Purgatory

[Roy Kling]

You are in terrifying ignorance.

I understand your view on the matter and believe you and millions of Roman Catholics through the ages have been misled in the greed of your church. My view is that it's another money maker and control scheme to fill the coffers of one of, (if not) the richest organization on earth, akin to confession to a priest and paying the church to have your sins absolved. Jesus Christ paid the price for our sins by dying for us and his victory over death in his resurrection. PAID IN FULL! Thank you Lord Jesus!

 

[Silverhair]

It’s in your scripture if you understand the scripture. Already quoted it for people.

It also helps to have all 73 books of the original bible.

There were not 73 original books of the bible.

Jerome explicitly denied that the Old Testament Apocrypha should have the status as Scripture. Jerome said they were not books of the canon but rather books of the church.
Augustine recognized that the Old Testament Apocrypha was not part of the sacred Scripture of the Jews and that neither Christ nor His apostles considered these writings to be divinely inspired. But Augustine believed the church had the right to add these books to the Old Testament canon though neither the ancient Jews nor Christ accepted their authority.

The RCC pope Leo stated that the Old Testament Apocrypha was indeed part of the Old Testament canon. Then in 1546 the Council of Trent affirmed the Old Testament Apocrypha as Scripture. But excluded 3 books 1 and 2 Esdras and the Prayer of Manasseh.

So we see that even your RCC did not consider the Apocrypha as part of the original bible. You are just holding to the party line and supporting the addition of extra biblical texts into your version of scripture.

 

[Cathode]

There were not 73 original books of the bible.

Jerome explicitly denied that the Old Testament Apocrypha should have the status as Scripture. Jerome said they were not books of the canon but rather books of the church.
Augustine recognized that the Old Testament Apocrypha was not part of the sacred Scripture of the Jews and that neither Christ nor His apostles considered these writings to be divinely inspired. But Augustine believed the church had the right to add these books to the Old Testament canon though neither the ancient Jews nor Christ accepted their authority.

The RCC pope Leo stated that the Old Testament Apocrypha was indeed part of the Old Testament canon. Then in 1546 the Council of Trent affirmed the Old Testament Apocrypha as Scripture. But excluded 3 books 1 and 2 Esdras and the Prayer of Manasseh.

So we see that even your RCC did not consider the Apocrypha as part of the original bible. You are just holding to the party line and supporting the addition of extra biblical texts into your version of scripture.

The problem is you are ignorant of Church history. The Council of Rome was the first declaration of the 73 book Canon, then the Council of Hippo confirmed the same Canon, then the Council of Carthage.

“Likewise it has been said: Now indeed we must treat of the divine Scriptures, what the universal Catholic Church accepts and what she ought to shun. The order of the Old Testament begins here: Genesis one book, Exodus one book, Leviticus one book, Numbers one book, Deuteronomy one book, Josue Nave one book, Judges one book, Ruth one book, Kings four books, Paralipomenon two books, Psalms one book, Solomon three books, Proverbs one book, Ecclesiastes one book, Canticle of Canticles one book, likewise Wisdom one book, Ecclesiasticus one book. Likewise the order of the Prophets. Isaias one book, Jeremias one book,with Ginoth, that is, with his lamentations, Ezechiel one book,Daniel one book, Osee one book, Micheas one book, Joel one book, Abdias one book, Jonas one book, Nahum one book, Habacuc one book, Sophonias one book, Aggeus one book, Zacharias one book, Malachias one book. Likewise the order of the histories. Job one book, Tobias one book, Esdras two books, Esther one book, Judith one book, Machabees two books. Likewise the order of the writings of the New and eternal Testament, which only the holy and Catholic Church supports. Of the Gospels, according to Matthew one book, according to Mark one book, according to Luke one book, according to John one book. The Epistles of Paul [the apostle] in number fourteen. To the Romans one, to the Corinthians two, to the Ephesians one, to the Thessalonians two, to the Galatians one, to the Philippians one, to the Colossians one, to Timothy two, to Titus one, to Philemon one, to the Hebrews one. Likewise the Apocalypse of John, one book. And the Acts of the Apostles one book. Likewise the canonical epistles in number seven. Of Peter the Apostle two epistles, of James the Apostle one epistle, of John the Apostle one epistle, of another John, the presbyter, two epistles, of Jude the Zealut, the Apostle one epistle.” Pope Damasus (regn. A.D. 366-384), Decree of the Council of Rome, The Canon of Scripture (A.D. 382).

