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Romans 9 and Calvinism
- Thread starter Guido
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It’s all who believe or are believing
37818
Well-Known Member
. . . For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. . . .
Whosoever is not in the Greek text
it is all who are believing or all of those believing
Not true I can read your the one with the trouble
No it isn't it says instead that everyone.
Joh 3:16 for God did so love the world, that His Son—the only begotten—He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-duringYLT
So what's the difference they both mean everyone not some select few.
MB
@MB we are saying the same thing on John 3:16. I think?
I never said that it referred to the elect
John 3:16 and Man's Ability to Choose God
37818
Well-Known Member
πας is the Greek word which was translated as "whosoever." How is that wrong? πας meaning "all." The Greek for "are" is not in the text. πας ο πιστευων "all who believe" "who believe" are the subject.
What happened to "gained access into this grace?" Your view rewrites the verse to say "after we were saved, then we gained access to perseverance. Not how it reads...
So you imaging things in scripture too. Why am I not surprized.How does everyone mean only the elect. Are all people elect or just you special privileged Calvinist?
MB
You obviously either cannot or did not read
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
No, Paul often refers to grace, “God’s unmerited favor”, in two ways. At times, He refers to the grace that leads to salvation. At times, he refers to God’s enabling grace that allows Christians to stand firm in persecution and tribulation.
In Romans 5, it’s the latter, as seen in context. He says we “gain access to this grace” and immediately says to “stand” and “glory in tribulation”.
He is speaking, in this context, of gaining access, through faith, to God’s enabling grace that allows the Christian to endure for the cause of Christ.
The person is already saved by grace through faith, and gains access to God’s enabling grace.
Thanks for the comments. I know we might disagree but I appreciate the civil discussion.
peace to you
How can we gain access to grace by faith, if your "gift of faith" is bestowed by grace? Either your tradition is wrong or scripture is wrong. The verse is saying we got into this grace by faith, not we benefited from this grace by faith... Your "Irresistible Grace" supposedly enables people to believe, whereas scripture says our faith in some way enables us to access "grace."
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Again, Paul is not referring to saving grace. He is referring to the enabling grace God gives to Christians that allows them to endure hardships.
Let’s look at the passage:
Romans 5:1-3 (1)“Therefore, being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ”
The action of justification is complete. The sinner is saved and has peace with God.
(2) “By whom, also, we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand and rejoice in hope of the glory of God”
Notice the word “also”. In addition to being justified (saved) and at peace with God we get something else. What? We get access to the grace that allows us to “stand” and “rejoice”.
(3) “And not only so, but we glory in tribulations….”
In addition to being justified (saved), and then having access to the grace that allows us to rejoice in hope, we get something else. This “enabling grace” allows us to glory in tribulations.
The theme of enabling grace is a regular theme in Paul’s letters. I hope you see the passsge in context now.
peace to you
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Yes but the poster believes in a gospel of another kind.
You are wrong tribulations are obviously secondary.
Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Rom 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
MB
Just like the others are adding to God's word. Can't you do or prove what you want with out this nonsense. You do know it is sin.
MB
MB reads what is on the page. He does not include the sin of adding to scripture. The reason you do this is because you can't prove your Calvinism.
MB
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