Prolife myth

[targus]

Who said anyone supports murder of the already born?

Oh well, we're both just evil liberals that support the Democrats and abortionists because we don't think abortion is worse than the murder of the already born.

Perhaps I misunderstood your meaning.

Please explain.

 

[OldRegular]

Who here supports murder of the already born?

I don't really know! I simply assume "wade" and Zaac are mimicking Crabbie! That is his standard response to those who take a stand against the slaughter of unborn children, ~4000 each day as you noted earlier!

 

[matt wade]

Perhaps I misunderstood your meaning.

Please explain.

First, it was a tongue in cheek comment.

Second, it referred to the fact that some people on here believe that murdering an unborn child is a greater sin than murdering a born child (or adult).

"A person who supports the slaughter of the unborn is worse than an Islamic Terrorist!" - OldRegular

"War is hell for sure Crabbie but a person who supports the slaughter of the unborn is worse than the Islamic terrorists and deserving of worse condemnation than they are!" - OldRegular


I never said anyone supports the murder of the already born. Simply that they believe murder of the already born is a lesser sin than murder of the unborn.

 

[targus]

First, it was a tongue in cheek comment.

Second, it referred to the fact that some people on here believe that murdering an unborn child is a greater sin than murdering a born child (or adult).

"A person who supports the slaughter of the unborn is worse than an Islamic Terrorist!" - OldRegular

"War is hell for sure Crabbie but a person who supports the slaughter of the unborn is worse than the Islamic terrorists and deserving of worse condemnation than they are!" - OldRegular


I never said anyone supports the murder of the already born. Simply that they believe murder of the already born is a lesser sin than murder of the unborn.

Which victims are least able to defend themselves?

Which victims are murdered by the very persons that God provided to protect them?

 

[matt wade]

Which victims are least able to defend themselves?

Which victims are murdered by the very persons that God provided to protect them?

Show me with Scripture were the murder of the unborn is a sin demanding higher consequence than murder of the already born.

 

[OldRegular]

Scripture tells us:

Romans 3:23. For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Romans 5:12. Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

I believe that the doctrine of inherited sin nature is Biblical, that every person born into this world will sin and is therefore no longer innocent. I believe the unborn child or the just born child or very young children are innocent.

Scripture also tells us {repeating from an earlier post}:

Proverbs 6:16-19
16. These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17. A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18. An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
19. A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

God hates the hands that shed innocent blood, therefore I believe that the slaughter of the unborn or the just born child is worse than the murder of an adult. I believe God does also! If I am wrong God will hold me accountable but no one on this board can, especially those hypocrites on this BB who support the continuation of this slaughter!

In 2002 Congress passed a law that required medical treatment for babies alive after being aborted. Barak Obama, as an Illinois state senator , three times was able to stop passage of such a law in Illinois yet some on this BB proudly support Obama and the democrat party. Following is more about Obama:

Shocking Audio: Barack Obama argues against giving medical care to babies born alive after botched abortions



Barack Obama and the Democrats have spent the past several days blasting Republicans for “extreme” views on abortion. But is this a fight they really want to have? Considering President Obama’s deplorable record on protecting infant life (yes, outside the womb), Democrats might want to think twice.

Let me first offer a little background on what is happening in this audio. When Barack Obama was a state senator in Illinois, a nurse named Jill Stanek blew the whistle on hospitals on Illinois that were allowing babies who were born alive after botched abortion procedures to be discarded in linen closets until they died of neglect and complications from the procedure. Stanek testified before the Illinois Senate (and later the United States Congress) and described sitting in a closet, holding a baby until it died because doctors refused to treat the newborn.

Here’s a little bit from Stanek’s testimony before Congress:

One night, a nursing co-worker was taking an aborted Down’s syndrome baby who was born alive to our Soiled Utility Room because his parents did not want to hold him and she did not have time to hold him. I could not bear the thought of this suffering child dying alone in a Soiled Utility Room, so I cradled and rocked him for the 45 minutes that he lived. He was about 22 weeks old, weighed about a half a pound, and was about 10 inches long, about the size of my hand. He was too weak to move very much, expending any energy that he had trying to breathe. Toward the end of his life he was so quiet that I couldn’t tell if he was still alive unless I held him up to the light to see if his little heart was still beating through his chest wall. After he was pronounced dead, we folded his little arms across his chest, tied his hands together with a string, wrapped him in a tiny shroud, and carried him to the hospital morgue where all of our other dead patients go.

read the rest

As a result of Stanek’s testimony, a bill moved forward in the Illinois legislature known as the Born Alive Infants Protection Act which would mandate that doctors give all infants born alive the necessary medical care to live.

State Senator Obama blocked the legislation three times as it came up for votes in the Illinois Senate, arguing that abortion doctors should be allowed to deny life saving treatment to live infants outside the womb.

