Predestined to what?

[Brother Bob]

By Grace are ye saved through faith and not of yourself but it is a gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast. But, faith without works is dead and if a man don't repent of his sins he will die and go to a devils hell or at least that is what Jesus said.
If you die in your sins, where I am you cannot come.
Every how death finds you so shall the resurrection receive you.

The Scripture I quoted earlier about the woman with the issue of blood and made her way to Christ to touch His garment and then received virtue is exactly how I believe it. The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom and departing from evil is understanding. So many scriptures, so many that men thinks we are all a peice of meat but God made us after His likeness and His image and He gave us the choice, we didn't do it. God gave it to us and gave us the freewill to use it.

 

[StefanM]

I'm still confused after your most recent posts.

Do you believe election is individual or not?

 

[Brother Bob]

I believe in an election of the Apostles and a few more to carry out the plan of Salvation. I also believe when we are born again then we become the "elect" individual according to whether we believe and repent or not for He said I have chosen you out of the world. Also He broke down the middle wall of partition so the Jews and Gentiles became as one people us being a Jew inwardly. He elected to choose us out of the world because of belief. If you will read Eph it is talking about Israel which was God's chosen people until they began to worship Idol Gods and offer up the lame and sick and became an abomination To God so He put her away but there still was a remnant that kept all of his Statues, ordaninces and Commandments and were found perfect before God. When John the Baptist came baptizing, he came to make ready a "prepared" people. Jesus came to Israel but they received Him not, but as many as did He gave them the power to become the sons of God. Now if they were predestinated they would of already been children of God.
Salvation is an individual thing between every man and God and He did not leave any out that would believe in Him.

 

[StefanM]

Irony of Ironies...discussing on this thread has made me lean against my previously stated positions. Funny, eh?

 

[Mishelly]

All are Predestined to beleive in Christ and to be saved but free will is not a choice and some choose wrong. All are loved by God and some hurt God by their disbelieving.

"some Baptist believe that certain individuals are predestined by God to believe in Christ and thus be saved when the Bible never says this"

Those who say certain people are Predestined to beleive and Christ and to be saved are talking with the belief that certain indviduals choose to believe the Truth.

I do not believe certain people are Predestined, I believe God wants all to be Predestined? Is that not why Christ Died for our sins?

 

[Brother Bob]

Irony of Ironies...discussing on this thread has made me lean against my previously stated positions. Funny, eh?

I beginning to believe you never leaned any other way, funny? No sorry. I think God loved us all and no one is going to tell me that God loves you and sends you to hell to get Glory out of you without you ever having a chance, terrible to believe that you have to ignore all of the Gospels.:tear:

 

[pituophis]

Mishelly said ""some Baptist believe that certain individuals are predestined by God to believe in Christ and thus be saved when the Bible never says this"

Chack out Acts 13:48 ... "all who were appointed (ordained) for eternal life believed" notice the sequence. Eph 2:8-9 lets us know that Faith, Grace & Salvation are all a free GIFT from God. God is the one who gives us the faith & belief.

Brother Bob,
You say that you like to check back with what Jesus taught on a topic first. Look at what Christ taught in John 6 (i.e. v.29,37-44,60-66) John 5:21. John 10 !!!!

 

[Brother Bob]

You mean like the following? The rest are the same for He was talking about those who wanted to hold to the Law.

John, chapter 5
21: For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
22: For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
23: That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

 

[StefanM]

I beginning to believe you never leaned any other way, funny? No sorry. I think God loved us all and no one is going to tell me that God loves you and sends you to hell to get Glory out of you without you ever having a chance, terrible to believe that you have to ignore all of the Gospels.:tear:

I don't follow. I meant funny in the sense of odd.

 

[Mishelly]

"I think God loved us all and no one is going to tell me that God loves you and sends you to hell to get Glory out of you without you ever having a chance"

I do not believe God takes any Glory out of sending anyone to hell and for those who never had a chance, they will be judged in fairness as God is Just

God does not want anyone to perish and that is why He is giving all time to Repent, so that none should perish but all to Live. He knows that there are evil doers and not all will Live, it saddens Him. Only through Jesus will we enter and if our name is not in the Book of Life then they will be cast out. Even the faithful will be deceived in the end times, that is were free will comes in and I pray people will live in the Word and know the Truth and remain one in God though the Son

By the way, thank you for making me think and learn and to grow in the Word, I am here to learn and to have my knowledge enhanced raying:

 

[4His_glory]

I do not believe God takes any Glory out of sending anyone to hell and for those who never had a chance,

God is glorified in everything He does or He wouldn't be God. God's justest, holiness, and righteousness are all maginfied in His condemnation of sinners. So yes, God is glorified in sending sinners to hell.

they will be judged in fairness

What about those who have never heard the Gospel nor will never hear? Is God "fair" in sending them to hell? God's judgement has nothing to do with fairness because He is beyond fairness.

