Romans has nothing to do with personal salvation

[Ran the Man]

If you read thru Romans without jumping around, you find that Paul is talking about God's switch from Israel as his chosen vessel to the Church. He specifically tells us why the gentiles are lost in Romans 2. Then he goes on to tell us why the Jews are lost. Then he tells us how God has the right to chose and use any vessel (jews or gentiles) that he pleases. Then in chapter 11, he even says God can switch back and use the Jews if the Gentiles get too proud.
The whole thing has nothing to do with personal salvation. That is placing western individualism upon the text.
It is about God using his new chosen vessel, with the gentiles being those whom he forknew (pre planned or pre envisioned) to use when the time of his first vessel was completed.

 

[Reformed1689]

If you read thru Romans without jumping around, you find that Paul is talking about God's switch from Israel as his chosen vessel to the Church. He specifically tells us why the gentiles are lost in Romans 2. Then he goes on to tell us why the Jews are lost. Then he tells us how God has the right to chose and use any vessel (jews or gentiles) that he pleases. Then in chapter 11, he even says God can switch back and use the Jews if the Gentiles get too proud.
The whole thing has nothing to do with personal salvation. That is placing western individualism upon the text.
It is about God using his new chosen vessel, with the gentiles being those whom he forknew (pre planned or pre envisioned) to use when the time of his first vessel was completed.

You can't be serious...

 

[Ran the Man]

You can't be serious...

Why can't I be serious? I can be anything I want to, since I believe in freewill.

 

[Reformed1689]

Why can't I be serious? I can be anything I want to, since I believe in freewill.

You seem to be trolling...

 

[MartyF]

You seem to be trolling...

I could see how one could accuse him of that in the other posts, but this one is far from trolling. Can you in any way walk us through your accusation to explain why this post is trolling?

Or are you trolling?

Have you ever read Roman's in one sitting?

This is the post of Ran the Man's which I most agree with. Calvinists tend to read the bible verse by verse and can't see the forest for all the trees.

It is about God using his new chosen vessel, with the gentiles being those whom he forknew (pre planned or pre envisioned) to use when the time of his first vessel was completed.

The above is what I disagree with. It reeks of Arminianism.

 

[Reformed1689]

I could see how one could accuse him of that in the other posts, but this one is far from trolling. Can you in any way walk us through your accusation to explain why this post is trolling?

Sure, given other threads when in answer to a question you say "I can be anything I want to, since I believe in freewill." That's classic trolling. It has nothing to do with the topic or the question.

Have you ever read Roman's in one sitting?

Many times.

Calvinists tend to read the bible verse by verse and can't see the forest for all the trees.

I disagree with this assertion.

 

[MartyF]

Sure, given other threads when in answer to a question you say "I can be anything I want to, since I believe in freewill." That's classic trolling. It has nothing to do with the topic or the question.

"Trolling consists of provoking large volumes of responses by posting absurdities, deliberately offensive insults, etc."

What he has done here in this thread is not even close to that. You're redefining what trolling is to try to defend an argument.

 

[Reformed1689]

What he has done here in this thread is not even close to that. You're redefining what trolling is to try to defend an argument.

No, he continued the large volume from another thread. But honestly, you are derailing this thread at this point. If you would like to take it up further feel free to PM me.

 

[Rob_BW]

So maybe it's not trolling, but it's definitely spamming. If our new resident open theist wanted to discuss some things, fine. But cluttering up the board with thread after thread...

 

[Ran the Man]

I could see how one could accuse him of that in the other posts, but this one is far from trolling. Can you in any way walk us through your accusation to explain why this post is trolling?

Or are you trolling?

Have you ever read Roman's in one sitting?

This is the post of Ran the Man's which I most agree with. Calvinists tend to read the bible verse by verse and can't see the forest for all the trees.



The above is what I disagree with. It reeks of Arminianism.

Trolling accusations are a snowflake way of dismissing someone or their argument. It exists primarily on politically correctness infected forums. Let's make this site a safe space from it, shall we?

 

[MartyF]

So maybe it's not trolling, but it's definitely spamming. If our new resident open theist wanted to discuss some things, fine. But cluttering up the board with thread after thread...

I didn't want to agree with this. But I have to. He's up to 6 threads now? In three days?

I don't know why he is claiming Open Theism when he hasn't posted anything which sounds like it.

 

[Salty]

lets see,
Romans tells us that we are sinners, that the penalty is death, that Christ died for us, that if we repent - we will be saved.

Sounds like a map for personal salvation!

 

[Ran the Man]

lets see,
Romans tells us that we are sinners, that the penalty is death, that Christ died for us, that if we repent - we will be saved.

Sounds like a map for personal salvation!

It only looks that way because we tend to read everything they the lens of western individualism.

 

[tyndale1946]

Why can't I be serious? I can be anything I want to, since I believe in freewill.

Believe it all you want... Some people believe in UFO's too but that doesn't make it so... Brother Glen

Romans 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

I predict Ran The Man maybe run out of here pretty soon

 

[Ran the Man]

Believe it all you want... I believe the moon is made out of cheese too but that doesn't make it so... Brother Glen

Romans 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

I predict Ran The Man maybe run out of here pretty soon

If you run me out it says more about you than me.
The verses you quoted are talking about God's right to use whatever vessel he chooses, in this case, the Gentiles in place of the Jews.

 

[prophecy70]

If you run me out it says more about you than me.
The verses you quoted are talking about God's right to use whatever vessel he chooses, in this case, the Gentiles in place of the Jews.

Which 70s rock band helped you exegete this passage?

 

[Yeshua1]

If you read thru Romans without jumping around, you find that Paul is talking about God's switch from Israel as his chosen vessel to the Church. He specifically tells us why the gentiles are lost in Romans 2. Then he goes on to tell us why the Jews are lost. Then he tells us how God has the right to chose and use any vessel (jews or gentiles) that he pleases. Then in chapter 11, he even says God can switch back and use the Jews if the Gentiles get too proud.
The whole thing has nothing to do with personal salvation. That is placing western individualism upon the text.
It is about God using his new chosen vessel, with the gentiles being those whom he forknew (pre planned or pre envisioned) to use when the time of his first vessel was completed.

Are you advocating that Calvin/Luther/Hodgh/Berkhof/Erickison/Grudem /Sproul et all had this wrong, and NT Wright has it right?

 

[Ran the Man]

Are you advocating that Calvin/Luther/Hodgh/Berkhof/Erickison/Grudem /Sproul et all had this wrong, and NT Wright has it right?

NT Wright is another dead white guy?

 

[prophecy70]

NT Wright is another dead white guy?

You don't know who NT Wright is?

 

[Ran the Man]

You don't know who NT Wright is?

Uh, should I?