Your paradigm only allows for one application for wrath and expiation, whereas scripture speaks of two for each.
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Preparing a truthful Calvinist sermon
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Your paradigm only allows for one application for wrath and expiation, whereas scripture speaks of two for each.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Until you read the Bible to understand that this is in fact the "Atoning Sacrifice" of "the Day of Atonement" - as we see in Lev 16. And that the entire process of "Atonement" as GOD describes it - includes BOTH Christ's work as our "Atoning Sacrifice" AND Christ's work as our High Priest.
The very thing Calvinism fears - because it allows for an UNLIMITED Atoning Sacrifice at the cross 1 John 2:2 - with a LIMITED Atonement result for just the saved -- which is Arminian doctrine not Calvinist.
Thus the lost are under judgment and condemnation until they accept God's Gospel solution.
WERE you a child of wrath as Paul said HE was at one time??
[FONT="]Eph 2[/FONT][FONT="]
3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
Were you "by nature a child of wrath" before you were saved in real life? on this actual earth? or is Paul simply "wrong"??
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John 1 "He came to HIS OWN and HIS OWN received Him not" God's effort was towards them -- his Sovereign initiative.
He who is the "Atoning Sacrifice for OUR sins and not for OUR sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD" 1 John 2:2
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As we all know by now -- you will insist that this gets posted "again".
Well then, you really have no legitimate objection that I can respond to. :wavey:
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
It is legitimate. Your introductory remarks were incorrect as I noted.
You said the following:
No one os saved by belief in Calvinism or even belief in TULIP/Calvinism. The OP is nonsensical!
I could quote John 3:16 but I believe you know it!
His obsession with 'Calvinism' is nonsensical. Does he really think his petty objections and misrepresentations to Sovereign Grace is going to make it go away?
.....and I don't even know why I'm wasting my time posting on this thread, because I'm really not the least interested in the controversy any longer. To me, synergism is ENTRY LEVEL Christian doctrine, monergism is more ADVANCED Christian doctrine, and neither has zilch to do with being a good Christian. Pleasing the Lord has everything to do with being a good Christian, not what you have straight or correct in your head.
.....and I don't even know why I'm wasting my time posting on this thread, because I'm really not the least interested in the controversy any longer. To me, synergism is ENTRY LEVEL Christian doctrine, monergism is more ADVANCED Christian doctrine, and neither has zilch to do with being a good Christian. Pleasing the Lord has everything to do with being a good Christian, not what you have straight or correct in your head.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
In Rev 3:20 we see that not everyone in the church is saved - I thought we all agreed on that obvious point by now.
However I think I do see your point that from a Calvinist POV it is either Calvinism .... or ... evangelism.
Well this is the controversy within the Calvinist camp. SBM believes TULIP is the Gospel, Icon and Willis believes the same. Willis gives the OP sermon a :thumbs:. Icon says I don't understand Calvinism yet has not opposed the OP sermon and given any reason why it would NOT be honest. And neither has any Calvinist replied to oppose it, which leaves the board with the impression that the OP sermon is being honest. You yourself have not even read the OP sermon, or maybe you could then point out why it is not being honest.
convicted1
Guest
Oh, so you're here to get us unsaved folk on the BB saved, right?
So what do we have to do to be saved according to your formula, keep Saturday holy and become vegetarians?
Please, by all means, tell me what you think I need to do to fit your model of 'saved'.
I gave you several real Cal sermons...have you commented on them yet?
:laugh: Good one brother! How bout you start a new thread on Cal sermons. This OP is very specific being about MY sermon, which you say I have no understanding of Calvinism, but give absolutely no criticism of the sermon I have prepared, nada, zip! Go ahead and point out which part you find dishonest and tell us why? Boy, you guys are really taking a beating here...not one Calvinist has spoken up to disagree with the OP sermon, not one...........yet you keep declaring I have no understanding of Calvinism......
savedbymercy
New Member
One cannot be in a saved state if they don't believe the Gospel, and the Truths of Tulip are the Gospel !
Thank you!
Which answers my questions I posed earlier to you...
I believe SBM has accepted the ultimate conclusions of TULIP. And I believe if truth be known, most Calvinist either believe the same and won't admit it publically, or they are in a state of struggle over this within their own soul. I don't see how one could fully embrace TULIP and not conclude any different. The only alternative would be to reject the teaching of TULIP.
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