Salvation and sin

[Brother Bob]

Well, since you seem to know the whole list, and the rest of the board is guessing at it, how about sharing with us? Wouldn't that fall under the realm of "teaching?"

You have the list, God is not partial and he gave it to all men. I don't think he left you out if you are of sound mind.

How did you ever repent, not knowing what to repent of??

I have never even had a non-Christian ask me what is sin. It seems that drunks, know the commandments of God, better than you do.

BBob,

 

[rbell]

You have the list, God is not partial and he gave it to all men. I don't think he left you out if you are of sound mind.

How did you ever repent, not knowing what to repent of??

I have never even had a non-Christian ask me what is sin. It seems that drunks, know the commandments of God, better than you do.

BBob,

Brother Bob,

I know what sins are. I'm just asking you for a list of what you call "sins unto death;" what I call "sins that a Christian couldn't possibly couldn't commit."

You've named some of the ten commandments--and stressed the sins of rape, pedophilia, and adultery. What others?

I'm asking what I believe to be legitimate questions, and you're firing back with insults and attacks. I don't think there's any need for that. If you don't want to answer me, just tell me to leave you alone, and I will do so. Let's be mature.

 

[Brother Bob]

Brother Bob,

I know what sins are. I'm just asking you for a list of what you call "sins unto death;" what I call "sins that a Christian couldn't possibly couldn't commit."

You've named some of the ten commandments--and stressed the sins of rape, pedophilia, and adultery. What others?

I'm asking what I believe to be legitimate questions, and you're firing back with insults and attacks. I don't think there's any need for that. If you don't want to answer me, just tell me to leave you alone, and I will do so. Let's be mature.

Lets be mature............, now that is funny.

God takes care of giving you the list, so I do not have to for I might miss some, but God will make sure you have them all.

Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Mat 7:24 ¶ Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

You seem to be saying that you are one of these "armchair Christians", who just lay back and do nothing. You don't believe there are any works in being a Christian, such as a pure and undefiled religeon, is to visit the widows and the orphans in their afflictions, and to keep yourself unspotted from the world.

If you lie, you will certainly spot yourself with the world.

If you don't have the mind to know what sin is, then don't worry about it, for you will only answer for what you know.

[Personal attack against a brother in Christ's ministry removed.]



BBob,

 

[rbell]

Brother Bob,

I'm asking you again: Please stop with the personal attacks on me and my ministry. Thank you.

EDIT: I'm taking a break, guys. Bye!

 

[Brother Bob]

Brother Bob,

I'm asking you again: Please stop with the personal attacks on me and my ministry. Thank you.

oh boy, you call me a liar time after time, what you think you are doing to my ministry? cute

[Removal of Personal Attack against a brother in Christ's ministry.]



BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

So...since any sin sends us to hell (because sin separates us from a holy God, then all sins are sins unto death? I'm confused...


We keep coming back to child rape and adultery...but that has not been the question asked repeatedly, because that's not where most of us live. What about the person who is fearful? According to the same Scriptures you've used in the past, and by your definition, they also could not possibly be saved. Do you want to hold that line as well? If you do, what does that bode for most of us?



.

1169
deiloV
deilos
di-los'
from deos (dread); timid, i.e. (by implication) faithless:--fearful.


Original Greek, it could be faithless instead of fearful.

BBob,

 

[charles_creech78]

1jo 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
1jo 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

1jo 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
1jo 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

1jo 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

1jo 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

1jo 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

1jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

1jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1jo 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

1jo 3:11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.

1jo 3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

1jo 3:13 Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.

1jo 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
1jo 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

1jo 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

1jo 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

1jo 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

1jo 3:19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.

1jo 3:20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.

1jo 3:21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.
1jo 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

1jo 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

1jo 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

 

[charles_creech78]

1jo 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

 

[tinytim]

You have to make up stuff to condemn those who try and live the way God wants them to live. You now are comparing us with the Pharisees. No wonder you admit that you lie.

To believe that you could be in the act of raping a 4 year girl, when the Lord comes and still go to Heaven is what is garbage. You said all sin is the same, so you believe you and your congregation can be drunkards, rapists, adulterers, liars, killers "any sin known unto mankind" and Jesus come and find you so, and still go to Heaven. That is what is garbage. This is what you have said, I am only repeating it.

I have said over and over, that we sin, but not sins unto perdition, for Paul said we are not of them who draw back unto perdition. I wonder how you will escape the commandment "thou shalt not lie". The whole duty of man is to fear God and keep his commandments.
You believe the Christians are excluded from that scripture to mankind. In other words, John the Baptist should of told the old King to be saved, then it would be alright to have his brother phillip's wife. It would of saved him losing his head. Shame old John didn't have you to help him out so he didn't lose his head.

This is a out and out lie. We have never stated such, we know we are sinners, but not sin unto perdition of which Paul said that "we are not of them who draw back unto perdition".


Don't forget to set your house in order before the Lord comes.

BBob,

You sir just lied... I challenge you to find where I said all sin is the same... I challenge you to find where I made up stuff...
You are the one that said you cannot commit Adultery, or the other things the Pharisee said in the passage above... You have to admit you sound like a Pharisee claiming it is impossible for you to sin big sins...


I am the one that gave the illustration that there may be differing degrees of sin.. .but all sin falls short of the perfection of God.
I do not believe that all sins are the same... there will differing degrees of punishment for the lost because some sins are not as bad as others... but all sins fall short of the perfection of God.
I used the bow and arrow scenario.

I have never discussed the scenario of raping a 4 yr old. I have not even commented on that.

SO, since I just proved that you, sir just lied on me, are you going to say that lying is now not a sin unto perdition? Can you change your rules so that they satisfy you.

I will be awaiting an apology from you for lying (bearing false witness, one of the big ones) on me.

Go ahead, show me where I have said all sins are equal...
Unless I said it, you lied when you said I did....

That could be dangerous for your theology...

 

[charles_creech78]

1jo 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

 

[tinytim]

1jo 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Yes, and people that claim that the blood of Christ is not sufficient to cleanse us from past, present, and future sin is preaching a false doctrine.

You and your types are spitting in the face of Christ.

He shed his blood to save us. To say that you have to repent over and over again, ....

OH NEVERMIND>.. some just don't have the capacity to understand proper Christian theology... Old traditions are blinding them from God's word...

I will tell you this, this thread, and the other one, and the one where it was shown that th ORBs think footwashing is an ordinance has convinced me of something I have never thought of before...

IF a person from the denomination of Old Regular Baptists were to want to join our church, I would recommend they be baptized again, because they are defineatly not the same faith and order that we are...

To claim sinless perfection after salvation (a false doctrine of works), and to add to the 2 ordinances of Communion and Baptism a third ordinances, means they are not of like faith and order...

Or at least I would examine their beliefs closer, and make sure they understand salvation, and the Baptist distinctives.

 

[charles_creech78]

Yes, and people that claim that the blood of Christ is not sufficient to cleanse us from past, present, and future sin is preaching a false doctrine.

You and your types are spitting in the face of Christ.

He shed his blood to save us. To say that you have to repent over and over again, ....

OH NEVERMIND>.. some just don't have the capacity to understand proper Christian theology... Old traditions are blinding them from God's word...

I will tell you this, this thread, and the other one, and the one where it was shown that th ORBs think footwashing is an ordinance has convinced me of something I have never thought of before...

IF a person from the denomination of Old Regular Baptists were to want to join our church, I would recommend they be baptized again, because they are defineatly not the same faith and order that we are...

To claim sinless perfection after salvation (a false doctrine of works), and to add to the 2 ordinances of Communion and Baptism a third ordinances, means they are not of like faith and order...

Or at least I would examine their beliefs closer, and make sure they understand salvation, and the Baptist distinctives.

Ok explain to me what he ment in 1johnchapter 3. All of what i posted. Who was he talking to about when he said he cannot commit sin. Who was he talking to.

 

[tinytim]

1169
deiloV
deilos
di-los'
from deos (dread); timid, i.e. (by implication) faithless:--fearful.


Original Greek, it could be faithless instead of fearful.

BBob,

When a person worries they are being faithless.. this is what it is talking about....

Bob, have you ever worried about anything since you were saved?

 

[Brother Bob]

Yes, and people that claim that the blood of Christ is not sufficient to cleanse us from past, present, and future sin is preaching a false doctrine.

.

Again you falsely accuse, we stated that feetwashing is a part of the ordinance of communion, not a new ordinance.

You are preaching that we must be sinners just like the world to be a Christian and want us to be like you, no thanks.

Also, you are questioning our salvation, which is against the rules of BB.

BBob,

 

[tinytim]

Ok explain to me what he ment in 1johnchapter 3. All of what i posted. Who was he talking to about when he said he cannot commit sin. Who was he talking to.

When you are saved, your spirit is saved.. The Holy Spirit comes in, and you are cleansed on the inside.. That inward man CANNOT sin... Because the Holy Spirit is now there.

The Bible also says to work OUT our salvation... That means take what is on the inside, and work it out...

When you accept Christ as your savior, your whole being did not get saved... just your soul.... you body has to wait to be saved.

Salvation comes in three stages...

1) Justification... When you were saved, God declared you justified for all time upon your faith in the finished work, notice I said "FINISHED" work of calvary. The Holy Spirit moved in, and cleaned your soul.. your soul is perfect... It is saved... but it still wars with our sinful flesh... hence what Paul meant when he said that what he would do, he doesn't and vice versa. When God looks at you, he sees Christ's righteousness

2) Sanctification... God sets you apart, declares you are justified, and then begins transforming you into the image of Christ... When mankind was created we had the image of God.. when we fell the image was marred.. (some think destroyed)... But when we accept Jesus as savior, we are daily changed into the image of Christ (God)... and this process will continue until the day we die... This is what it means to work OUT our salvation... What is on the inside is to come out, and we are to Grow in Christ.

3) Glorification.... Perfect, sinless, completely holy. This occurs at the Resurrection... Christ came to save both our soul and body... our soul is saved now.. IT cannot sin. But our body is not saved.. but one day will be... at the resurrection. But we are in our body.. so we still have the capacity to sin....

If a person can sin and feel comfortable with it, something is wrong.
I don't beleive a saved person can habitually sin, and never feel condemned.

Let's say you lust after a woman after you are saved...(same as adultery according to Jesus)
The Holy Spirit in you cannot partake in the sin your body is partaking in.. thus you feel guilt... The Holy Spirit is pulling you one way, your body is pulling the other... What Paul calls the warfare of the flesh...
You give into the flesh, and lust... your body may enjoy it, but your soul can't stand it.. and there is a conflict there... it will be there until you repent.

BUT if there is no conflict within you, and you don't feel guilty, that means the Holy Spirit is not there... and if He is not present in your heart, you cannot be saved.

I believe the closer you get to God, the more sin you will see in your life.
You will soon see that every minute you sin.
Anytime you put your wants over God's wants you sin. How many times today did you please your flesh...

Martin Luther struggled with this so much that he beat his body hoping for Salvation... then he found the passage that says we are saved by faith alone. NOT of works... NOT by stopping sin... NOT by perfect living, but by faith.

Paul says Grace through faith..
Then afterwards, the works will show up.

But just because a person falls after salvation doesn't mean they were never saved...
But if a person can live that lifestyle without any condemnation from the Holy Spirit within.. they are not saved.

But here is the thing... You don't know what struggles go on in me... I don't know what struggles go on in you.. That is why we cannot judge the salvation of others...

And Salvation comes through Christ, not church membership... That is a RC theology that salvation comes through belonging to the church.

I hope this clears up some confusion.

 

[Brother Bob]

When you are saved, your spirit is saved.. The Holy Spirit comes in, and you are cleansed on the inside.. That inward man CANNOT sin... Because the Holy Spirit is now there.

The Bible also says to work OUT our salvation... That means take what is on the inside, and work it out...

When you accept Christ as your savior, your whole being did not get saved... just your soul.... you body has to wait to be saved.

Salvation comes in three stages...

1) Justification... When you were saved, God declared you justified for all time upon your faith in the finished work, notice I said "FINISHED" work of calvary. The Holy Spirit moved in, and cleaned your soul.. your soul is perfect... It is saved... but it still wars with our sinful flesh... hence what Paul meant when he said that what he would do, he doesn't and vice versa. When God looks at you, he sees Christ's righteousness

2) Sanctification... God sets you apart, declares you are justified, and then begins transforming you into the image of Christ... When mankind was created we had the image of God.. when we fell the image was marred.. (some think destroyed)... But when we accept Jesus as savior, we are daily changed into the image of Christ (God)... and this process will continue until the day we die... This is what it means to work OUT our salvation... What is on the inside is to come out, and we are to Grow in Christ.

