Romans 9 and Calvinism

[canadyjd]

Is it in dispute that those justified were ungodly before being justified? Nope
Only crippled minds claim to be mind readers (knowing others are "embittered against the truth.")
Romans 5:1-6 demonstrates Calvinism is false...

We gained access by faith into this grace wherein we stand. Thus we were saved by grace "by reason of our faith being credited as righteousness by God, by which we gained access to God's saving grace!!

The context of Romans 5:1-5 is not saving grace but enabling grace. Notice Paul says we “stand” in that grace. In the very next verse he says they “glory in tribulations”.

Once we are saved, we gain access to God’s enabling grace that allows us to stand firm in the midst of persecution and tribulation.

Paul is not speaking of gaining access to God’s saving grace by faith, but that once we are saved, we have access to God’s enabling grace.

peace to you

 

[37818]

And no Calvinist will disagree with these verses. The non-Calvinist interpretation of them? That’s a whole other matter.

Re: John 3:16-18. Most all who read them would not have a Calvinist take on those verses. "Whosever" means anyone.

 

[MB]

MB, it is noted that no other person agrees with you. Therefore we can conclude you are wrong. But, you can continue to live on the wrong side of all other views as is your custom.

I know you would like to shut me up Austine but you forget Whether you agree or not is at your expense isn't i?. You choose to disagree and claim no one else agrees with me as if that makes any difference. I'm not hear to win friends I'm here to give you the real truth that can and does save men. The real Bible not some twisted up deception like you present.
MB

 

[AustinC]

I know you would like to shut me up Austine but you forget Whether you agree or not is at your expense isn't i?. You choose to disagree and claim no one else agrees with me as if that makes any difference. I'm not hear to win friends I'm here to give you the real truth that can and does save men. The real Bible not some twisted up deception like you present.
MB

MB, evidence shows that no one agrees with you in regard to your views on election. Since this is fact, it is also correct that you don't provide truth in this matter. Instead you provide a stubborn heart that will not be taught.

 

[MB]

Simply writing the same wrong view over and over again does not make your view correct. Ypu have been corrected by the vast majority here at the BB, yet you persist in bad theology. There is no value in correcting you again as you kick against God's word.

Just because the majority of members here are Calvinist does not make them right.No one but God can correct me. I'm here to correct you. To give you the truth instead of all that twisted philosophy you bring to the table. I feel sorry for you Austin because you believe in nonsense.
MB

 

[MB]

The context of Romans 5:1-5 is not saving grace but enabling grace. Notice Paul says we “stand” in that grace. In the very next verse he says they “glory in tribulations”.

Once we are saved, we gain access to God’s enabling grace that allows us to stand firm in the midst of persecution and tribulation.

Paul is not speaking of gaining access to God’s saving grace by faith, but that once we are saved, we have access to God’s enabling grace.

peace to you

You are grasping at straws.. What are tribulations in your opinion? If your faith has never been tried I can understand your confusion. It is glorious when our faith is tried because we know our selves our faith is the real thing..
MB

 

[AustinC]

Just because the majority of members here are Calvinist does not make them right.No one but God can correct me. I'm here to correct you. To give you the truth instead of all that twisted philosophy you bring to the table. I feel sorry for you Austin because you believe in nonsense.
MB

It appears that even God has chosen not to correct you since you reject what the Bible says and then call it Calvinism as your means of escape.

 

[canadyjd]

You are grasping at straws.. What are tribulations in your opinion? If your faith has never been tried I can understand your confusion. It is glorious when our faith is tried because we know our selves our faith is the real thing..
MB

I’m pointing out the context of the passage. The “grace” that is given to those with faith (already saved) is God’s enabling grace to stand firm in the faith in the midst of persecution and tribulation. It is a common theme in Paul’s letters and refers to suffering for faith in Jesus.

peace to you

 

[MB]

]

I’m pointing out the context of the passage. The “grace” that is given to those with faith (already saved) is God’s enabling grace to stand firm in the faith in the midst of persecution and tribulation. It is a common theme in Paul’s letters and refers to suffering for faith in Jesus.

peace to you

That is your point of view not what scripture says
MB

 

[MB]

It appears that even God has chosen not to correct you since you reject what the Bible says and then call it Calvinism as your means of escape.

You are the one who resist what scripture says. Your the one with the false philosophy. I've seen you do it many times.
MB

 

[MB]

I’m pointing out the context of the passage. The “grace” that is given to those with faith (already saved) is God’s enabling grace to stand firm in the faith in the midst of persecution and tribulation. It is a common theme in Paul’s letters and refers to suffering for faith in Jesus.

peace to you

Not true; You do not know what you are talking about.Just phony philosophy.
MB

 

[canadyjd]

Not true; You do not know what you are talking about.Just phony philosophy.
MB

The context is clear. The meaning is clear.