What I see here in this thread is that some are making God human. He is God and what He does is perfect and oft times beyond our comprehension, but we can rest assured that since God's chief concern to be glorified, all He does is just for He will never do anything that does not bring Him glory.

By the way, thank you for making me think and learn and to grow in the Word, I am here to learn and to have my knowledge enhanced

That is good, keep an open mind.

 

[4His_glory]

All are Predestined to beleive in Christ and to be saved but free will is not a choice and some choose wrong.

Then why aren't all saved? If God says somthing will take place then it must take place, or God is a weak God.

 

[Mishelly]

"This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth"
(1 Tim. 2:3-4).
"The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance" (2 Pet. 3:9).
"For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone who dies," declares the Lord God. "Therefore, repent and live," (Ezekiel 18:32).
"The Lord has made everything for its own purpose, even the wicked for the day of evil," (Prov. 16:4).
"So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires," (Rom. 9:18).
"What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? 23And He did so in order that He might make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles" (Rom. 9:22-24).

 

[4His_glory]

This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth"
(1 Tim. 2:3-4).

Great verse. God does desire all men to be saved, but He does not will that all men are saved are else all would be saved because God's will can not be thwarted. In other words desire is not the same as will.

"The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance" (2 Pet. 3:9).

Another great verse, but lets keep it in context. Notice to whom God promises none will perish- "you", believers. God is not willing that believers will perish in the judgement of unglodly men.

I need to run, so I can't speak to your other quotes today, perhaps latter.
God bless and have a great day.

 

[Brother Bob]

That don't make no sense at all that He would be talking to the believers. They are the ones saved already. He has to be talking so as to include all.

 

[Mishelly]

That don't make no sense at all that He would be talking to the believers. They are the ones saved already. He has to be talking so as to include all.

So then, you are saying that God says one thing but means another?

I do not believe He wants anyone to perish but if you go on to read the rest of the text then you will read

"The Lord has made everything for its own purpose, even the wicked for the day of evil," (Prov. 16:4).
"So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires," (Rom. 9:18).

So even though He wants no one to perish He knows some will, Romans "23And He did so in order that He might make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory"

 

[Revmitchell]

Election and predestination are spoken of clearly in scripture. No one argues against it. But it does seem to get defined differently.

This debate seems to boil down to one thing. Who gets the credit?

To say that to have to choose to come to God means that you the must get the credit is false. To say that if you get to choose to come to God it removes Gods soveriegnty is false.

What it boils down to is this. He who has the Power gets the credit.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name. John 1:12

Received came first, believe always precedes salvation.

Just becuase we believe first does not mean we get the credit for the salvation. Nor does it take away from Gods soveriegnty. God is soveriegn in the midst of our choice. God can provide us free will and still be soveriegn. He is just that powerful!:thumbs:

 

[Mishelly]

Election and predestination are spoken of clearly in scripture. No one argues against it. But it does seem to get defined differently.

This debate seems to boil down to one thing. Who gets the credit?

To say that to have to choose to come to God means that you the must get the credit is false. To say that if you get to choose to come to God it removes Gods soveriegnty is false.

What it boils down to is this. He who has the Power gets the credit.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name. John 1:12

Received came first, believe always precedes salvation.

Just becuase we believe first does not mean we get the credit for the salvation. Nor does it take away from Gods soveriegnty. God is soveriegn in the midst of our choice. God can provide us free will and still be soveriegn. He is just that powerful!:thumbs:

Thank you :applause: -This is why I am liking the BB - learning to speak what I understand to be said, What I want to say does not come out with the way I intend for it . Learning through Fellowship raying: Growing with God

 

[Skandelon]

I am an adopted son of God now, I am being conformed to Christ's image everyday! These are not future events.

Then you need to explain Paul's words when he wrote, " Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body."

What is Paul "eagerly waiting" for? If it is "now," as you state it is then why is he so eagerly awaiting it?

There are many other common Calvinistic errors that I don't have time to address right now, but in the next couple of days I will attempt to do so. Until then please address this error.

 

[Revmitchell]

It can be said that "we are redeemed" because we have a sure promise of the future.

It can also be said that "we will be redeemed" because we have not fully recieved redemption, which will not occur until we are taken up.

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant F1 mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, F2 5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

We are redeemed, We are being redeemed, and We will be redeemed. All true statements.