“Besides the canonical Scriptures, nothing shall be read, in the church under the title of divine writings.’. The canonical books are:—Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, Ruth, the four books of Kings, the two books of Paraleipomena (Chronicles), Job, the Psalms of David, the five books of Solomon, the twelve books of the (Minor) Prophets, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Daniel, Ezekiel, Tobias, Judith, Esther, two books of Esdras, two books of the Maccabees. The books of the New Testament are:—the four Gospels, the Acts of the Apostles, thirteen Epistles of S. Paul, one Epistle of S. Paul to the Hebrews, two Epistles of S. Peter, three Epistles of S. John, the Epistle of S. James, the Epistle of S. Jude, the Revelation of S. John. Concerning the confirmation of this canon, the transmarine Church shall be consulted.” Council of Hippo, Canon 36 (A.D. 393).

“[It has been decided] that nothing except the Canonical Scriptures should be read in the church under the name of the Divine Scriptures. But the Canonical Scriptures are: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Josue, Judges, Ruth, four books of Kings, Paralipomenon two books, Job, the Psalter of David, five books of Solomon, twelve books of the Prophets, Isaias, Jeremias, Daniel, Ezechiel, Tobias, Judith, Esther, two books of Esdras, two books of the Maccabees. Moreover, of the New Testament: Four books of the Gospels, the Acts of the Apostles one book, thirteen epistles of Paul the Apostle, one of the same to the Hebrews, two of Peter, three of John, one of James, one of Jude, the Apocalypse of John.” Council of Carthage III, Canon 47 (A.D. 397).

These are Councils of all the heads of the Churches around the ancient world, all confirming the same 73 book Canon.

What did Augustine say?

“The authority of our books [Scriptures], which is confirmed by agreement of so many nations, supported by a succession of apostles, bishops, and councils, is against you.” Augustine, Reply to Faustus the Manichean, 13:5 (c. A.D. 400).

I say to you the same thing Augustine said to the Manichaean. The authority of our books [Scriptures], which is confirmed by agreement of so many nations, supported by a succession of apostles, bishops, and councils, is against you.

Augustine accepted the 73 book Canon of the universal Councils.

The Bible was a 73 book Canon from the beginning.

Trent just reconfirmed the same 73 book Canon first declared in 382 AD, the Latin Vulgate.

So you are easily proven completely false here mate.

Protestants rewrite history because they have no history in the early Church and had nothing to do with the Canon of Scripture. They create falsehoods.

The Catholic Church is the Biblical Church.

 

[Cathode]

I understand your view on the matter and believe you and millions of Roman Catholics through the ages have been misled in the greed of your church. My view is that it's another money maker and control scheme to fill the coffers of one of, (if not) the richest organization on earth, akin to confession to a priest and paying the church to have your sins absolved. Jesus Christ paid the price for our sins by dying for us and his victory over death in his resurrection. PAID IN FULL! Thank you Lord Jesus!

Boring dude, same old prejudiced unthinking regurgitations.

Take a look at your Bible alone brethren making untold millions, with jets, mega yachts, and mansions around the globe.
There’s your real “money maker and control scheme to fill the coffers”.

The Catholic Church is realestate rich to be sure, but that’s only because it’s 2000 years old, Vatican hill was Rome’s garbage tip 2000 years ago where the bodies of Christians killed in the arena were discarded.

