Preparing a truthful Calvinist sermon

[steaver]

God seeks and saves sinners. He doesn't seek and try to save them. God gives them the gifts of faith, repentance which causes them to seek Him...

That's the warm fuzzy make me feel good part of Calvinism. My OP sermon gets into the dirty, let's not say it that way part......and might I remind everyone here there has not been one Calvinist object to any part of MY sermon, no, not one. In fact we have two which have agreed that I do understand what Calvinism concludes, SBM and Willis giving it a :thumbs:

 

[convicted1]

I am honored you keep me in your mind....

 

[steaver]

I am honored you keep me in your mind....

Lol, brother, if you want to be a Calvinist, just stop wrestling with the dark truths that come with Calvinism. The OP is spot on, you struggle with it, seemingly oppose it, then switch to commending it, then back to declaring I have no understanding of Calvinism. You are all over the place. SBM sees Calvinism for what it is and embraces it fully, it sometimes takes a bit of prodding, but he then speaks out. I believe Icon embraces it fully as well, but he too struggles with calling a spade a spade, avoiding the tough questions and choosing to answer with vitriol and antimony.

We are on the Calvinism/Arminianism debate section, yet not one Calvinist has yet to point out where the OP sermon would be dishonest. What does that tell you? They all have me on block? They believe I have no understanding so they ignore me? You yourself gave it a :thumbsup: So this tells me it an honest sermon, but Calvinist just don't like it described in that way, keep it warm and fuzzy...

 

[Iconoclast]

Lol, brother, if you want to be a Calvinist, just stop wrestling with the dark truths that come with Calvinism. The OP is spot on, you struggle with it, seemingly oppose it, then switch to commending it, then back to declaring I have no understanding of Calvinism. You are all over the place. SBM sees Calvinism for what it is and embraces it fully, it sometimes takes a bit of prodding, but he then speaks out. I believe Icon embraces it fully as well, but he too struggles with calling a spade a spade, avoiding the tough questions and choosing to answer with vitriol and antimony.

We are on the Calvinism/Arminianism debate section, yet not one Calvinist has yet to point out where the OP sermon would be dishonest. What does that tell you? They all have me on block? They believe I have no understanding so they ignore me? You yourself gave it a :thumbsup: So this tells me it an honest sermon, but Calvinist just don't like it described in that way, keep it warm and fuzzy...

You show no inkling of understanding CALVINISM...I offered you several real sermons, rather than your make believe fantasy thoughts.

show from real sermons what you suggest...put up or shut up:laugh:

I believe Icon embraces it fully as well, but he too struggles with calling a spade a spade

:laugh: really???...ask my good friend Benjamin if that is so:laugh:

 

[JamesL]

We are on the Calvinism/Arminianism debate section, yet not one Calvinist has yet to point out where the OP sermon would be dishonest. What does that tell you? They all have me on block? They believe I have no understanding so they ignore me? You yourself gave it a :thumbsup: So this tells me it an honest sermon, but Calvinist just don't like it described in that way, keep it warm and fuzzy...

I've read it, and there are a couple of fundamental flaws. Not dishonesty, or anything necessarily wrong, but flaws.

The first flaw is presuming that a Calvinist would preach that message to an unbeliever. They wouldn't that sort of teaching comes later. Kinda like the secrets of Freemasonry or Mormonism. They preach Christ crucified, then turn it around later. To those who have been along for the whole ride, it seems as though nothing has been altered.

The second flaw is not realizing the cornerstone of Calvinism, which is works. Not grace, but works. It's a starting idea that only good people go to heaven. But none are good. So God has to intervene and make them good, so now they're acting good enough to go to heaven. Romans 1:16 could be turned over in Calvinism to read "the gospel is the power of God for salvation to everyone who behaves"

Work backward through the TULIP:
persevering in Good works is the preeminent ingredient. I have to obey God if I want to go to heaven

I'm obeying God because I believe the gospel through His irresistible grace

I believe because it's only natural. After all, Christ died for me . And He doesn't fail

He died for Me because I was elected before the foundation of the world

I was elected in spite of my total depravity.


So because God requires me to obey Him if I want to go to heaven, He had to hand pick me. Then His Son died for Me. I was given a new "want to" to commit myself to obeying Him, which is the substance of faith. Now I am working what God requires of me to do, in order that I can be "finally saved"

But I can't take credit, God is doing it all in me. That is why I am always looking to my works, to have assurance that God chose me.

 

[plain_n_simple]

Regardless of what the Calvinist thinks of a non-Cal understanding Calvinism:

You have a 50% chance of going to hell no matter what you believe.

You have zero assurance that you have been chosen.

Your heart and mindset cannot ever be truly for the lost because there is no way you can be sure you are preaching to an elect person.

Your founder was a murderer.

 

[savedbymercy]

Regardless of what the Calvinist thinks of a non-Cal understanding Calvinism:

You have a 50% chance of going to hell no matter what you believe.

You have zero assurance that you have been chosen.

Your heart and mindset cannot ever be truly for the lost because there is no way you can be sure you are preaching to an elect person.

Your founder was a murderer.

Preaching has a purpose for Lost People too ! God's Word always fulfills His Purpose for which it was sent Isa 55:11

So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

 

[plain_n_simple]

Preaching has a purpose for Lost People too ! God's Word always fulfills His Purpose for which it was sent Isa 55:11

So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

You are guessing at best when you witness!

 

[savedbymercy]

You are guessing at best when you witness!

Obviously you did not understand that which I stated !

