Romans 11

[glad4mercy]

Oh my God.

Yeah, that's all misinterpretation of Old Testament Prophecy.

They speak of Israel and sometimes the Blessings of The Current Day of The Lord, then The Day of Vengence of our God, that is separated by a comma.

Israel is very often, 'The Spiritual seed of Abraham".

Their transitions can be abrupt, between their references to The Day of Salvation (now) and Eternity.

Certainly, expressing New Testament Truths, in Old Testament language makes for Wonderful Revelations.

Returning the Mosaic System of Sacrifices, that were representational and symbolic emblems, to start with, back to a restored Mosaic System of Sacrifices, not so much.

No Worship there.

No insight.

No Blessing.

Just pure junk.

...

Those notions do not grasp their Present Day Application, as New Testament Truths, couched and expressed in Old Testament language.

No wonder a pot load of God-Hating and denying Jews are said to jump up and get a Jesus, "Just before He Returns".

Yep.

All off, in the Literature reading.

Oh my God.

Yeah, that's all misinterpretation of Old Testament Prophecy.

They speak of Israel and sometimes the Blessings of The Current Day of The Lord, then The Day of Vengence of our God, that is separated by a comma.

Israel is very often, 'The Spiritual seed of Abraham".

Their transitions can be abrupt, between their references to The Day of Salvation (now) and Eternity.

Certainly, expressing New Testament Truths, in Old Testament language makes for Wonderful Revelations.

Returning the Mosaic System of Sacrifices, that were representational and symbolic emblems, to start with, back to a restored Mosaic System of Sacrifices, not so much.

No Worship there.

No insight.

No Blessing.

Just pure junk.

...

Those notions do not grasp their Present Day Application, as New Testament Truths, couched and expressed in Old Testament language.

No wonder a pot load of God-Hating and denying Jews are said to jump up and get a Jesus, "Just before He Returns".

Yep.

All off, in the Literature reading.

you were once a God hater and God denier, were you not?

 

[Alan Gross]

read the book I linked by John Rice. Lots of scripture references in there

I know how they go about 'reading'.

 

[Alan Gross]

you were once a God hater and God denier, were you not?

The Remnant will be Saved.

 

[glad4mercy]

Sounds good.

Makes you think.

Then, wait a minute.

Yeah, read 'em.

It takes many readings, and STUDY.

and quite blaspheming the Jews. We are no better...

 

[glad4mercy]

The Remnant will be Saved.

yes and the remnant are who God says they are. God is not limited to your understanding and failure to rightly divide the Word of truth

 

[glad4mercy]

I know how they go about 'reading'.

Its interesting that I searched numerous good Christian sources and almost no one has your view on Romans 11:25. Bad sign for your interpretation

 

[Alan Gross]

zechariah 12

The chance for you to see anything in the Old Testament and no longer saying, "nothing applies to us, skip it all, it's going to not take place until a Disneyland Movie far off, in Galexy far, far off in the head"

is to give yourself the option of flushing any thought of all words with 'mill' in them, WHEN YOU ARE PRESENTED WITH EVIDENCE THAT THERE IS NO EVIDENCE FOR THEIR SUPPORT, in The Bible.

Cling to that extra-Biblical influence of Satan that is without God or Bible support and yeah, you'll be sucked into, "NONE OF IT MEANS ANYTHING TO US. GOD PUT IT THERE TO SAY" STAY TUNED & WAIT TILL YOU DIE FOR ANY OF IT TO APPLY TO YOU".

...

"we must interpret it eschatologically, covenantally, typologically, and ecclesiologically; as being a series of “veiled” and “mysterious” OT representations life under the New Covenant in the two-staged Kingdom that it creates.

" In short, it is through the NCH (New Covenant Hermenutic) , and through it alone, that Christians can attain what, in these last days, they so much need and desire: the full assurance of understanding (Colossians 2:2),

2. "That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;"


and the unity of the faith in the bond of peace (Ephesians 4:3, 13).

3" Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace."