Sacred art is worth a fortune today, but it was gifted by great artists over generations, not being worth much originally apart from the sacred spiritual depictions. Their value to the Church was always spiritual.

The Vatican runs at a loss each year, it’s definitely not a money making scheme.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

So you have the Vaticans books to verify this do you! Please LOL

 

[Silverhair]

The problem is you are ignorant of Church history. The Council of Rome was the first declaration of the 73 book Canon, then the Council of Hippo confirmed the same Canon, then the Council of Carthage.

“Likewise it has been said: Now indeed we must treat of the divine Scriptures, what the universal Catholic Church accepts and what she ought to shun. The order of the Old Testament begins here: Genesis one book, Exodus one book, Leviticus one book, Numbers one book, Deuteronomy one book, Josue Nave one book, Judges one book, Ruth one book, Kings four books, Paralipomenon two books, Psalms one book, Solomon three books, Proverbs one book, Ecclesiastes one book, Canticle of Canticles one book, likewise Wisdom one book, Ecclesiasticus one book. Likewise the order of the Prophets. Isaias one book, Jeremias one book,with Ginoth, that is, with his lamentations, Ezechiel one book,Daniel one book, Osee one book, Micheas one book, Joel one book, Abdias one book, Jonas one book, Nahum one book, Habacuc one book, Sophonias one book, Aggeus one book, Zacharias one book, Malachias one book. Likewise the order of the histories. Job one book, Tobias one book, Esdras two books, Esther one book, Judith one book, Machabees two books. Likewise the order of the writings of the New and eternal Testament, which only the holy and Catholic Church supports. Of the Gospels, according to Matthew one book, according to Mark one book, according to Luke one book, according to John one book. The Epistles of Paul [the apostle] in number fourteen. To the Romans one, to the Corinthians two, to the Ephesians one, to the Thessalonians two, to the Galatians one, to the Philippians one, to the Colossians one, to Timothy two, to Titus one, to Philemon one, to the Hebrews one. Likewise the Apocalypse of John, one book. And the Acts of the Apostles one book. Likewise the canonical epistles in number seven. Of Peter the Apostle two epistles, of James the Apostle one epistle, of John the Apostle one epistle, of another John, the presbyter, two epistles, of Jude the Zealut, the Apostle one epistle.” Pope Damasus (regn. A.D. 366-384), Decree of the Council of Rome, The Canon of Scripture (A.D. 382).

“Besides the canonical Scriptures, nothing shall be read, in the church under the title of divine writings.’. The canonical books are:—Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, Ruth, the four books of Kings, the two books of Paraleipomena (Chronicles), Job, the Psalms of David, the five books of Solomon, the twelve books of the (Minor) Prophets, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Daniel, Ezekiel, Tobias, Judith, Esther, two books of Esdras, two books of the Maccabees. The books of the New Testament are:—the four Gospels, the Acts of the Apostles, thirteen Epistles of S. Paul, one Epistle of S. Paul to the Hebrews, two Epistles of S. Peter, three Epistles of S. John, the Epistle of S. James, the Epistle of S. Jude, the Revelation of S. John. Concerning the confirmation of this canon, the transmarine Church shall be consulted.” Council of Hippo, Canon 36 (A.D. 393).

“[It has been decided] that nothing except the Canonical Scriptures should be read in the church under the name of the Divine Scriptures. But the Canonical Scriptures are: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Josue, Judges, Ruth, four books of Kings, Paralipomenon two books, Job, the Psalter of David, five books of Solomon, twelve books of the Prophets, Isaias, Jeremias, Daniel, Ezechiel, Tobias, Judith, Esther, two books of Esdras, two books of the Maccabees. Moreover, of the New Testament: Four books of the Gospels, the Acts of the Apostles one book, thirteen epistles of Paul the Apostle, one of the same to the Hebrews, two of Peter, three of John, one of James, one of Jude, the Apocalypse of John.” Council of Carthage III, Canon 47 (A.D. 397).

