I am sorry for your unbelief in this Yeshua! But your unbelief can not take away what God has blessed my life with!
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Private prayer language
- Thread starter Thomas Helwys
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Where do you get this information? Your schools you attend? Where is that written in the Word! IF you can not prove that by the Word, don't proclaim it!It was a historical record of that the HS did among the Christians in the Apsotolic Age of the church, but NOT the blueprint to how he would continue to Operate all times!
THAT would be found in the Epistles!
Speaking to God is prayer!NO personal prayer tongue in the Bible, and the HS did speak thru those gifted with tongues/interpretation in Apostolic church, for he moved upn them to give forth utterance same way an OT prophet would have...
Do you see that manifesting in your church, that perfect revelation from him ongoing?
I am sorry for your unbelief in this Yeshua! But your unbelief can not take away what God has blessed my life with!
This is the problem with Charismatics. They hold experience as equal to scripture.
I am sorry for your unbelief in this Yeshua! But your unbelief can not take away what God has blessed my life with!
i was involved in the pentacostal 'experience" for 10 yeras of my walk with the lord, was prophesying, babbling in tongues etc, but the Lord revealed to me thru the bible by His Spirit and thru godly teachers that what was being done was all hype/hysteria/emotionalism, NOT biblcal, and i have repented of that , and not spoke in togues/prophesied over 20 years now! praise God!
Gal. 5:22-23So we're on the same page: Please identify the "fruit." I have a specific scripture in mind; just want to make sure we're talking about the same thing.
Faith! Because the Word says it is praising God!If you don't know what's being said, then how can you verify that it's praying well?
He is speaking of being unprofitable to the assembly! God will give us the interpretation if we ask!BUT, it does mean it was as a tinkling cymbal, an uncertain sound, a barbarian; and worse, unprofitable. What does "unprofitable" mean?
yes, sorry!Which book are you referencing with "13:28"? Did you mean 1 Cor 14:28?
It says speak to yourself AND to God! THat means keep it to yourself and God! Praying in the spirit is between you and God unless you interpret it for the assembly.1 Cor 14:28 does not encourage a "private prayer language." And consider this: Carefully read that verse. "If there be no interpreter, then keep silent and speak to yourself and to God."
1) If there be no interpreter - so before you jump up and start speaking in tongues, the implication is that you know the interpretation before you start speaking. Otherwise, how could you follow the command to keep silent if you don't know whether there's an interpreter?
2) Speak to yourself - How can you speak to yourself if you don't know what you're saying?
I agree with Paul! We are to covet prophesy for the edification of the church. If tongues is done in order and with interpretation in the church it should not be forbidden like some churches do!You avoided my point. The first verse of Chapter 14 says that Paul would rather we seek to prophesy; he says this again in verse 5. And then he ends this portion of his letter by telling them he doesn't forbid them from speaking in tongues (in the context of the church assembly), but then encourages them to covet prophesying.
We are not told to covet..we are told to desire them. But covet prophesy to edify the church!Take a long, hard look at that word "covet." Coveting your neighbor's wife is a sin; but Paul says we should covet to prophesy. That indicates the gravity, the importance, of desiring that particular gift.
So I ask again: Where are we told to "covet" speaking in tongues?
It is not for unbelievers ...it is a sign to unbelievers...there is a difference! AN unbeliever can not manifest what he does not have!But look at at verse 12 again, especially how it ends: "yet they would not hear."
Even this passage talks about tongues being for unbelievers! Not for self!
What do you mean by "it is a language that God knows"?
NO, scripture came first for me! I read, I believed, I received, I experienced!This is the problem with Charismatics. They hold experience as equal to scripture.
Was it God or satan? Satan hates the manifestation of the Holy Spirit, especially tongues!i was involved in the pentacostal 'experience" for 10 yeras of my walk with the lord, was prophesying, babbling in tongues etc, but the Lord revealed to me thru the bible by His Spirit and thru godly teachers that what was being done was all hype/hysteria/emotionalism, NOT biblcal, and i have repented of that , and not spoke in togues/prophesied over 20 years now! praise God!
Well, my experience was just the opposite! I have been in a Baptist church all my life, still in one! God open my eyes to the truth you are denying!
Maybe yours was not real? I can not say!
One thing about being in the Baptist church when I embraced this truth is that they will not let things get unbiblical or out of line! But they also do not ignore what scripture is plain about!
Was it God or satan? Satan hates the manifestation of the Holy Spirit, especially tongues!
