Quick-and-Dirty Calvinism

We've already answered you many times Bob.
You just like to hear yourself talk....

You havn't answered me yet...

What about God HATING the Wicked?

 

Bob reminds me of a little old lady I once heard about. The new pastor moved to town and was told right from the beginning - you've got to meet Mrs. Smith - She's amazing - She's never said anything bad about anybody.

The new pastor thought he would get her to slip up - so in their conversation one day he asked, "Mrs. Smith, what do you think about the Devil?"

She frowned a little then her face lit up in a smile and she replied, "Well Pastor, you've really got to admire his persistance!"

You can say that about Bob.

 

Another one....

Bob reminds me of a little kitten that has climbed so far up in the tree that he is afraid to come down.

Don't worry Bob, the Firetruck is here.

All you've got to do is turn loose.

 

Hardsheller -- Ahother one...another one...

(But not an actual address of any of the scriptures raised here???)

1. So far Edwards agrees WITH the BIBLE that the saints ARE viewing the torment of the wicked -- but you (Hardsheller) do not and then you blame ME for pointing out this Bible fact.

What kind of retreat is that? I don't recognize it.

------------

2. Jesus never said that husband and wife will not LOVE EACH OTHER in heaven -- so you "make it up".

3. I point out that "what you are making UP" is a case of TWO SAINTS who BOTH go to heaven - NOT LOVING EACH OTHER!!! (this is just another "detail" that you gloss over in your anything-for-calvinism reponse tactic adopted recently).

How instructive.

#4. The CFS is actually talking about those IN HEAVEN (saved Parents) having the SAME compassion for the lost that SCRIPTURE ALREADY SHOWS about God! (you ignore all the scriptures dealing with that "of course").

IT shows that AS RC and all mankind would "expect" the saints are MORE LIKE the God of the Bible in heaven rather than LESS! (Big shock to some Calvinists here)


#4. I SHOW that 1Cor 13 predicts that the saints will CONTINUE to LOVE (only MORE SO) because the LOVE they have is what DOES NOT STOP according to 1Cor 13.

Another unhappy text for several Calvinists here.

#5. You (Hardsheller) yourself ADMITTED that the saved Parent would be HORRIFIED and shocked to SEE what Edwards and RC and I and the Bible CLAIM they will see.

(But of course -- that is all "my" fault now isn't it Hardsheller? After all why not GLOSS OVER any inconvenient facts in pursuit of "anything-for-Calvinism"???)

As I have said already -- you guys can surely do better than this.

Where are all the bright Calvinists??

In Christ,

Bob

 

Oooops I am sorry I thought I addressed that...

Lament over Jerusalem

God is sorrowful and GRIEVES for the lost and for the fact that He has done so much to win them - yet they TURN away.

God’s Spirit is grieved by the rebellion of His CHOSEN people His HOLY nation His ROYAL priesthood. Yes even by the LOST among them – even the worst among them.

ALL of God’s Compassion is stirred up within Him over the finally lost!

</font>[/QUOTE]Oh yeah -- that's right I ALREADY posted these scriptures and the Calvinists "ignored all the Bible texts posted"!!

How "unnexpected" to see them gloss over it all.

Well then have I got more texts for Calvinists to ignore!


For God so LOVED the WORLD that HE GAVE HIS ONLY begotten Son - that WHOEVER believes in Him SHOULD NOT PERISH". John 3:16

God SO loved the world that - "HE is NOT WILLING for ANY to perish but for ALL to come to repentance" 2Peter 3:8 - and so He extends THIS LIFE

God SO LOVED the World that "HE CALLS ALL MEN everywhere to REPENT" Acts 17:30

God so LOVED the World that "HE died for OUR SINS and NOT for our sins ONLY but for those of the WHOLE WORLD" 1John 2:2

What a great Bible!!

Praise God HE LOVES and when people refuse the Gospel of their salvation HE WEEPS like WE would for those WE cared for!!

How embarrassing for Calvinists.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Edwards does not take the same position you take nor does anyone else I have ever read.

Christian Parents in Heaven do not mourn their lost Children. This is the premise of your ill-fated and ill-conceived scenario. It is patently false and unBiblical.

