Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Which was my point to you earlier. I asked you why did you start this thread. It's obvious you did to try and deceive others into your false theories. You were never looking for "answers", your mind was already made up. I would suggest that this thread be closed and travelsong be banned from the BB.
Which was my point to you earlier. I asked you why did you start this thread. It's obvious you did to try and deceive others into your false theories. You were never looking for "answers", your mind was already made up. I would suggest that this thread be closed and travelsong be banned from the BB. </font>[/QUOTE]I never deceived anyone, I merely came to the conclusion that god as he is presented in the Bible and Christian theology is evil, and have been consistent in my presentation from the start. I asked others here to help reconcile my conclusions and to this point no one has. It really is as simple as that.
Why have you not once made an attempt to answer the objections I've presented? If my thinking is wrong, you might at least demonstrate how it is wrong. Is that too much to ask?
Which was my point to you earlier. I asked you why did you start this thread. It's obvious you did to try and deceive others into your false theories. You were never looking for "answers", your mind was already made up. I would suggest that this thread be closed and travelsong be banned from the BB. </font>[/QUOTE]I never deceived anyone, I merely came to the conclusion that god as he is presented in the Bible and Christian theology is evil, and have been consistent in my presentation from the start. I asked others here to help reconcile my conclusions and to this point no one has. It really is as simple as that.
17For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
How so?
Did you not read what I wrote a few posts earlier?
Did you not read what I wrote a few posts earlier?
Your questions are very easy to answer. Trying to convince a person who has no room for learning is like trying to convince a blind man of sight. You are so blind you cannot see even the obvious. From what I see your own way is without proof other than to ask loads of questions out of ignorance and without much thought. Do some thinking and then come back with some intelligent questions. Your questions are like a wild goose chase--a lot of running and feathers with little substance.
Your questions are very easy to answer. Trying to convince a person who has no room for learning is like trying to convince a blind man of sight. You are so blind you cannot see even the obvious. From what I see your own way is without proof other than to ask loads of questions out of ignorance and without much thought. Do some thinking and then come back with some intelligent questions. Your questions are like a wild goose chase--a lot of running and feathers with little substance. </font>[/QUOTE]Then feel free to demonstrate why my arguments are of such little consequence. So far all I see are unsupported accusations.
… god … is evil …
The concept of god as manifest by a large percentage of Christian theology, yes.
That particular god which I reject due to inherent contradictions and impossibilities, yes. I do indeed doubt his existence. Those doctrines of the Christian god which genuinely reflect the human experience may very well point to the existence of a true god or some other transcendant phenomenon. I have no reason to deny or confirm belief in such a being or event. I trust if god really exists, he will accept me just fine for my deeds and efforts.
Very true. I have weighed all of the evidence and knowledge culled from my 30 years on this planet and my mind is pretty firmly set.
Most people throughout the history of mankind have accepted god as fact.
What religion could be so firmly implanted in the mind without such concrete absolutes? These sorts of exclusive proclamations are what define every major religion.
That's why I have no explanation for the fact that most of my life I had no problem reconciling the all loving god that we focus most on with his sometimes cruel and often ambivalent nature as it is portrayed in the Bible. I never looked or desired to view god that way. I always blocked those thoughts and ignored or explained away the most gruesome portions of scripture. I just can't do that anymore.
Why? Because it says so? Just like lots and lots of other religions?
I have no reason to be profane. I certainly haven't got many (if any)of the answers. Life is alot more complex than I had believed until recently. I'm okay with that.
I have no reason to hate god. Even if he is the god you worship. I am what I am and he's just gonna have to deal with that.
You guys continually quote the most widely known pillars of the Christian faith as if I am not intimately aware of them or didn't at one time accept them as reality.
Well lay them out for me in such a way as to show my objections as frivilous or incorrect.
#1. Eternal damnation is the fate of those who reject the way God presents. Your complaint is like the one who whines "Why is it I must take the fireman's way out of this burning building anyway? Why can't I just stay here and mind my own business. THe fire should just mind its own business and let me relax a while".
I refer again to the "door of escape in the burning building" and those who would whine that they should not have to take it.
Clearly you did not read my post on Romans 2 that fully refutes your assumption that not having access to the text of the Gospel would disqualify someone from heaven.
You are just not reading. God did not create a world of pain and suffering and neither did He (according to HEb 1 and Job 1 and 2) create JUST ONE world. He is the ruler of the entire universe and the "Free will" question is respected in the system HE created.
You are not reading. In 2Cor 4:4 and in Eph 2:1-3 (and in Matt 4 and in Job 1) it is shown that Satan is the "god of this world" in that he has been given its dominion. Note that he offers to give that back to Christ in Matt 4. So although God Himself is supreme over all - there is a set of rules, a system that is real that is enforced by God and that shows "consequences" for mankind choose the serpent over the Creator.
That is good news and bad news.
Not that you are reading - but...
Everyone is always claiming to have satisfactorily addressed my arguments, yet I never see any direct answers. Why is that?
Of course you didn't, you're hundreds of miles away.
Okay then, exactly what way does god present to people? What is the minimum that a man must believe or do to save himself?
What does it matter if God destroys me or tortures me forever? Why should I be concerned with either theological position when both are equally unreasonable?
Clearly you've never layed out exactly what a mug is supposed to do to understand and rectify his horrendous predicament.
How did you get here?
You mean that system where god is infinitely knowledgable of every facet of his creation and at the same time governs every law of our existence, yet still managed to give us the ability to condemn ourselves without the knowledge that we would choose to do so?
Do you mean to say that you have chosen perfection now? Does your god belief make you a better person than I?
Here's where we complete the transfer of responsibility from god to man and finally to Satan. So Satan is the first deceiver.
Feel free to take my questions from the last post point for point.
Define Freewill.
We must be missing something here in the translation. I am saying it is like a fireman standing at the door or escape and telling everyone in the burning building to come safely outside of the burning building.
We must be missing something here in the translation. I am saying it is like a fireman standing at the door or escape and telling everyone in the burning building to come safely outside of the burning building.
Many people have sacrifices their lives for a loved one, in war, or simply died of old age. I know of no one who facing death said "I would just as soon be tortured forever".
Many people have sacrifices their lives for a loved one, in war, or simply died of old age. I know of no one who facing death said "I would just as soon be tortured forever".
IN the beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth -- "For in Six days the Lord Created the Heavens and the earth the sea and all that is in them" -- "and God saw that it was Good".
I agree you are born sinful and fallen and doomed due to the choice of our first parents Adam and Eve. As we all are. But God does not simply say "too bad". God comes to this world and is tortured on the cross and dies for all the sins of all the world. He takes all of our guilt on himself and pays for it all!