13 "Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:"

Adapted from Jerusalem In That Day: Interpreting Zechariah 12-14 – Come Let Us Reason
with Scriptures added.

 

[Alan Gross]

It takes many readings, and STUDY.

and quite blaspheming the Jews. We are no better...

If I was lost and waiting for The Messiah and died or Jesus Comes Back I would go to Hell like the vast majority of Jews are going to that aren't the diminished Remnant.

You Worship them, if you want.

They have no Hope Promised to them, apart from the Remnant.

They are lost God-Hating worms that you need to send tracks to and pay for Missionaries to them.

You're like talking to black people about helping black slaves.

I've hunted all over the World for one.

What's up?

You defend the Jews and don't give a flip if they go to Hell.

Leave them lost, so Jesus can Come Talk to them, Personally?

Is that Satan's command to you?

 

[Alan Gross]

yes and the remnant are who God says they are. God is not limited to your understanding and failure to rightly divide the Word of truth

Did you try to, or try not to say anything?

Either way.

 

[Alan Gross]

Its interesting that I searched numerous good Christian sources and almost no one has your view on Romans 11:25. Bad sign for your interpretation

I don't take a back seat to any Bible Teacher, aside from Jesus, living or dead.

 

[Alan Gross]

I don't take a back seat to any Bible Teacher, aside from Jesus, living or dead.

Things I teach on here are going to have to be searched far and wide to find.

Sorry, Noone appreciates a word, hardly.

They are the very, very, uttermost tip of the actual Truths of God they represent.

 

[Danthemailman]

I often hear people in the NOSAS camp interpret Romans 11:17-22 to mean that saved individuals can lose their salvation. I would like to hear some arguments from the OSAS camp in rebuttal to the NOSAS interpretation of Romans 11:17-22.

 

[glad4mercy]

; "and that their future restoration to the faith is here foretold was the sentiment held"

Whoever the "Ed" is, put 'sentiments' out there.

A man saying something.

Other people saying it.

That doesn't mean the least little thing to me.

They have 'read the Prophets' and took something away from them about National Israel that is spoken of Spiritual Israel, is my guess.

If everyone on Earth does that, I'm not going to.

NO, he put the sentiments of earlier exegetes of scripure. Like Beza and others for example

 

[glad4mercy]

I often hear people in the NOSAS camp interpret Romans 11:17-22 to mean that saved individuals can lose their salvation. I would like to hear some arguments from the OSAS camp in rebuttal to the NOSAS interpretation of Romans 11:17-22.

I prefer 'Perseverance of the saints" instead of OSAS. I guess I would have to hear the argument before I replied to it, to see where they're coming from. I guess they're referring to branches being cut off

The chance for you to see anything in the Old Testament and no longer saying, "nothing applies to us, skip it all, it's going to not take place until a Disneyland Movie far off, in Galexy far, far off in the head"

is to give yourself the option of flushing any thought of all words with 'mill' in them, WHEN YOU ARE PRESENTED WITH EVIDENCE THAT THERE IS NO EVIDENCE FOR THEIR SUPPORT, in The Bible.

Cling to that extra-Biblical influence of Satan that is without God or Bible support and yeah, you'll be sucked into, "NONE OF IT MEANS ANYTHING TO US. GOD PUT IT THERE TO SAY" STAY TUNED & WAIT TILL YOU DIE FOR ANY OF IT TO APPLY TO YOU".

...

"we must interpret it eschatologically, covenantally, typologically, and ecclesiologically; as being a series of “veiled” and “mysterious” OT representations life under the New Covenant in the two-staged Kingdom that it creates.

" In short, it is through the NCH (New Covenant Hermenutic) , and through it alone, that Christians can attain what, in these last days, they so much need and desire: the full assurance of understanding (Colossians 2:2),

2. "That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;"


and the unity of the faith in the bond of peace (Ephesians 4:3, 13).

3" Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace."

13 "Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:"

Adapted from Jerusalem In That Day: Interpreting Zechariah 12-14 – Come Let Us Reason
with Scriptures added.