3) Glorification.... Perfect, sinless, completely holy. This occurs at the Resurrection... Christ came to save both our soul and body... our soul is saved now.. IT cannot sin. But our body is not saved.. but one day will be... at the resurrection. But we are in our body.. so we still have the capacity to sin....

If a person can sin and feel comfortable with it, something is wrong.
I don't beleive a saved person can habitually sin, and never feel condemned.

Let's say you lust after a woman after you are saved...(same as adultery according to Jesus)
The Holy Spirit in you cannot partake in the sin your body is partaking in.. thus you feel guilt... The Holy Spirit is pulling you one way, your body is pulling the other... What Paul calls the warfare of the flesh...
You give into the flesh, and lust... your body may enjoy it, but your soul can't stand it.. and there is a conflict there... it will be there until you repent.

BUT if there is no conflict within you, and you don't feel guilty, that means the Holy Spirit is not there... and if He is not present in your heart, you cannot be saved.

I believe the closer you get to God, the more sin you will see in your life.
You will soon see that every minute you sin.
Anytime you put your wants over God's wants you sin. How many times today did you please your flesh...

Martin Luther struggled with this so much that he beat his body hoping for Salvation... then he found the passage that says we are saved by faith alone. NOT of works... NOT by stopping sin... NOT by perfect living, but by faith.

Paul says Grace through faith..
Then afterwards, the works will show up.

But just because a person falls after salvation doesn't mean they were never saved...
But if a person can live that lifestyle without any condemnation from the Holy Spirit within.. they are not saved.

But here is the thing... You don't know what struggles go on in me... I don't know what struggles go on in you.. That is why we cannot judge the salvation of others...

And Salvation comes through Christ, not church membership... That is a RC theology that salvation comes through belonging to the church.

I hope this clears up some confusion.

And just where do you leave this Holy Spirit while you engage in adultery??

BBob

 

[tinytim]

Again you falsely accuse, we stated that feetwashing is a part of the ordinance of communion, not a new ordinance.

You are preaching that we must be sinners just like the world to be a Christian and want us to be like you, no thanks.

Also, you are questioning our salvation, which is against the rules of BB.

BBob,

I am not questioning your salvation.. I truly believe you, charles and others are saved... from your testimony...

What I am questioning is your UNDERSTANDING of your salvation.
And I wouldn't want to accept a person into our congregation that would mislead others concerning thier salvation...

I will try to find where you called feetwashing an ordinance and provide the link... If you don't think it is, then I apologize, but If I provide the link, you apologize for misrepresenting me.

 

[Brother Bob]

I am not questioning your salvation.. I truly believe you, charles and others are saved... from your testimony...

What I am questioning is your UNDERSTANDING of your salvation.
And I wouldn't want to accept a person into our congregation that would mislead others concerning thier salvation...

I will try to find where you called feetwashing an ordinance and provide the link... If you don't think it is, then I apologize, but If I provide the link, you apologize for misrepresenting me.

If the feetwashing is included in the ordinance of communion, then it also is that same ordinance.

What does the NMC stand for? When were you all established?

BBob,

 

[tinytim]

Brother Bob, on this thread.. http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=7925&page=39 in describing what the Old regulars believe you post a creed of the ORB... in that Creed it says...

10th: We believe that feet washing is an ordinance of Jesus Christ and ought to be observed and kept up by His Church until His Second Coming.



NOw if the ORB believe that, they are not the same faith and order as we are...
For the Baptist distinctives are there are only 2 ordinances... That is just as important as the other distinctives... church autonomy, seperation of church and state...Etc...

IF you add a third ordinance, your organization should quit calling itself Baptist.
But this is just my opinion.

But as a pastor of a church that holds to the Baptist distinctives, we would require rebaptism if wanting to join with us in membership...

Especially now that I know the ORBs teach a works based salvation, one in which you must continually repent of not go to Heaven....

 

[tinytim]

If the feetwashing is included in the ordinance of communion, then it also is that same ordinance.

What does the NMC stand for? When were you all established?

BBob,

1883.. we are having our 125th anniversary this yr...
And reading our minutes from that yr, we were the first "General Baptist" church in this area....

I agree, if you include it as an element of communion, it is not a seperate ordinance, but you can see from my post above this, you at one time posted a reference to a document claiming it is an ordinance.