All you have to do is say - "I Was Wrong!" and we'll forgive you just as God does.

 

All you've proved is that God weeps. Taken verses (out of context by the way) and applied eisogesis to them and think they EXPLAIN the verse...

I'm not asking you to explain those verses, I'm asking you to explain "God HATES the WICKED"... What does THAT verse mean? ...

As for the other verses, you know as well as I do those verses have been explained ad nausium but you fail to recognize the proper exegesis of them because they do not agree with your biased presuppositions.

 

1. You denied that Parents will SEE the torment of their lost children. Do you now deny -- denying that? (in the never ending shell game of antything-goes-for-calvinism)???

2. The Love that Christians have today WILL NOT END at the second coming but it is the ONE THING that GOES ON -- into eternity according to 1Cor 13 -- do you deny that now as well?

3. Edwards claimed the saints will see ALL the wicked being tormented not "everyone but those they care about" -- do you deny reading that "now"??? (in the never ending shell game of antything-goes-for-calvinism)???

4. God ClAIMS HE weeps over the lost -- Do you deny reading that "NOW"???


5. RC claimed that the saints will be MORE LIKE GOD in heaven NOT LESS (I claimed the same thing). Do you DENY THAT?? (in the never ending shell game of antything-goes-for-calvinism)???


6. Your previous non-stop diatribe was against the EDWARDS idea that Rev 14 shows the WICKED being in the presence of God and VIEWED by the RIGHTEOUS as they are in torment. (For the RIGHTEOUS are always WITH CHRIST). Do you now deny your own diatribe??? (in the never ending shell game of antything-goes-for-calvinism)???

7. The CFS BEGINS with the point that Calvinism MUST HAVE the LUXURY of heartless cold disconcern for the lost in the end -- and then it shows REJOICING of the parent in the "all for ME ME ME" model of Calvinism. Do you now AGREE WITH THAT???

8. YOU claimed that if Parents were to SEE the torment of their OWN children it would be a shock!! Do you now deny that??? (in the never ending shell game of antything-goes-for-calvinism)???


Is this where you get back to paying attention to the details?

In Christ,

Bob

 

More like God in Heaven...

I HATE the evildoers.... We will HATE the evildoers. You can not explain this verse... I want what THIS means. Do you think God's emotions and charactor is as shallow as yours?
Where does it say "directly" that we will have sorrow in heaven? Or crying? Or anything else BUT gloryfing God in heaven ! You can't. All you do is misapply scriputre and interject it.

You SERIOUSLY need to take a hermeneutics class.

 

I describe them SEEING as Edwards says they SEE.

What "other sense" did you want to use??

YOU DESCRIBED them as IN SHOCK if they should SEE it. How did you want to fudge on that confession now?

You argee that they WILL BE getting many chuckles over seeing their loved ones tormented INSTEAD of being SHOCKED as YOU said they would be before??

(Just want to know if this is the flip - or the flop on your part)

This was "seems" incredibly obvious. But with Calvinists one is always tasked with stating "the obvious".

Innexplicably you cling to that idea of TWO SAINTS in heaven STILL LOVING each other but not being married as a way to say that A parent STILL LOVING A CHILD will get their jollies watching that SAME child tormented in hell.

What "KIND" of Love were you thinking of in 1Cor 13. Does that "joy in torment of child" KIND of love for children show up in 1Cor 13?? Did I miss it??

(You wonder sometimes how many shells will be needed in Calvinism's endless shell game to protect it from exposure to "The obvious")

OK so now after ranting that the Bible does NOT support the idea of the saints SEEING their children suffer in hell - you will now recant and join Edwards in finding GREAT JOY over that as you LOVE those children in that truly "different kind of way" in the future!!

How "instructive" that this innexplicable twist of logic should be turned to in the all-for-calvinism-defense of yours.

In any case - you seem to be signing on to Edwards statements - at least that is "something".

I gave quotes from BOTH OT and NT showing the sorrow of God as HE says "ALL MY compassions are turned within Me... OH HOW CAN I give you up?!!"