Here is audio of some of Obama’s testimony:



As you can hear, Obama refers to the baby multiple times as “child,” “live child,” and “children who are being born alive,” indicating that he knew very well the bill pertained to living babies outside the womb. Yet Obama argued solely on the behalf of the abortionist performing the procedure, concerned only with the physician’s liability rather than the death of a “live child.”

To add further context, after the Born Alive Infants Protection Act failed in Illinois, Jill Stanek took her testimony to Capitol Hill and spoke before the House of Representatives. Eventually, on the Federal level, the law to protect babies born alive was passed unanimously by the US Senate.

Think about that for a moment. On the Federal level, every single member of the United States Senate voted in favor of the Born Alive Infants Protection Act. Ted Kennedy voted for it. Hillary Clinton voted for it. Harry Reid voted for it. Barbera Boxer voted for it. Everyone.

Yet, in Illinois, Barack Obama blocked the same legislation three times. Why could Barack Obama not agree with every liberal member of the US Senate? President Obama’s views on abortion are so radical and extreme that he voted three times in favor of infanticide: the killing of babies outside the womb.

If the Obama campaign and Democrats want to have a debate about abortion, let’s have it. Let’s put all the cards on the table and see whose side the American people are on.

http://poorrichardsnews.com/post/30057721171/shocking-audio-barack-obama-argues-against-giving

 

[matt wade]

I believe that the doctrine of inherited sin nature is Biblical, that every person born into this world will sin and is therefore no longer innocent. I believe the unborn child or the just born child or very young children are innocent.

Prove from Scripture that an unborn child or the just born child or the very young children have not inherited the sin nature.

 

[targus]

Duplicate post.

 

[targus]

Show me with Scripture were the murder of the unborn is a sin demanding higher consequence than murder of the already born.

I did not say anything concerning that at all.

But are all actions equal?

Are the actions of a child stealing a piece of candy the same as an adult going on a murder spree with an automatic weapon?

 

[Crabtownboy]

I see Crabbie has at least one disciple!

And you tell a falsehood again.

You are upset with me because I called you out as being only pro-birth and not pro[-life. And, that is true. You care nothing about helping those already born.

Of course being pro-birth costs you nothing. Being truly pro-life may cost you and you do not like that idea at all.

As another poster pointed out you are prime example of those described in the OP ... sorry to say.

Remember the scripture in Matthew describing the last judgement?

Let me remind you:

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? 39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers,[a] you did it to me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ 44 Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ 45 Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

 

[targus]

And you tell a falsehood again.

You are upset with me because I called you out as being only pro-birth and not pro[-life. And, that is true. You care nothing about helping those already born.

Of course being pro-birth costs you nothing. Being truly pro-life may cost you and you do not like that idea at all.

As another poster pointed out you are prime example of those described in the OP ... sorry to say.

Actually CTB is an example of the OP.

Spinning the myth that "prolife" means not caring.

Then taking that myth and tainting people that he does not know with it.

A technique know as bigotry.

 

[OldRegular]

And you tell a falsehood again.

You are upset with me because I called you out as being only pro-birth and not pro[-life. And, that is true. You care nothing about helping those already born.

Of course being pro-birth costs you nothing. Being truly pro-life may cost you and you do not like that idea at all.

As another poster pointed out you are prime example of those described in the OP ... sorry to say. [/SIZE]

You are a "little" man Crabbie! I don't mean little in stature because I have never seen you. But you are "little in mind and in spirit". You know nothing about me other than I am a Republican and hate those who perform, support, and justify abortion. Yet you say that I care nothing about those already born.

My guess is that targus may have had you in mind when he started this thread:

So where did this myth that prolife equals "lacking in compassion" and proabortion equals "caring for others" come from?

It brings to mind Isaiah 5:20

I am going to post that Scripture and another Crabbie which I hope you will take to heart!

Isaiah 5:20, 21
20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
21 Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!

Proverbs 6:16-19
16. These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17. A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18. An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
19. A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Surely no person is more innocent than an unborn child!

 

[OldRegular]

And you tell a falsehood again.

You are upset with me because I called you out as being only pro-birth and not pro[-life. And, that is true. You care nothing about helping those already born.

Of course being pro-birth costs you nothing. Being truly pro-life may cost you and you do not like that idea at all.

As another poster pointed out you are prime example of those described in the OP ... sorry to say.

Remember the scripture in Matthew describing the last judgement?

Let me remind you:

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? 39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers,[a] you did it to me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ 44 Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ 45 Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

I should have scrolled down further Crabbie. I did not see the Scripture you posted but I believe you are deviously questioning my salvation. Don't be "little" Crabbie. Man up to it and be direct!

 

[church mouse guy]

And you tell a falsehood again.

You are upset with me because I called you out as being only pro-birth and not pro[-life. And, that is true. You care nothing about helping those already born.

Of course being pro-birth costs you nothing. Being truly pro-life may cost you and you do not like that idea at all.

As another poster pointed out you are prime example of those described in the OP ... sorry to say.

Remember the scripture in Matthew describing the last judgement?