Saying “not true”, won’t change the context and meaning of the passage. Saying,”phony philosophy” won’t change the context and meaning of the passage. Neither comment furthers an intellectually honest discussion on the passage.

Obviously, we are going to disagree. I thank you for the conversation.

peace to you

 

[Dave G]

All,
My heart is saddened by the posts I've read from both sides in this thread.
Please, let us remember to be civil and to leave off fighting amongst each other.

If the Scriptures cannot be shared and views discussed in a more friendly and benign manner,
I vote that further threads such as these be locked when the comments start to get heated, and not after the insults have already gone on for far too long....
As they have gone on and on in this one.

Enough already, gentlemen.
Must you continue to hammer away at each other?

It's one thing to disagree and to tell one another why, and quite another to prolong the engagement with constant bickering that serves no purpose other than to increase the anger and offenses towards each other.

@Squire Robertsson,
Please consider locking this one soon...it's getting too far out-of-hand, IMO.

 

[AustinC]

You are the one who resist what scripture says. Your the one with the false philosophy. I've seen you do it many times.
MB

Yet, I have shared and reviewed many, many passages of scripture here woth you. This shows your claim is moot.
What I note is that you will not work through an entire passage. Dave has provided much opportunity for you to work through scripture and invites you to do so, yet you will not.
I invite you to work through passages of scripture so we understand the whole of scripture, but will you accept the invitation?

 

[AustinC]

All,
My heart is saddened by the posts I've read from both sides in this thread.
Please, let us remember to be civil and to leave off fighting amongst each other.

If the Scriptures cannot be shared and views discussed in a more friendly and benign manner,
I vote that further threads such as these be locked when the comments start to get heated, and not after the insults have already gone on for far too long....
As they have gone on and on in this one.

Enough already, gentlemen.
Must you continue to hammer away at each other?

It's one thing to disagree and to tell one another why, and quite another to prolong the engagement with constant bickering that serves no purpose other than to increase the anger and offenses towards each other.

@Squire Robertsson :
Please consider locking this one soon...it's getting too far out-of-hand, IMO.

Dave, there is a time to stand up and call a spade a spade. I respect you, but there are doctrines worth fighting for and there are times when godless theology must be revealed.

 

[Iconoclast]

"MB,

Just because the majority of members here are Calvinist does not make them right.

It does not make them wrong either. All the Cals can see multitudes who believe as they do. Can you show any that hold your God-dishonoring teachings or rather "ideas" that you attempt to foist on us?

No one but God can correct me.

Not everyone is given to welcome truth.

I'm here to correct you.

Maybe in your imagination, but we have seen no evidence of such a thing.

To give you the truth instead of all that twisted philosophy you bring to the table. I feel sorry for you Austin because you believe in nonsense.

Austin is pitching a shutout against you. Every post you have attempted has been a swing and a miss .

 

[Van]

Simply writing the same wrong view over and over again does not make your view correct. Ypu have been corrected by the vast majority here at the BB, yet you persist in bad theology. There is no value in correcting you again as you kick against God's word.

Yet another mindless taint so post from Calvinists... Calvinists accept the shoddy and rather unstudied views from the dark ages.

Romans 5:1-6 demonstrates Calvinism is false...

We gained access by faith into this grace wherein we stand. Thus we were saved by grace "by reason of our faith being credited as righteousness by God, by which we gained access to God's saving grace!!

Once again Calvinism struggles to understand that we access grace by reason of God accepting out faith, then first being accessed by God and given faith is precluded. So simple a child could understand it...

 

[Van]

The context of Romans 5:1-5 is not saving grace but enabling grace. Notice Paul says we “stand” in that grace. In the very next verse he says they “glory in tribulations”.

Once we are saved, we gain access to God’s enabling grace that allows us to stand firm in the midst of persecution and tribulation.

Paul is not speaking of gaining access to God’s saving grace by faith, but that once we are saved, we have access to God’s enabling grace.

peace to you

Sorry but your claim is false. Clearly Romans 5:2 is referring to entry into grace of salvation and justification.

 

[kyredneck]

@Squire Robertsson,
Please consider locking this one soon...it's getting too far out-of-hand, IMO.

Nah, it's no more unruly than any other C/A debate. Maybe just move it over to C/A Forum where it should've been posted to begin with, IMO.

 

[Marooncat79]

Re: John 3:16-18. Most all who read them would not have a Calvinist take on those verses. "Whosever" means anyone.

whosoever is not in the text