Will we be MORE LIKE Christ in His concern for the lost OR LESS like Christ -- in heaven?

We really ARE making some headway here!! So when God SAYS He has great compassion for the lost and weeps over them -- THIS IS the "UNCHANGING GOD" that the saints will be MORE like in heaven -- correct??

Easy point - just want to make sure you are staying with the point.

If I said anything about "wringing" I did not mean to (in fact I am sure I did not).

I just quoted the text that you now "claim" to accept. That He weeps over them. That "ALL HIS COMPASSIONS" are stirred up over them. Do you believe God is capable of Compassion Hardsheller?

Surely you do!!

How much then is "ALL His compassion"??

Are you arguing that God can go ahead and weep over the lost AND have compassion over them AND the saints can be MORE LIKE GOD then than they are today ---- but... PARENTs will never WEEP and have compassion THEN as they would EVEN TODAY -- nor as God says HE HAS??

Ahh - back to "nonsensical" all-for-calvinism "anyway"!!

Wonderful!! The world is still as I thought it was!!

and that is joined with ...

Having agreed with EDwards that they DO See their children burning and having repudiated your OWN claim that IF they saw it they would be shocked - you now ALSO repudiate "if they saw it they would have joy as EDWARDS claims".

Hmm - you seem to be "confuseder"

OK so NOW you insist that the parents WOULD WEEP just as God says HE weeps IF The parents were to SEE what Edwards and Rev 14:10 say they will see?????

(This is exactly what the CFS ALLOWS them to do! But only for an instant before zapping them back into Calvinism)

If you had just taken ONE position and stuck with it your contradictions would have been fewer.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Is this a response to one of the texts I gave you -- or is this a continuation of your efforts to gloss over them??

IN Christ,

Bob

 

Hello Bob.

He is terrible that rc is! I bet Esau's laughing his socks off. And him thinking God can hate? Jacob I loved Esau I loved has a little bit of magic about it don't you think?

john.

 

I "hate" going to work, but I still drive there.

I "hate" brussel sprouts, but if I put them in my mouth and chew them, I have accepted them.

I "hate" pink shirts, but I can still put one on.

The whole "Jacob I loved, Esau I hated" argument is a weak one. The word "hate" could also be described as "despised" or "detested".

 

Hello webdog.

Why, because it is scripture?

Are you a Calvinist? Don't mean love tho does it? Anyway Jacob and Esau stands way stronger than this: The word "hate" could also be described as "despised" or "detested". Because that is what God thinks of Esau ain't it? That is what is being said by the Calvinists. God despises, or detests Esau ain't it? Never mind the Calvinists, God says it! Romans 9:13 Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."

To Hell with work I say! God hates work as well!

I would say you have eaten them. I love them with a little malt vinegar and squishy. Don't tell anyone that I eat veg as everyone believes I live on Mars bars.

Can you? I shall pray all the harder for you brother. Bet you wouldn't wear one and come with me to watch Millwall play soccer. I wouldn't go with you.

john.

 

Just as it is written:
Just as it is written:
Just as it is written:
"Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."

Romans 9:13.

 

It is a statement made in Malachi LONG AFTER the death of BOTH and BASED on the STATED history of the rebellion of one group and the obedience of another.

More like hatred of their deeds - SINCE WE KNOW that God "WEEPS" over the lost saying "I Have NO pleasure in the death of ANYONE".

But if you are prone to taking a snip and paste approach you could ignore the source in Malachi and "pretend" God was speaking of Esau not Edom where HE specifically mentiones their rebellion!!

In Christ,

Bob

 

So you try to win your case by telling us that God did not hate one man but a tribe! Brilliant Bob boy, brilliant!

john.

 

Bob,

You're the first Arminian I've ever met who claimed to completely understand the Revelation so much so that you actually claim to know conclusively What God will be like, what He will do and when He will do it and who he will do it with and How He will feel about it.

You're amazing!

Like I said...Write a Book. Why waste your vast knowledge on us peons here on the BB?

I stand by all my denials of your convoluted scenario or fable. It ranks right up there with Tim LaHaye's Left Behind fiction!