Well, my experience was just the opposite! I have been in a Baptist church all my life, still in one! God open my eyes to the truth you are denying!
Maybe yours was not real? I can not say!
One thing about being in the Baptist church when I embraced this truth is that they will not let things get unbiblical or out of line! But they also do not ignore what scripture is plain about!
you have teachers and a pastor who are either blind to the truth of the bible, or else have gotton caught up in emotionalism and experiences trumping the biblefor doctrine!
Ask yoyurslef, is it God or satan? Does God contridict His own bible?
Would say for me learned emotional response/behaviour!
Was it God or satan? Satan hates the manifestation of the Holy Spirit, especially tongues!
Scripture please
And this is the crux of the whole matter. You have some very Godly men here, some who have been in the ministry a very long time, showing how you are twisting the Scripture and making mean something that it doesn't mean. We all agree on that.I am sorry for your unbelief in this Yeshua! But your unbelief can not take away what God has blessed my life with!
But why is that so?
Because you have made experience the foundation of your knowledge, your theology, etc.
You have built around your experience instead of the Bible. Experience comes first, and then the Bible in your life.
"Your unbelief (a false accusation) cannot take away away what God has blessed my life with!"
Everything surrounds that statement, that experience.
God doesn't bless a private prayer language. It is confusion, and God condemns it. But you are not listening. You have shut the door to sound wisdom, Biblical exegesis, and exposition. You simply explain Scripture away using experience as a foundation, and not the Bible. In fact you add to the Bible in some cases, making the condemnation even greater.
ARe you saying that satan likes the manifestation of the Holy Spirit?Scripture please
NO! God does not contradict His Word...and we are also not to ignore what is in His Word!you have teachers and a pastor who are either blind to the truth of the bible, or else have gotton caught up in emotionalism and experiences trumping the biblefor doctrine!
Ask yoyurslef, is it God or satan? Does God contridict His own bible?
Would say for me learned emotional response/behaviour!
Show me one thing I have posted that contradicts His Word (not your interpretation)....
Have you answered the question...is speaking to God, prayer?
I will repeat...I read it in His Word, I believed what His Word said! I received it into my own life! I experience it!And this is the crux of the whole matter. You have some very Godly men here, some who have been in the ministry a very long time, showing how you are twisting the Scripture and making mean something that it doesn't mean. We all agree on that.
But why is that so?
Because you have made experience the foundation of your knowledge, your theology, etc.
You have built around your experience instead of the Bible. Experience comes first, and then the Bible in your life.
"Your unbelief (a false accusation) cannot take away away what God has blessed my life with!"
Everything surrounds that statement, that experience.
God doesn't bless a private prayer language. It is confusion, and God condemns it. But you are not listening. You have shut the door to sound wisdom, Biblical exegesis, and exposition. You simply explain Scripture away using experience as a foundation, and not the Bible. In fact you add to the Bible in some cases, making the condemnation even greater.
YOu can twist my words all you want and get off subject of the OP by bringing in my personal walk all you want! But it is evident that you will do this every time you can not prove your theory with scripture!
ARe you saying that satan likes the manifestation of the Holy Spirit?
we are saying that most of what happens in Charasmatic circles, at least tone ones that hold to teachings of the likes of Hinn/Copeland/hagin are NOT of the HS, but of the antichrist spirit, for that teaching denies/perverts word of God!
Are you into word of daith, name it claim it prosperity etc?
Same scripture I was thinking. SO - can an unbeliever show love? Joy? Peace? Gentleness? Or can only believers exhibit those fruits?Gal. 5:22-23
Consider this carefully: Even the devils believe, and tremble. Scripture tells us there are those that will say they have cast out devils in His name, but He will tell them He never knew them.Faith! Because the Word says it is praising God!
If there are those that cast out devils, and those that exhibit love, joy, peace, gentleness; but He will say He never knew them ... then how can you say that speaking in tongues is always the Holy Spirit speaking, especially if you don't know what's being said?
No; in 1 Cor 13, he wasn't speaking of the assembly. He then took the same concept in 1 Cor 14, and applied it to the assembly.He is speaking of being unprofitable to the assembly! God will give us the interpretation if we ask!
So how would you pray to God without knowing what you were praying? Would you not understand the intent of your own heart?yes, sorry!
It says speak to yourself AND to God! THat means keep it to yourself and God! Praying in the spirit is between you and God unless you interpret it for the assembly.