These are Councils of all the heads of the Churches around the ancient world, all confirming the same 73 book Canon.

What did Augustine say?

“The authority of our books [Scriptures], which is confirmed by agreement of so many nations, supported by a succession of apostles, bishops, and councils, is against you.” Augustine, Reply to Faustus the Manichean, 13:5 (c. A.D. 400).

I say to you the same thing Augustine said to the Manichaean. The authority of our books [Scriptures], which is confirmed by agreement of so many nations, supported by a succession of apostles, bishops, and councils, is against you.

Augustine accepted the 73 book Canon of the universal Councils.

The Bible was a 73 book Canon from the beginning.

Trent just reconfirmed the same 73 book Canon first declared in 382 AD, the Latin Vulgate.

So you are easily proven completely false here mate.

Protestants rewrite history because they have no history in the early Church and had nothing to do with the Canon of Scripture. They create falsehoods.

The Catholic Church is the Biblical Church.

You really should not be throwing stones young man. You are the one that is trying to prove a false narrative. You are depending on the RCC to be truthful and they have been shown to be much less than that.

The canon of the New Testament was not set by some RCC council. That is just one more fallacy that the RCC has foisted on gullible people.

The Apocrypha is a collection of extra biblical books that the RCC included in the OT for support of their false doctrines.
Your councils may make you feel good but they do not support your false contention regarding the Apocrypha being scripture.

Would you expect any less from an RCC council than to support RCC dogma.

I know you think your RCC councils hold sway of all things biblical but you are wrong, they only hold sway over those in the RCC. So I will trust that the Jews know better what books belong in their scriptures.

The Complete Tanakh (Tanach) - Hebrew Bible​

 

[Cathode]

So you have the Vaticans books to verify this do you! Please LOL

The Vatican annual budget was $1.34 billion in 2023.

The university of Notre Dame’s annual budget was $1.8 billion, and an endowment fund of $16 billion.

Microsoft spent $25 billion on sales and marketing and $29 billion on R&D. Fiscal year 2024, and that is not even a nation state but a company.

The Vatican bank manages $5.4 billion in assets which is owned by the depositors, namely religious orders and Catholic Associations world wide.
JPMorgan Chase manages $3.5 Trillion

70% of realestate holdings of the Vatican’s 5000 properties in Italy and abroad are assigned or leased and don’t pay rent, they cost money and incur property taxes.

The Vatican has trouble funding its pension funds, it only has 5000 employees.
It would be the equivalent of running The United States with 500 government employees instead of the over 3 million employees the US government has on the payroll now.

If you want to believe lies and fictions to suit your prejudices, go ahead. The truth is, the Vatican isn’t rich at all.

 

[Cathode]

I know you think your RCC councils hold sway of all things biblical but you are wrong, they only hold sway over those in the RCC. So I will trust that the Jews know better what books belong in their scriptures.

​

Right, the same Jews that rejected Christ and all the New Testament Scriptures.

The Catholic Church did not consult the Jews on the Canon, read Augustine again.

“The authority of our books [Scriptures], which is confirmed by agreement of so many nations, supported by a succession of apostles, bishops, and councils, is against you.”

This is how the Canon was determined by the Catholic Church, Apostolic Tradition by Catholic Councils.

The Bible was 73 books from the beginning, it’s only when Protestants came along that they butchered and rejected parts of the Bible. The Bible which had stood the same for over 1000 years before protestants existed.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

The Vatican annual budget was $1.34 billion in 2023.

The university of Notre Dame’s annual budget was $1.8 billion, and an endowment fund of $16 billion.

Microsoft spent $25 billion on sales and marketing and $29 billion on R&D. Fiscal year 2024, and that is not even a nation state but a company.