The first section of your post puts out a series of strawmen that do not at all reflect my position. The second section doesn't present ANY exegesis of ANY passage, so it does not support your argument whatsoever. eschatologically, covenantally, typologically, and ecclesiologically, I use all of these in my exegesis, and so did Calvin, Gill, Sproul, and the others who basically agreed with me

 

[glad4mercy]

If I was lost and waiting for The Messiah and died or Jesus Comes Back I would go to Hell like the vast majority of Jews are going to that aren't the diminished Remnant.

You Worship them, if you want.

They have no Hope Promised to them, apart from the Remnant.

They are lost God-Hating worms that you need to send tracks to and pay for Missionaries to them.

You're like talking to black people about helping black slaves.

I've hunted all over the World for one.

What's up?

You defend the Jews and don't give a flip if they go to Hell.

Leave them lost, so Jesus can Come Talk to them, Personally?

Is that Satan's command to you?

Strawman after strawman after strawman.

If I meet an unsaved Jew, I am going to share the Gospel to them just like anyone else.

Like I said earlier. The means of the conversion of the Jews, as taught by the scriptures, will be accomplished the same way anyone else's conversation takes place. By Grace through faith, ie believing the Gospel

Try to fairly represent my position. You are not accurately repeating my position.

 

[glad4mercy]

I don't take a back seat to any Bible Teacher, aside from Jesus, living or dead.

So your position is correct and everyone else's is wrong. Because NOBODY believes the fulness of the Gentiles was accomplished in two thousand years ago. No one that I know of at least.

 

[Danthemailman]

I prefer 'Perseverance of the saints" instead of OSAS. I guess I would have to hear the argument before I replied to it, to see where they're coming from. I guess they're referring to branches being cut off

I prefer "perseverance" or "preservation" of the saints as well. What puzzles me about the NOSAS view is that the Jews were in the olive tree to begin with because they were the "natural branches" and not because they were all saved.

 

[glad4mercy]

I prefer "perseverance" or "preservation" of the saints as well. What puzzles me about the NOSAS view is that the Jews were in the olive tree to begin with because they were the "natural branches" and not because they were all saved.

Interesting thought. I never thought of it that way before. Yet the gentiles are included in the Olive Tree due to faith/being saved.

The whole thing about Gentiles being added to the Olive tree is all about expansion of the Kingdom. The branches that are not bearing fruit are taken out and new ones grafted in, so that the tree might bear more fruit. But the blindness of Israel is clearly temporary, as stated by Romans 11:25

Did you read Calvin's commentary on Romans 11 that I posted earlier? Would you say that you agree with Calvin's understanding of the passage?

 

[Danthemailman]

Interesting thought. I never thought of it that way before. Yet the gentiles are included in the Olive Tree due to faith/being saved.

The whole thing about Gentiles being added to the Olive tree is all about expansion of the Kingdom. The branches that are not bearing fruit are taken out and new ones grafted in, so that the tree might bear more fruit. But the blindness of Israel is clearly temporary, as stated by Romans 11:25

Did you read Calvin's commentary on Romans 11 that I posted earlier? Would you say that you agree with Calvin's understanding of the passage?

I read through it and pretty much agreed with his understanding. This topic gets a little deep and I'm still working on processing the whole picture.

 

[37818]

I prefer "perseverance" or "preservation" of the saints as well. What puzzles me about the NOSAS view is that the Jews were in the olive tree to begin with because they were the "natural branches" and not because they were all saved.

I believe those whom God saves, God also keeps. So the olive tree is similar to Christ being the true vine. The difference being between being grafted in as opposed to being part of the original vine.
So it is my understanding of Christ being the true vine is eveyone starts out in the vine by reason Christ died for the whole world (1 John 2:2; 1 John 5:19). And when one comes of an age to believe, then that one must in one's life time come to faith in Christ in order to remain in the vine or else will be pruned off (John 15:6; 1 John 3:4-6; Romans 4:15; Romans 6:14).