Yes, a day is as a thousand years to God but that doesn't mean we read "day" in Scripture and decide that it means 1000 years. In Hebrew, if "day" is paired with an ordinal number (first, second, third, etc.), it is a literal day. An ordinal number and "day" never means a longer period of time. In addition, "evening and morning" do not match with 1000 years but with a literal day.
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Part 3, Earth Millions of Years Old?
- Thread starter Marcia
- Start date
Yes, a day is as a thousand years to God but that doesn't mean we read "day" in Scripture and decide that it means 1000 years. In Hebrew, if "day" is paired with an ordinal number (first, second, third, etc.), it is a literal day. An ordinal number and "day" never means a longer period of time. In addition, "evening and morning" do not match with 1000 years but with a literal day.
People keep saying "what the science shows". It is NOT what science shows!
"Science" says that certain radioactive elements that are decaying right now at a steady rate, are decayed into their daughter elements to a certain percentage. That is all that "Science" says.
Atheistic naturalists, INTERPRET that data, to mean that the earth is billions of years old. Creationists INTERPRET that data, and say God created a mature creation.
These tests are NOT accurate! Scientists acknowledge that if two different types of radioactive dating are used on the same sample, they yield VASTLY different results! One might yield a date of 2-6 million years, another might yield a date of 10-20 million, and a third type might yield 100 million: ALL ON THE SAME SAMPLE. Scientists "choose" which type they will use (each type yields typically younger or older dates) based on the geologic layer the specimen s found in.
Kind of like a self fulfilling prophecy.
Trust God, or trust men. Don't sit on the fence.
Marcia
Active Member
The context of this statement is totally different from the context of Genesis 1. In the context you refer to, it is talking about how time does not mean anything to God - He does things in his way, not according to our time. It is not saying that a day can be the same as 1,000 years anywhere we read the word "day."
Sorry, but that phrase - a day IS LIKE (or in other translations AS A)a thousand years - is nothing more than a comparision of time, NOT a declaration of time.
In other words- when I state that cut glass IS LIKE a diamond, I am not saying the cut glass and diamond are the same but am comparing something about them. The issue with the phrase, a day is like a thousand years, is doing nothing more that comparing time in relation to God. Thus the phrase in laymens terms states - time is relitive to God or better time has little meaning in relation to God. Notice here that a thousand years is not only like 'yesterday' to God but the psalmist states it is even like a watch in the night (a couple of hours).
To God a day is like a thousand years but ALSO a thousand years is like a day.
Thus it's meaning is simply Time with God is meaningless because God is in the past, present, and future all at once. He is omnipresent and thus all time before God is present. God is not compelled by time to act but acts within time according to His purposed plan(s).
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
And the context in Genesis 1 is that God is revealing a pattern in a way that you understand. Not being specific as to the number of days in which he actually created universe since God would have to consously block out the light for 12 hours of the 24 hour day. and create darkness but it doesn't say God created the darkeness but the light and since there werent heavenly bodies spining around giving and blocking light it seems unreasonable. God created light and darkness is the absence of light but once light is created its not uncreated and since its not confined at this time to stars etc... then its everywhere. (the nature of light. Just what it does.) So it seems silly to think that God created light and turned it off like a light bulb (creating and uncreating) until the stars are in order. No just like other places in the bible God uses a popular method of communicating information in such a way as we can understand what he means. God is God no other. He established the universe and created man. Everything that is; is created by God and none are divine in and of themselves. Genesis 1 outlines creation as I've mentioned before.
Genesis 1:3 "And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4And God saw that the light was good. And God separated the light from the darkness. 5God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day."
Once again, how can "evening and morning" be an age? How can "first day" (an ordinal number with day ALWAYS means a 24 hour day) be an age?
I'll believe God over man's foolishness.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
As usual you are reading something into Genesis 1 that is not there and, furthermore, you are limiting GOD.
Simply read what Scripture states:
Genesis 1:1-5
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
We read:
1. GOD created and there was darkness.
2. GOD created light.
3. GOD divided the light from the darkness.
Now Scripture does not tell us how GOD divided the light and the darkness. You say: "So it seems silly to think that God created light and turned it off like a light bulb (creating and uncreating) until the stars are in order."
Nothing is said about "uncreating" light. It is beyond presumptuous of you to limit GOD in what HE can and cannot do.
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
Au Contraire OR I think it is you who limits God. (as I've mentioned before) The bible does not state that darkness was created. It seems to already be there. Is darkness the state of the universe before creation void and formless? I don't buy into Gap theory either. God Seperates the two. Yes. I believe this. How? By establishing physics and its laws which are governed by bodies in motion. Which, follows the consept of the outline I've previously mentioned.
Verse 1 says "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth."
That's pretty clear Who created what.
Verse 2 says "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters"
The earth was without form and dark. That's how God created it. Was darkness before creation? I don't think so because god created IN THE BEGINNING.
Of course there is a problem with the six day creation. That is that God created the earth and it was not perfect. God had to make it perfect after He created it. No where else does God create anything that isn't perfect but according to the six day theory God must have had a problem which is the earth wasn't perfect. It was with out form and the waters covered the deep. I'm sorry there is something missing here. The God I worship doesn't make things that aren't perfect. Adam and Eve were perfect all the rest of creation was perfect and God was pleased with His work. It just doesn't make any sense that the earth was without form and void. He spoke things into existance When He created man He formed him out of clay and breathed life in to him but not so with the earth He spoke it in to existance and then had to remodel it.