 

[plain_n_simple]

It is a lie for a man to stand before an audience and preach that God will save those that hear him if they will believe and put their trust in Jesus Christ, if God has elected that some of them cannot respond! God is not the author of lies! Satan is the author of the sin of lying! (John 8:44). What a gross insult to the truth and to Almighty God to make God a liar and His evangelists a party to it, though this false teaching!

 

[savedbymercy]

It is a lie for a man to stand before an audience and preach that God will save those that hear him if they will believe and put their trust in Jesus Christ, if God has elected that some of them cannot respond! God is not the author of lies! Satan is the author of the sin of lying! (John 8:44). What a gross insult to the truth and to Almighty God to make God a liar and His evangelists a party to it, though this false teaching!

One must be saved before they can hear and believe the Gospel!

The Gospel is hid to them that are lost 2 Cor 4:3 !

Also one must be of God to Hear God's words John 8:47 !

 

[plain_n_simple]

One must be saved before they can hear and believe the Gospel!

The Gospel is hid to them that are lost 2 Cor 4:3 !

Also one must be of God to Hear God's words John 8:47 !

You must hear the gospel before you are saved! Why hear the gospel if you are already saved! This is how twisted your Satanic backwards gospel is!

 

[savedbymercy]

You must hear the gospel before you are saved! Why hear the gospel if you are already saved! This is how twisted your Satanic backwards gospel is!

Because it's the Gospel of their Salvation ! They are suppose to Hear about it and Praise and Thank God for it Duh !

 

[plain_n_simple]

But you say they are already saved duh! Why hear and believe if you are already saved? Because you have been deceived by a man's gospel, and not the gospel of Jesus Christ! Your Lord is John Calvin whose Lord was Lucifer, who twists and contorts holy scripture so you sound foolish!

 

[savedbymercy]

But you say they are already saved duh! Why hear and believe if you are already saved? Because you have been deceived by a man's gospel, and not the gospel of Jesus Christ! Your Lord is John Calvin whose Lord was Lucifer, who twists and contorts holy scripture so you sound foolish!

Of course they were already saved by Christ, or else how could it be the Gospel of their Salvation ? A Lost person doesnt have Salvation ! Duh !

Why would God send the Gospel of ones Salvation to a Lost person ? Duh ! Thats telling them a Lie !

 

[plain_n_simple]

Of course they were already saved by Christ, or else how could it be the Gospel of their Salvation ? A Lost person doesnt have Salvation ! Duh !

Why would God send the Gospel of ones Salvation to a Lost person ? Duh ! Thats telling them a Lie !

They are already saved duh! Why tell them the gospel? Why does it matter that they believe if they are already saved? Duh!

 

[PreachTony]

They are already saved duh! Why tell them the gospel? Why does it matter that they believe if they are already saved? Duh!

We've been through this, plain_n_simple. Savedbymercy believes that people are born saved or born damned. The scripture that says faith comes by hearing the preached word is ignored in sbm's theology. He claims that we were perfected by God before birth, but then we were born sinners.

The word IF is also ignored. He claims the gospel is permanently hidden to the lost, and he bases that off Paul's writing that "IF our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost. Even though everyone else here knows that the IF places a condition on that statement that someone might possibly hide the gospel, savedbymercy has informed us that we are all wrong. God has hidden the gospel from the lost and left them to damnation.

His theology and his idea of the gospel is incredibly backwards and, if taught to lost sinners, will most definitely damn them to Hell. In his theology, there is no point preaching to the lost. Jesus's Great Commission means nothing. Paul's writings on the inextricable link between the preached gospel and salvation is meaningless. This is beyond Calvinism. Even hyper-Calvinists are looking toward sbm and trying to figure out where he's coming from.

 

[plain_n_simple]

We've been through this, plain_n_simple. Savedbymercy believes that people are born saved or born damned. The scripture that says faith comes by hearing the preached word is ignored in sbm's theology. He claims that we were perfected by God before birth, but then we were born sinners.

The word IF is also ignored. He claims the gospel is permanently hidden to the lost, and he bases that off Paul's writing that "IF our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost. Even though everyone else here knows that the IF places a condition on that statement that someone might possibly hide the gospel, savedbymercy has informed us that we are all wrong. God has hidden the gospel from the lost and left them to damnation.

His theology and his idea of the gospel is incredibly backwards and, if taught to lost sinners, will most definitely damn them to Hell. In his theology, there is no point preaching to the lost. Jesus's Great Commission means nothing. Paul's writings on the inextricable link between the preached gospel and salvation is meaningless. This is beyond Calvinism. Even hyper-Calvinists are looking toward sbm and trying to figure out where he's coming from.

Thanks for the insight.

 

[PreachTony]

Thanks for the insight.

You're welcome. I realized after I typed my response that the beginning may have sounded snarky, which was not my intention. I've been around the mountain several times with savedbymercy. His idea of debate and discussion is to ignore everything you write, labeling it as rabbit trails and evasion, and demanding you answer Yes or No questions that are structured very similarly to "Answer Yes or No: Do you still beat your wife?"

 

[plain_n_simple]

You're welcome. I realized after I typed my response that the beginning may have sounded snarky, which was not my intention. I've been around the mountain several times with savedbymercy. His idea of debate and discussion is to ignore everything you write, labeling it as rabbit trails and evasion, and demanding you answer Yes or No questions that are structured very similarly to "Answer Yes or No: Do you still beat your wife?"

lol:thumbsup::laugh: