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Real Soteriology 101

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DaveXR650

Well-Known Member
SaveByGrace.I thought my last post might help you out because I fear that sometimes Calvinists make it seem like you just exist and then at some point discover you are saved. If you don't want to go to Edwards then please suggest someone. And don't say the Bible because we are all looking at the same scripture. Was Edwards not looking at the Bible? Are all Calvinists not worthy to be listened to automatically? What about Spurgeon? I was introduced to Spurgeon by reading Sword of the Lord in the late 70's. I guess they shouldn't have printed anything from him.
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Have you not read Acts 2:37? after Peter preached the Gospel, those who heard him were "cut to the heart". What was their response? "What must we DO", to which Peter did not say, "DO nothing", because God has done the believing for you, which is the idiotic way that the "reformed" tell us. Peter clearly says, "REPENT...FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF YOUR SINS" (verse 38). This REPENTING is what these sinners had to DO.

Strange how for someone that wants to be a teacher of us all that you do not know that if a person has faith then they will repent and if they repent it is because they have faith. Do you really think you have to see the word repent every time or else they did not repent. So by your logic since the word faith/believe is not in those verses that means they did not have to believe.
 

37818

Well-Known Member
Basic soteriology is summed up in Romans 10:13-15, "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!"
 

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
LOL read any credible commentary on the greek constructs and you will see. Do some research.

Hey it is you who is trying to teach me Greek grammar. If you can't give your own response from the Greek then just say so. I can tell you 100% that the Greek does not support your theory
 
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SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Strange how for someone that wants to be a teacher of us all that you do not know that if a person has faith then they will repent and if they repent it is because they have faith. Do you really think you have to see the word repent every time or else they did not repent. So by your logic since the word faith/believe is not in those verses that means they did not have to believe.

Your comments are laughable as I am not interested in teaching anyone! You can't grasp what I have written :eek:
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
To say that the gift is not "grace through faith" is to ignore the grammatical construct of the passage.

Perhaps these comments will help clear up your confusion.

Salvation - the Gift from God Eph_2:8-9 By Dr. William Mounce

For centuries, Bible commentators have differed on the precise reference of the pronoun “that” in Eph_2:8. Does “that” (touto G5124) refer to faith, as many have stated (e.g., Augustine, Chrysostom, Westcott, Lenski, etc.), or, does “that” refer to salvation from sin? Is faith “the gift of God,” or is this gift salvation by grace through faith?

Admittedly, from a cursory reading of Eph_2:8, it may appear that the relative pronoun that has faith as its grammatical antecedent. Those who believe that faith is a gift (i.e., miraculous imposition) from God, often point out that in this verse “faith” is the nearest antecedent of “that” (“For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God”). However, when one examines Eph_2:8 in the language in which it was written originally (Greek), he finds that the pronoun that G5124 (touto) is neuter in gender, while the word faith G4102 (pistis) is feminine. Since the general rule in Greek grammar is for the gender and number of a relative pronoun to be the same as its antecedent {Mounce, 1993, p. 111}, then some extenuating linguistic circumstance, special idiomatic use, or other mitigating factor would need to be demonstrated to justify linking “that” to “faith.” If such reasonable justification cannot be made, then one is compelled to continue studying the passage in order to know assuredly what “that” gift of God is.

https://www.apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=6&article=1246



The overall context of the first three chapters of Ephesians is man’s salvation found in Christ.

  • “In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace” (Eph_1:7).

  • The heavenly “inheritance” is found in Christ (Eph_1:11).

  • After believing in the good news of salvation through Christ, the Ephesians were “sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise” (Eph_1:13).

  • Sinners are made “alive with Christ” and saved “by grace” (Eph_2:5).

  • Sinners are brought near to God “by the blood of Christ” (Eph_2:13).

  • Paul became a servant of Christ “according to the gift of the grace of God…by the effective working of His power” (Eph_3:7).
Not only is the theme of salvation the overall context of the first three chapters of Ephesians, but the immediate context of Eph_2:8-9 is of salvation, not of faith. Paul is talking about HOW A PERSON IS SAVED. The main idea of the sentence is found in the verb phrase "you have been saved" G4982. How is a person saved? Eph_2:8-9 answers this key question.
 

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Perhaps these comments will help clear up your confusion.

Salvation - the Gift from God Eph_2:8-9 By Dr. William Mounce

For centuries, Bible commentators have differed on the precise reference of the pronoun “that” in Eph_2:8. Does “that” (touto G5124) refer to faith, as many have stated (e.g., Augustine, Chrysostom, Westcott, Lenski, etc.), or, does “that” refer to salvation from sin? Is faith “the gift of God,” or is this gift salvation by grace through faith?

Admittedly, from a cursory reading of Eph_2:8, it may appear that the relative pronoun that has faith as its grammatical antecedent. Those who believe that faith is a gift (i.e., miraculous imposition) from God, often point out that in this verse “faith” is the nearest antecedent of “that” (“For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God”). However, when one examines Eph_2:8 in the language in which it was written originally (Greek), he finds that the pronoun that G5124 (touto) is neuter in gender, while the word faith G4102 (pistis) is feminine. Since the general rule in Greek grammar is for the gender and number of a relative pronoun to be the same as its antecedent {Mounce, 1993, p. 111}, then some extenuating linguistic circumstance, special idiomatic use, or other mitigating factor would need to be demonstrated to justify linking “that” to “faith.” If such reasonable justification cannot be made, then one is compelled to continue studying the passage in order to know assuredly what “that” gift of God is.

https://www.apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=6&article=1246



The overall context of the first three chapters of Ephesians is man’s salvation found in Christ.

  • “In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace” (Eph_1:7).

  • The heavenly “inheritance” is found in Christ (Eph_1:11).

  • After believing in the good news of salvation through Christ, the Ephesians were “sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise” (Eph_1:13).

  • Sinners are made “alive with Christ” and saved “by grace” (Eph_2:5).

  • Sinners are brought near to God “by the blood of Christ” (Eph_2:13).

  • Paul became a servant of Christ “according to the gift of the grace of God…by the effective working of His power” (Eph_3:7).
Not only is the theme of salvation the overall context of the first three chapters of Ephesians, but the immediate context of Eph_2:8-9 is of salvation, not of faith. Paul is talking about HOW A PERSON IS SAVED. The main idea of the sentence is found in the verb phrase "you have been saved" G4982. How is a person saved? Eph_2:8-9 answers this key question.

Maybe Reformed1689 can learn some real Greek grammar from this :Biggrin
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
If you have to do something before being granted salvation, something you do without God, that is a salvation of works.

So now you are disagreeing with God. Scripture was given to us so that we can know of Christ Jesus and believe and thus have life in Him.
Joh 20:31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Well seeing as how we cannot be righteous on our own, that is exactly what it says. God declares us righteous based on HIS merit, based on HIS grace. It is nothing we do Van.
Yet another utterly false claim. Our faith is not righteous, it does not merit salvation. How many times are Calvinists going to be allowed to hoist this canard? First they say because of total spiritual inability no lost person can seek God and trust in Christ. Then they say if we do it is a works salvation directly misrepresenting Romans 4:16. On and on folks. Calvinism rewrites not a verse here and there but dozens of them. Your faith means not your faith, through faith means not through faith, chosen for salvation through faith in the truth means not chosen for salvation through faith in the truth... I kid you not...
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I did not insult you. You need to do some study in that lexicon again. You ignored completely the primary definition of the words in question. It is not by reason of.
Your doctrine rewrites dozen of verses but you completely ignore these primary messages of truth.
 

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
Yet another utterly false claim. Our faith is not righteous, it does not merit salvation. How many times are Calvinists going to be allowed to hoist this canard? First they say because of total spiritual inability no lost person can seek God and trust in Christ. Then they say if we do it is a works salvation directly misrepresenting Romans 4:16. On and on folks. Calvinism rewrites not a verse here and there but dozens of them. Your faith means not your faith, through faith means not through faith, chosen for salvation through faith in the truth means not chosen for salvation through faith in the truth... I kid you not...
I'm starting to think you don't understand basic English because you always twist everything I say into something I did not even come close to saying.
 
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