Exactly. We're not told to covet tongues. Instead, we're warned about their use.I agree with Paul! We are to covet prophesy for the edification of the church. If tongues is done in order and with interpretation in the church it should not be forbidden like some churches do!
We are not told to covet..we are told to desire them. But covet prophesy to edify the church!
That was merely a typo, leaving out "a sign"; so look at Isaiah 28:12 again, and consider carefully that this passage does not encourage a private prayer language, but states what is said over and over in scripture: tongues are a sign for unbelievers. So Isaiah 28:12 cannot be used in the context/manner with which you attempted to use it.It is not for unbelievers ...it is a sign to unbelievers...there is a difference! AN unbeliever can not manifest what he does not have!
I will repeat what I said elsewhere.I will repeat...I read it in His Word, I believed what His Word said! I received it into my own life! I experience it!
YOu can twist my words all you want and get off subject of the OP by bringing in my personal walk all you want! But it is evident that you will do this every time you can not prove your theory with scripture!
You may have read his Word, but you haven't believed a correct interpretation of it. That means you haven't believed it at all. Believing a misinterpretation is not belief. Believing error is a denial of the truth. It renders whatever your experience you have had not of God.
Same scripture I was thinking. SO - can an unbeliever show love? Joy? Peace? Gentleness? Or can only believers exhibit those fruits?
Consider this carefully: Even the devils believe, and tremble. Scripture tells us there are those that will say they have cast out devils in His name, but He will tell them He never knew them.
If there are those that cast out devils, and those that exhibit love, joy, peace, gentleness; but He will say He never knew them ... then how can you say that speaking in tongues is always the Holy Spirit speaking, especially if you don't know what's being said?
No; in 1 Cor 13, he wasn't speaking of the assembly. He then took the same concept in 1 Cor 14, and applied it to the assembly.
So how would you pray to God without knowing what you were praying? Would you not understand the intent of your own heart?
Exactly. We're not told to covet tongues. Instead, we're warned about their use.
That was merely a typo, leaving out "a sign"; so look at Isaiah 28:12 again, and consider carefully that this passage does not encourage a private prayer language, but states what is said over and over in scripture: tongues are a sign for unbelievers. So Isaiah 28:12 cannot be used in the context/manner with which you attempted to use it.
I keep going back to jesus Himself said that in last days, there WILL BE indeed signs and wonders, but warned from satan antichrist demons, and their purpose will be to deceive the whole world!
jesus Himself also said what is important is NOT casting out demons, healings etc, but rejoice that our names written down in book of life!
Lets stick to the scriptures and the OP! Is speaking to God, prayer?we are saying that most of what happens in Charasmatic circles, at least tone ones that hold to teachings of the likes of Hinn/Copeland/hagin are NOT of the HS, but of the antichrist spirit, for that teaching denies/perverts word of God!
Are you into word of daith, name it claim it prosperity etc?
In some sense, yes!Same scripture I was thinking. SO - can an unbeliever show love? Joy? Peace? Gentleness? Or can only believers exhibit those fruits?
Again, it is faith! What did Jesus say about others than the disciples casting out devils?Consider this carefully: Even the devils believe, and tremble. Scripture tells us there are those that will say they have cast out devils in His name, but He will tell them He never knew them.
If there are those that cast out devils, and those that exhibit love, joy, peace, gentleness; but He will say He never knew them ... then how can you say that speaking in tongues is always the Holy Spirit speaking, especially if you don't know what's being said?
In 1 Cor. 13 he is explaining that without love nothing you do is profitable! He goes to the extreme to explain it with his illustrations! Without love nothing is profitableNo; in 1 Cor 13, he wasn't speaking of the assembly. He then took the same concept in 1 Cor 14, and applied it to the assembly.
I trust the Holy Spirit that is praying through me! I can pray with my own understanding AND I can pray with my spirit! It is with our spirit that we are praying.So how would you pray to God without knowing what you were praying? Would you not understand the intent of your own heart?
We are warned about the use in the assembly without the interpretation!Exactly. We're not told to covet tongues. Instead, we're warned about their use.
So are you saying that in 1 Cor. 14 is not using it? He is speaking of tongues!That was merely a typo, leaving out "a sign"; so look at Isaiah 28:12 again, and consider carefully that this passage does not encourage a private prayer language, but states what is said over and over in scripture: tongues are a sign for unbelievers. So Isaiah 28:12 cannot be used in the context/manner with which you attempted to use it.
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