The Vatican bank manages $5.4 billion in assets which is owned by the depositors, namely religious orders and Catholic Associations world wide.
JPMorgan Chase manages $3.5 Trillion

70% of realestate holdings of the Vatican’s 5000 properties in Italy and abroad are assigned or leased and don’t pay rent, they cost money and incur property taxes.

The Vatican has trouble funding its pension funds, it only has 5000 employees.
It would be the equivalent of running The United States with 500 government employees instead of the over 3 million employees the US government has on the payroll now.

If you want to believe lies and fictions to suit your prejudices, go ahead. The truth is, the Vatican isn’t rich at all.

I don’t believe that. Having been a RC for 34 years of my life, I saw first hand the evil of that false religion, almost being a statistic of my own because some renegade pedofile priest.

The system is very corrupt but most of the parishioners are honest hard working & devout people only trying to honor Christ. If you are so influencal with them, ask them to restore St. Paul’s Abby in Newton New Jersey to its full standard and allow them to run their school, farms and AAMeetings and their Retreats. It was once a guiding light for helping people in recovery and gave spirituality to the community. Now, well you can Google it. The diocese of Paterson is selling the property, contact that Bishop. Let me know your results. The area needs it restored, not sold off to developers.

 

[Silverhair]

Right, the same Jews that rejected Christ and all the New Testament Scriptures.

The Catholic Church did not consult the Jews on the Canon, read Augustine again.

“The authority of our books [Scriptures], which is confirmed by agreement of so many nations, supported by a succession of apostles, bishops, and councils, is against you.”

This is how the Canon was determined by the Catholic Church, Apostolic Tradition by Catholic Councils.

The Bible was 73 books from the beginning, it’s only when Protestants came along that they butchered and rejected parts of the Bible. The Bible which had stood the same for over 1000 years before protestants existed.

Your reasoning is circular, you want to use the RCC to prove what the RCC claims to have done.

Did I say that Augustine consulted with the Jews, NO. That's obvious or he would not have made such a dumb mistake as to include the extra biblical texts would he. He was under the delusion that the RCC could choose what books were scripture. Just one more error of the RCC.

Just because the error of the RCC existed for 1000 years does not make it right. An error is an error no matter how like it has been around.

 

[Cathode]

Your reasoning is circular, you want to use the RCC to prove what the RCC claims to have done.

Did I say that Augustine consulted with the Jews, NO. That's obvious or he would not have made such a dumb mistake as to include the extra biblical texts would he. He was under the delusion that the RCC could choose what books were scripture. Just one more error of the RCC.

Just because the error of the RCC existed for 1000 years does not make it right. An error is an error no matter how like it has been around.

The Catholic Church was the only Church, it’s claims are true and proven.

The idea of creating a Canon in the first place is an entirely Catholic idea, that’s what the Catholic Church does, it canonises things.

All the books in your 66 book bible were authenticated and determined by the Catholic Church as well.

Even protestants rely on the Authority of The Catholic Church for the authentication and determination of their Bibles, whether they know it or not, or accept it or not.

“ Without the Catholic Church, we would have no Bible “ Professor Peter Flint, Baptist translator of the Dead Sea Scrolls.

The Catholic Church is the Biblical Church.

 

[Teemo]

How can the author of a book be so opposed to the same book?

1) They reject Faith Alone
2) They reject Imputed Righteousness
3) They reject Eternal Security -- (How do you get re-saved without putting Christ back on the cross?)
4) They reject Mary had a Saviour. -- She was not born perfect. She did not die sinless Romans 3:23
5) They reject Holy By The Blood of Jesus To Enter The Presence of God -- No Purgatory Hebrew 10:19
6) They reject Repentance -- Promote not confession
7) They reject Infallible Word of Truth (66 Books) -- Pledge allegiance to the Pope
God Bless


Unity

 

[Cathode]

I don’t believe that. Having been a RC for 34 years of my life, I saw first hand the evil of that false religion, almost being a statistic of my own because some renegade pedofile priest.

The system is very corrupt but most of the parishioners are honest hard working & devout people only trying to honor Christ. If you are so influencal with them, ask them to restore St. Paul’s Abby in Newton New Jersey to its full standard and allow them to run their school, farms and AAMeetings and their Retreats. It was once a guiding light for helping people in recovery and gave spirituality to the community. Now, well you can Google it. The diocese of Paterson is selling the property, contact that Bishop. Let me know your results. The area needs it restored, not sold off to developers.

“He told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, which a man took and planted in his field. Though it is the smallest of all seeds, yet when it grows, it is the largest of garden plants and becomes a tree, so that the birds come and perch in its branches.”

The Catholic Church is so large that it even shelters its enemies in its branches. People calling it an evil and false religion, yet the enormous endless benefits the Catholic Church provides never get rejected, and are mourned the loss of.

How could an evil false religion be so beneficent everywhere, even the Catholic Church’s detractors enjoy the shade and comfort it throws out.

I remember a homeless bloke full of venom and malice against Catholics absolutely loved the food we were feeding him, told him to eat it all if he could, and to take some with him.

There is no government or institution on earth that has sheltered, fed, clothed and educated the countless millions the Catholic Church has over millennia. We still believe in works apparently, and everyone seems to have their hand out for those works. Yet we seem to deserve the label of an evil and false religion.

I can email someone about Saint Paul’s Abbey, but remember, I’m a nobody at the arse end of the planet.

 

[Silverhair]

The Catholic Church was the only Church, it’s claims are true and proven.

The idea of creating a Canon in the first place is an entirely Catholic idea, that’s what the Catholic Church does, it canonises things.

All the books in your 66 book bible were authenticated and determined by the Catholic Church as well.

Even protestants rely on the Authority of The Catholic Church for the authentication and determination of their Bibles, whether they know it or not, or accept it or not.

“ Without the Catholic Church, we would have no Bible “ Professor Peter Flint, Baptist translator of the Dead Sea Scrolls.

The Catholic Church is the Biblical Church.

There you go with your circular reasoning again. You are trusting in the questionable RCC to tell you the truth. But in reality they have not.

The Muratorian Canon (also called the Muratorian Fragment) is an ancient list of New Testament books—the oldest such list we have found. The original document, which was probably written in Greek, is dated to about AD 180 and lists 22 of the 27 books that were later included in the New Testament of the Christian Bible.

This means that, within 150 years of Jesus’ death and resurrection, the core writings that were later included in the New Testament were already deemed authoritative by early Christians. These books present a unified doctrinal message on the person of Christ and His atoning work on the cross.

Determining the canon was a process conducted first by Jewish rabbis and scholars and later by early Christians. Ultimately, it was God who decided what books belonged in the biblical canon. A book of Scripture belonged in the canon from the moment God inspired its writing.

For the New Testament, the process of the recognition and collection began in the first centuries of the Christian church. Very early on, some of the New Testament books were being recognized. Paul considered Luke’s writings to be as authoritative as the Old Testament (1 Timothy 5:18; see also Deuteronomy 25:4 and Luke 10:7). Peter recognized Paul’s writings as Scripture (2 Peter 3:15-16). Some of the books of the New Testament were being circulated among the churches (Colossians 4:16; 1 Thessalonians 5:27). Clement of Rome mentioned at least eight New Testament books (A.D. 95). Polycarp, a disciple of John the apostle, acknowledged 15 books (A.D. 108). Ignatius of Antioch acknowledged about seven books (A.D. 115). Later, Irenaeus mentioned 21 books (A.D. 185). Hippolytus recognized 22 books (A.D. 170-235). The New Testament books receiving the most controversy were Hebrews, James, 2 Peter, 2 John, and 3 John.

It is the RCC fantasy that they compiled the canon but history shows their error.

 

[Silverhair]

“He told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, which a man took and planted in his field. Though it is the smallest of all seeds, yet when it grows, it is the largest of garden plants and becomes a tree, so that the birds come and perch in its branches.”

The Catholic Church is so large that it even shelters its enemies in its branches. People calling it an evil and false religion, yet the enormous endless benefits the Catholic Church provides never get rejected, and are mourned the loss of.

How could an evil false religion be so beneficent everywhere, even the Catholic Church’s detractors enjoy the shade and comfort it throws out.

I remember a homeless bloke full of venom and malice against Catholics absolutely loved the food we were feeding him, told him to eat it all if he could, and to take some with him.

There is no government or institution on earth that has sheltered, fed, clothed and educated the countless millions the Catholic Church has over millennia. We still believe in works apparently, and everyone seems to have their hand out for those works. Yet we seem to deserve the label of an evil and false religion.

I’ll can email someone about Saint Paul’s Abbey, but remember, I’m a nobody at the arse end of the planet.

How convenient that you overlook the horrors that your RCC have perpetrated on the world.

Do you really think that organization is the only one that has helped the poor, the hurting? From what you write you seem to think those the RCC helps actually owe them something.

I think Christ described the RCC quite well here Matthew 23:27. All fancy cloths and glitter covering up the rot inside. The RCC for to long has coverup the sins of their priests and sins of the RCC overall.

 

[Cathode]

There you go with your circular reasoning again. You are trusting in the questionable RCC to tell you the truth. But in reality they have not.

The Muratorian Canon (also called the Muratorian Fragment) is an ancient list of New Testament books—the oldest such list we have found. The original document, which was probably written in Greek, is dated to about AD 180 and lists 22 of the 27 books that were later included in the New Testament of the Christian Bible.

This means that, within 150 years of Jesus’ death and resurrection, the core writings that were later included in the New Testament were already deemed authoritative by early Christians. These books present a unified doctrinal message on the person of Christ and His atoning work on the cross.

Determining the canon was a process conducted first by Jewish rabbis and scholars and later by early Christians. Ultimately, it was God who decided what books belonged in the biblical canon. A book of Scripture belonged in the canon from the moment God inspired its writing.

For the New Testament, the process of the recognition and collection began in the first centuries of the Christian church. Very early on, some of the New Testament books were being recognized. Paul considered Luke’s writings to be as authoritative as the Old Testament (1 Timothy 5:18; see also Deuteronomy 25:4 and Luke 10:7). Peter recognized Paul’s writings as Scripture (2 Peter 3:15-16). Some of the books of the New Testament were being circulated among the churches (Colossians 4:16; 1 Thessalonians 5:27). Clement of Rome mentioned at least eight New Testament books (A.D. 95). Polycarp, a disciple of John the apostle, acknowledged 15 books (A.D. 108). Ignatius of Antioch acknowledged about seven books (A.D. 115). Later, Irenaeus mentioned 21 books (A.D. 185). Hippolytus recognized 22 books (A.D. 170-235). The New Testament books receiving the most controversy were Hebrews, James, 2 Peter, 2 John, and 3 John.

It is the RCC fantasy that they compiled the canon but history shows their error.

You mean the muratorian writing that says this.

“For the blessed apostle Paul himself, following the rule of his predecessor John, writes only by name to seven Churches in the following order–to the Corinthians afirst…there is a second to the Corinthians and to the Thessalonians, yet one Church is recognized as being spread over the entire world…Howbeit to Philemon one, to Titus one, and to Timothy two were put in writing…to be in honour however with the Catholic Church for the ordering of ecclesiastical discipline…one to the Laodicenes, another to the Alexandrians, both forged in Paul’s name to suit the heresy of Marcion, and several others, which cannot be received into the Catholic Church; for it is not fitting that gall be mixed with honey. The Epistle of Jude no doubt, and the couple bearing the name of John, are accepted by the Catholic Church…But of Arsinous, called also Valentinus, or of Militiades we receive nothing at all.” The fragment of Muratori (A.D. 177).

This is the tradition of the Catholic Church ordering and maintaining its books, these Muratori writings only come down to us through the Catholic Church.

This is the Catholic Church authenticating and determining the Canon with Catholic Apostolic Tradition.

Mate, I’ve never encountered someone kick so many own goals.

 

[Silverhair]

You mean the muratorian writing that says this.

“For the blessed apostle Paul himself, following the rule of his predecessor John, writes only by name to seven Churches in the following order–to the Corinthians afirst…there is a second to the Corinthians and to the Thessalonians, yet one Church is recognized as being spread over the entire world…Howbeit to Philemon one, to Titus one, and to Timothy two were put in writing…to be in honour however with the Catholic Church for the ordering of ecclesiastical discipline…one to the Laodicenes, another to the Alexandrians, both forged in Paul’s name to suit the heresy of Marcion, and several others, which cannot be received into the Catholic Church; for it is not fitting that gall be mixed with honey. The Epistle of Jude no doubt, and the couple bearing the name of John, are accepted by the Catholic Church…But of Arsinous, called also Valentinus, or of Militiades we receive nothing at all.” The fragment of Muratori (A.D. 177).

This is the tradition of the Catholic Church ordering and maintaining its books, these Muratori writings only come down to us through the Catholic Church.

This is the Catholic Church authenticating and determining the Canon with Catholic Apostolic Tradition.

Mate, I’ve never encountered someone kick so many own goals.

I have never met someone so set in defending error as you. You continue to show just how much you ignore history. You want to elevate that false system over God, that is so sad.

God set His canon not your church or any other man made institution. I can see that truth does not make a dent in your false beliefs.

Are you going to deny this truth?
Determining the canon was a process conducted first by Jewish rabbis and scholars and later by early Christians. Ultimately, it was God who decided what books belonged in the biblical canon. A book of Scripture belonged in the canon from the moment God inspired its writing.

 

[Cathode]

I have never met someone so set in defending error as you. You continue to show just how much you ignore history. You want to elevate that false system over God, that is so sad.

God set His canon not your church or any other man made institution. I can see that truth does not make a dent in your false beliefs.

Are you going to deny this truth?
Determining the canon was a process conducted first by Jewish rabbis and scholars and later by early Christians. Ultimately, it was God who decided what books belonged in the biblical canon. A book of Scripture belonged in the canon from the moment God inspired its writing.

No. The work of determining the Canon was all done by the Catholic Church inspired by God as the Church founded by Christ Himself.
And without reference to the Jews or anyone else.

Professor Peter Flint was a very smart Baptist scholar, in the face of all the evidence he was intellectually honest enough to accept the facts, God rest him.

Catholics are the pre Bible Church that established the Bible.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

“He told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, which a man took and planted in his field. Though it is the smallest of all seeds, yet when it grows, it is the largest of garden plants and becomes a tree, so that the birds come and perch in its branches.”

The Catholic Church is so large that it even shelters its enemies in its branches. People calling it an evil and false religion, yet the enormous endless benefits the Catholic Church provides never get rejected, and are mourned the loss of.

How could an evil false religion be so beneficent everywhere, even the Catholic Church’s detractors enjoy the shade and comfort it throws out.

I remember a homeless bloke full of venom and malice against Catholics absolutely loved the food we were feeding him, told him to eat it all if he could, and to take some with him.

There is no government or institution on earth that has sheltered, fed, clothed and educated the countless millions the Catholic Church has over millennia. We still believe in works apparently, and everyone seems to have their hand out for those works. Yet we seem to deserve the label of an evil and false religion.

I can email someone about Saint Paul’s Abbey, but remember, I’m a nobody at the arse end of the planet.

Don’t bother

 

[Mikey]