I believe He created the Earth perfectly but for a reason we are not aware of had to destroy it with a flood.
Why should we think that God is limited just to the creation of all our relatives and us. He could have done this a billion times in the past. God is eternal and as much as He wants the love of men. It simply doesn't make any sense that he would have waited an eternity to create us.
MB
Marcia
Active Member
Ann and OR answered you the way I would have.
It is so clear and direct - the 6 days of creation are there. It's not an outline - it's a narrative account.
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
You're making an assumption that God created darkness. The bible doesn't specify that God created the Darkness. It was the state before he actually created the earth. I think the outline theory is more accurate because it obviously shows that God establishes non formed matter before his work of creating the earth unless of course you buy into Gap theory which MB does. The verses if taken literally which you advocate indicates that in the begining God created the heavens and the earth. At this point you run into difficulty and must either have a gap view and that something happened or state that the point of the following verses emphasise the first which makes the point God created the Heavens and the earth. Follow up with how he did it. This literary style fits better with my outline theory because it makes perfect sense.
I. God makes Heaven and Earth
A. God organizes matter (void and formless(
B. God proceeds creating the universe in the following manner
1. God creates light
2. God seperates the light and the Darkness the first day
a) day 3 specifies organization into the heavenly bodies (stars, moon, sun)b) day 2 sepcifies particular use for determination of dates and events.
Marcia
Active Member
It doesn't say the earth wasn't perfect!
It was without form because God was shaping it. It's a way of saying God formed the earth - it did not form itself and it was not formed by natural causes and it was not formed by someone else. It's just a way of saying God made the earth. Verse 1 is the overrall view and then verse 2 starts in on the more specific view.
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
All stories or parables told to children are narratives. Simple plain. A parable does not deminish the truth to be put across but is not to be taken literally. All Naratives are internally consistant or should be. You having studing literature should know that.
Marcia
Active Member
But this is not a parable nor is it for children. This was given to Moses for the nation God had formed - Israel - and for us, the Christians.
Yes, having studied Lit I can tell you this is not a parable. It does not have anything in it that indicates it's a parable. Actually, I can't think of any parables in the OT offhand. And when Jesus told parables, the text tells us it is a parable or the form tells us, "The Kingdom of God is like...." and other ways. Also, Jesus was prophesied to speak in parables.
Jarthur001
Active Member
Not really "thinking"...
God is the ontological other. Basically there is God and then there is everything else.
John 1:3
All things....ALL things.....ALL THINGS.....ALL THINGS came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing ......NOTHING..not one thing...came into being that has come into being.
In other words...if it is not God, and it exist, that means it came from God.
As this nowhere discussion lost me on its first thread, I haven't been following the second and third. But I did catch this by the New Posts click, that you don't know of any parable in the OT. Well there are plenty in the Psalms. Do the sun and moon and stars and waters all literally praise Him? I ain't heard them. Is God really a rock or a shield? Did David literally make his bed in sheol and find God there? As for others, when Jacob is giving his sons the blessings, he says Issachar is a strong donkey, Dan is a serpent, Naphtali is a loose doe, et al. And finally, the prophecies; particularly the visions or dreams in prophecy... Joseph's 12 stars and the sun and moon bowing down to him; Daniel's goat galloping out of the east to conquer-- which presents another problem for those who think if prophecy is of true events it is literally true-- a goat really can gallop out of the east, but Daniel was told it meant a conqueror. Last of all in the OT, whether the true literal Elijah was/is going to come before the Messiah... and another literalism problem in that Jesus said John the Baptist "is" Elijah, while JB himself answered that question by saying he is not.
Well, I am procrastinating doing my taxes and writing a check, and this is one way to fill that time.
Well, I am procrastinating doing my taxes and writing a check, and this is one way to fill that time.
Marcia
Active Member
These are not parables. They are metaphors and figures of speech.
These are not parables.
Who created darkness? As Jarthur said, all things were created by Him. So who would have created it? It tells us that AFTER God created the heavens and the earth that there was darkness, deep and waters. It does not state at all that these were existent before God created the heavens and the earth. You can't go much further back than the "beginning".
I do not believe in the gap theory at all - nor does the Scripture support it.
As Marcia stated, there is no internal or external evidence that this is a parable. None whatsoever.
Alright, then how about this:
"Once the trees went forth to anoint a king over them, and they said to the olive tree, 'Reign over us!'
"But the olive tree said to them, 'Shall I leave my fatness with which God and men are honored, and go to wave over the trees?'
"Then the trees said to the fig tree, 'You come, reign over us!'
"But the fig tree said to them, 'Shall I leave my sweetness and my good fruit, and go to wave over the trees?'
"Then the trees said to the vine, 'You come, reign over us!'
"But the vine said to them, 'Shall I leave my new wine, which cheers God and men, and go to wave over the trees?'
"Finally all the trees said to the bramble, 'You come, reign over us!' "The bramble said to the trees, 'If in truth you are anointing me as king over you, come and take refuge in my shade; but if not, may fire come out from the bramble and consume the cedars of Lebanon. [Judges 9:8-15]