenuous. He makes an offer knowing that they can not accept because He does not let them and then holds them responsible for not accepting the offer. That is calvinism in a nut shell.

 

[Silverhair]

You have got nothing.No scripture,just bluster.
Try some scripture..jn 6.37-44...explain it verse by verse

All that the father gives to the son are those that have beheld the son and believed in Him and those that believe will have eternal life. That is called free will. But as per usual you leave out what you do not like.
Joh 6:36 "But I said to you that you have seen Me, and yet do not believe.
Not every one that sees the son will believe. Some do and some reject Him.
Joh 6:45 "It is written in the prophets, 'AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.
Note it is still a choice, those that hear and learn will come to the son but those that do not will not. Free will again.

 

[Iconoclast]

You really do give dumb answers by times.

Who said God has to save them, not me. What I said was that they could not be saved because as you put it they were passed over. It is your theology that keeps saying that so why do you not own it. Your theology makes God disingenuous. He makes an offer knowing that they can not accept because He does not let them and then holds them responsible for not accepting the offer. That is calvinism in a nut shell.

i asked you to explain jn6.37-44

 

[Iconoclast]

All that the father gives to the son are those that have beheld the son and believed in Him and those that believe will have eternal life. That is called free will. But as per usual you leave out what you do not like.
Joh 6:36 "But I said to you that you have seen Me, and yet do not believe.
Not every one that sees the son will believe. Some do and some reject Him.
Joh 6:45 "It is written in the prophets, 'AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.
Note it is still a choice, those that hear and learn will come to the son but those that do not will not. Free will again.

where does it say that?
it says that no where in the text.