Response to: "I have become an agnostic" thread

[Bro. James]

Sin is genetic indeed. We are born sinners, not born sinning, but with the nature to sin--just like a duck is born to quack--it does it naturally--not a learned trait.

It is written: "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned;", Romans 5:12. See also vss. 13-21, the law of sin and death.

One has got to see the law of sin and death before the perfect law of liberty makes sense.

Back to square one.

Selah,

Bro. James

 

[Travelsong]

Originally posted by Bro. James:
Sin is genetic indeed.

Can we locate the position of sin in our DNA? Perhaps even fix it?

Further, if god creates me with a genetic defect over which I have no control, why should he hold me accountable for it?

Why is god in the business of creating people to disobey him in the first place?

Why is the Bible concerned with spiritual life when the problem lies in the physical realm?

The killing blow: Prior to Adam's fall, if there was no sinful genetic defect, where did his sin originate?

How about incorporeal beings who rebelled? Where did their sin originate?

 

[Bro. James]

Hasty counter point to cojosh: Adam was a free moral agent until he disobeyed God, when Adam's ability to choose became enslaved to the depravity of his new nature. This depraved nature has been passed to every member of the human kind--our wills are enslaved to our depraved natures as well. Now what? "Behold the Lamb of God..."

God is not a free-will agent. He is HOLY, HOLY, HOLY. He is not tempted with sin, does not tempt anyone with sin. He cannot sin--by nature. Neither could Jesus--God in the flesh.

Sorry, this may be two counter points. They certainly go together.

Selah,

Bro. James

 

[Travelsong]

So why should god hold me accountable for something he's enslaved me to?

 

[Bro. James]

God did not create original sin. Our genepool is from the loins of the first man--Adam.

The DNA for evil may not have been isolated yet, but the fact of it has certainly been evident for several millenia. Mankind is depraved, and it is getting worse. Can we blame it on God? Do you think this will stand up on the day of judgement?

Now what?

Selah,

Bro. James

 

[Travelsong]

So my spirit is still pure and holy? How about the incorporeal bodies of the fallen angels?

I thought the idea was that sin twisted and bent our will, not that it forced us to disobey god through a physical malady. Do not the angels have wills without DNA?

Do you deny that god created me in my sinful state?

 

[Bro. James]

What is it which causes you to believe you are sinful? Such a notion is not found in Psyc. 101.

Selah,

Bro. James

 

[lovepeacehappiness]

I have read this entire thread, and the Spirit is burning within me and just like Jeremiah, I can't contain it! Travelsong, you are in the clutches of SATAN! You need to get down on your knees and beg him to forgive you! ALL OF CREATION PROCLAIMS HIS GLORY! HOW CAN YOU DOUBT! If you are even reading books by those evolutionists who want to kill GOD and are the minions of the DEVIL HIMSELF then you need to REPENT! You never had the SPIRIT within you or you could never turn your back on him! You better be careful or you are going to commit the one unpardonable sin and then you will NEVER be able to avoid the fires of HELL! You are in the WORLD, and if you love the world and the VAIN philosophers then you can't love GOD! You have no business studying those books that will BLIND YOU TO THE TRUTH OF JESUS CHRIST WHO SHED HIS BLOOD FOR YOU ON CALVARY! HALLELUJAH! I AM WASHED IN THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB OF GOD! I pray that GOD doesn't strike you down before you have the chance to BEG FOR MERCY!!!! HE has the right to do whatever he pleases with HIS creation! If HE wants to destroy all of Jericho and the women and children in it, it's HIS right! HE ALONE can decide their fates! WHO ARE YOU TO QUESTION THE ALMIGHTY RULER OF THE UNIVERSE! I will be praying that GOD will do WHATEVER IT TAKES to bring you to a true knowledge of HIS HOLINESS and your SINFULNESS and that you will accept JESUS'S offer of redemption or you will burn in HELL!

 

[Travelsong]

Originally posted by Bro. James:
What is it which causes you to believe you are sinful? Such a notion is not found in Psyc. 101.

Selah,

Bro. James

I no longer believe in the foundational teaching of the Bible on sin. I am just granting your assertions for the sake of argument.

Care to answer my questions?

 

[Travelsong]

You better be careful or you are going to commit the one unpardonable sin and then you will NEVER be able to avoid the fires of HELL!

How do you know I haven't? Perhaps it's already too late?

 

[music4Him]

Look Travelsong~ God gave us all the choice to choose. We can choose death or life......we are asked to choose life, but thats totally up to each individual on this planet. Lots of people here have gave you great advice but all I can say its up to you to make a choice. Choose wisely~

Jesus loves you and came so that you could have life and life more abundantly (John 10:10) and as long as your still breathing its never too late.

BTW, if you could choose for your kids, what would you choose for them?

 

[hillclimber]

Look Travelsong, the only unpardonable sin today is unbelief, and as long as your cognizant, you can repent. As a long time friend of my wife says, "you just need another lap around Mt. Sinai." Or in other words, your story says you are obviously not saved but God is still working for you, and you are seemingly at the crossroads now and are in need of making "the" decision. If you don't, you won't receive the rest you are seeking. It's pretty clear you know enough of the Word to already know this and I'm bettin, you are not very genuine in this whole thing, but are having a bad day,week, or month, and your eyes are diverted from Him, and on yourself. Pretty common.

And yes it's about choice, not genetics.

 

[Travelsong]

Seeming is being and knowing is believing.

There has not been one single decent response to the objections I've raised. My time here is done. I thank you all for your patience and consideration.

 

[Benjamin]

Originally posted by Travelsong:
Seeming is being and knowing is believing.

There has not been one single decent response to the objections I've raised. My time here is done. I thank you all for your patience and consideration.

(Pro 2:1) My son, if thou wilt receive my words, and hide my commandments with thee;

(Pro 2:2) So that thou incline thine ear unto wisdom, and apply thine heart to understanding;

(Pro 2:3) Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, and liftest up thy voice for understanding;

(Pro 2:4) If thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as for hid treasures;

(Pro 2:5) Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God.

(Pro 2:6) For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding.

 

[Travelsong]

2 Thessalonians: 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

I must be one of those people god forces to believe in lies so that he can damn me.

 

[Michael52]

Originally posted by Travelsong:
I must be one of those people god forces to believe in lies so that he can damn me.

Hey Job --- er, I mean --- Travelsong, are we all invited to your "pity-party?"

No doubt all who have responded here, are in some ways "miserable comforters." Or, maybe, it just seems that way to you.

With slightly different doctrinal emphasis, I think everyone has made the point that they are not the One who can answer all your questions to your satisfaction, especially if you won't or can't hear them.

Somehow you need to listen to the God who is, rather than argue against the god you have "created." That one is always much easier for you to refute!

Again, we're praying for you and hoping there is a "whirlwind" forcasted in your (immediate) area.

 

[Travelsong]

Originally posted by Michael52:
Hey Job --- er, I mean --- Travelsong, are we all invited to your "pity-party?"

That wasn't self pity, it was sarcasm. I feel much better now than I ever have. I do not need a sky daddy, nor do I need fear of eternal hellfire.

The contradictions which I have highlighted are not small matters. They are big.

Simply saying "Well we don't have the answers but god still loves you" doesn't cut it for me. I have surrendered that kind of self delusion and there is no turning back.

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by Travelsong:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bro. James:
Sin is genetic indeed.

Can we locate the position of sin in our DNA? Perhaps even fix it? </font>[/QUOTE]What about the breath of life? There is more to life than material. Try measuring that.

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by Travelsong:
Simply saying "Well we don't have the answers but god still loves you" doesn't cut it for me. I have surrendered that kind of self delusion and there is no turning back.

So you do understand the magnitude of God? You do understand the finitenesss of the universe? Give us an explanation if you won't believe we don't have all the answers.

Earlier I asked you to explain love. Until that time you will have to settle for your ignorance. Is your ignorance delusional?

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by Travelsong:
At another time I had a mixture of beliefs in my attempt to reconcile the accountability of man with the sovereignty of god. Then I got honest with myself. None of it makes any sense.

What do you expect when you listen to others who do not study the Bible in light of its historical context? Some pastors work very hard at studying to arrive at the truth and to understand the text of the Bible.(Very few pastors really spend much time studying their Bible. Many just keep preaching what they have always heard. Some even ignore what they do find during their study if they are not comfortable with what they discover).

Again it is clear by your mixture of truth and lack of knowledge you have not studied the Bible well enough to get a very good picture of God. When you get down to business and start studying you will get answers. Your questions and statements remind me of the student who comes into a class and the professor gives an assignment and one of the students tell him that he will never use that outside of school. But the professor knows because he was in business for 30 years before teaching. But the student knows because he has been working for a few months.

What you often see as contradictions are simply ignorant statements not knowing or understanding the purpose and historical context of the scripture you refer to.

I have been down your road. Until you begin to study the historical context of scripture you will get no answers. Why read or listen to a commentary when the historical background is available? What you are doing is much like reading history from the point of view of an American.

Your questions stem from an inaccurate knowledge of the Bible.

You keep asking questions as if the answers lie in short clips of information. That simply is not always true. There are a number if excellent books available if you want to spend the time studying.