Let me remind you:

Pro-life has a specific public meaning and you are trying to twist it to fit Democrat talking points. That sort of rhetorical trick will only work with Democrats, who have a plank in their platform calling for abortion on demand.

 

[Zaac]

I don't really know! I simply assume "wade" and Zaac are mimicking Crabbie! That is his standard response to those who take a stand against the slaughter of unborn children, ~4000 each day as you noted earlier!

Now , now. I have no need to mimic anyone. My brain works just fine. :laugh:

And speaking of my brain, it always asks this question when people say what you said.

I believe that the doctrine of inherited sin nature is Biblical, that every person born into this world will sin and is therefore no longer innocent. I believe the unborn child or the just born child or very young children are innocent.

Now we who follow Christ have staked out ground that says killing a baby in the womb is STILL killing. It IS a person.

Scripture tells us, "For ALL have sinned". Rom. 3:23

So have the unborn babies sinned or not? Are they part of the ALL? I had it drilled in my head from the time I was a little kid and through Seminary that ALL means ALL.

So how do you reconcile the innocence of the unborn or just born or very young with your statement if Scripture is true?

It would appear that your approach opens the door to NOT believe Scripture and thus reason to render the unborn as not part of the ALL.

And if they aren't part of the ALL, then you're giving pro-abortionists more reason to be okay with abortion.

 

[OldRegular]

Pro-life has a specific public meaning and you are trying to twist it to fit Democrat talking points. That sort of rhetorical trick will only work with Democrats, who have a plank in their platform calling for abortion on demand.

And they spent part of one evening at the last nominating convention celebrating their position on the slaughter of the unborn child. Yet CTB makes excuses!

 

[Crabtownboy]

And they spent part of one evening at the last nominating convention celebrating their position on the slaughter of the unborn child. Yet CTB makes excuses!

You simply want to keep the term pro-life simple so you can feel good. But you really are not pro-life. Many who claim to be pro-life are not really pro-life ... they, and you, are simply pro-birth and you care nothing about providing for those kids in need once they are born. That would cost you and you do not want to pay the price of being truly pro-life.

You support a party that claims they are pro-life, but they are not. They simply want to collect votes by keeping it simply and blowing smoke. Your party wants to take away what little the poor and those in need have.

 

[OldRegular]

Now , now. I have no need to mimic anyone. My brain works just fine. :laugh:

And speaking of my brain, it always asks this question when people say what you said.



Now we who follow Christ have staked out ground that says killing a baby in the womb is STILL killing. It IS a person.

Scripture tells us, "For ALL have sinned". Rom. 3:23

So have the unborn babies sinned or not? Are they part of the ALL? I had it drilled in my head from the time I was a little kid and through Seminary that ALL means ALL.

So how do you reconcile the innocence of the unborn or just born or very young with your statement if Scripture is true?

It would appear that your approach opens the door to NOT believe Scripture and thus reason to render the unborn as not part of the ALL.

And if they aren't part of the ALL, then you're giving pro-abortionists more reason to be okay with abortion.

And just how does an unborn child sin? You really need a lesson in reading comprehension!

Originally Posted by OldRegular
I believe that the doctrine of inherited sin nature is Biblical, that every person born into this world will sin and is therefore no longer innocent. I believe the unborn child or the just born child or very young children are innocent.

 

[Crabtownboy]

I should have scrolled down further Crabbie. I did not see the Scripture you posted but I believe you are deviously questioning my salvation. Don't be "little" Crabbie. Man up to it and be direct!

For heavens sake, you cannot find the scripture in Matthew. I can only surmise from this that you have very little Biblical knowledge.

Ok, I will give you the reference:

Matthew 25:31-46

You will note there is nothing about abortion, nothing about birth in this passage on what the judgment will consist of. But there is a huge amount on how we will be judged considering how we treat others. This includes others in need, obviously in need.

 

[OldRegular]

You simply want to keep the term pro-life simple so you can feel good. But you really are not pro-life. Many who claim to be pro-life are not really pro-life ... they, and you, are simply pro-birth and you care nothing about providing for those kids in need once they are born. That would cost you and you do not want to pay the price of being truly pro-life.

You support a party that claims they are pro-life, but they are not. They simply want to collect votes by keeping it simply and blowing smoke. Your party wants to take away what little the poor and those in need have.

I repeat CTB!

You are a "little" man Crabbie! I don't mean little in stature because I have never seen you. But you are "little in mind and in spirit". You know nothing about me other than I am a Republican and hate those who perform, support, and justify abortion. Yet you say that I care nothing about those already born.

My guess is that targus may have had you in mind when he started this thread:

So where did this myth that prolife equals "lacking in compassion" and proabortion equals "caring for others" come from?

It brings to mind Isaiah 5:20

I am going to post that Scripture and another Crabbie which I hope you will take to heart!

Isaiah 5:20, 21
20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
21 Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!

Proverbs 6:16-19
16. These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17. A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18. An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
19. A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Surely no person is more innocent than an unborn child!