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Scripture the Greatest Gift to Mankind,pt.2

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InTheLight

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This whole scenario you are putting forth is question begging.

Essentially you are saying without the Bible we wouldn't have the Bible to describe God.

As has been pointed out, simply having the Bible does not mean that everyone will hold it in reverence as the sole written authority on the nature of God. When we claim the Bible tells us of God, people don't need to accept it.
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
No bible right?
Who is God?
What is moral law?
If no scripture we are unsaved pagans
The responses that you're offering based on scripture but discussing what if there was no scripture how would you make these responses how would you know there is a God or his character how would you know if God is holy or not holy you would have no idea whatsoever just think of a person in the middle of the rain forest yeah he can look up like it says in Romans 1 and he can know you know that the heavens declare there's a God or he wouldn't know anything about him though. So what religions were religions do is make up their own idea of who God is what God requires and what works and rituals are they at 2 satisfyer appease the gods or whatever it is that they believe that's why in Romans one right after it says men are without excuse it goes on to explain that God gave them over to a reprobate mind because they turned from a true knowledge of God when it was a true knowledge of God to be hot and so what's left is religion where they invent their own religion and their own carnal philosophy that's the whole point of this thread.
Romans 1:20-21
For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

Better question - what good is Scripture if we do not believe passages like Romans 1:20-21 is true?
 

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
This whole scenario you are putting forth is question begging.

Essentially you are saying without the Bible we wouldn't have the Bible to describe God.

As has been pointed out, simply having the Bible does not mean that everyone will hold it in reverence as the sole written authority on the nature of God. When we claim the Bible tells us of God, people don't need to accept it.
No...without special revelation from God we would have no idea who He is. We would not have a proper understanding of the world we live in.
Who would define right and wrong? Cannibals? Sodomites?
 

JonShaff

Fellow Servant
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No...without special revelation from God we would have no idea who He is. We would not have a proper understanding of the world we live in.
Who would define right and wrong? Cannibals? Sodomites?
You've created a red herring or avoiding the issue fallacy--No one disagrees that the Scriptures are an incredibly gracious gift from Our Father. And no one is disagreeing that we absolutely need it in order to have specific knowledge of God. You act as if that is what this thread is about. You're the OP. The Gospel would have spread--just like some form of God's revelation did from Abraham to Moses--had we only had word of mouth communication--just like it DID.

We agree--Scripture is God's special revelation.

And Christ is God's Perfect Revelation.
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
It amazes me that this thread has continued to a part 2. Why would anyone seriously contemplate whether God's love in giving His only Son is not as great as Scripture? Even if we did not know we should be able to read in our Bible what is the greatest! Even if we did not know, we should read in our Bibles where people know of sin and even God without Scripture.

The OP is concerning.
 

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
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The Catholics taught me that... remember the sign of the cross; in the name of the father, the son, the Holy Ghost. Catholic caticism
Let's see...

An over-the-road truck driver, self-taught on theology, knows more about the Bible than people with a bachelor's degree, plus a postgraduate education in theology, pastoral studies, and Bible studies.

Not saying I have this type of education but I know several people you've interacted with in the past have it and right here in this thread DO have this type of education, yet they do not understand. But you do.
So you are assuming that because he drives a truck that he doesn’t have an edu.... how arrogant is that?
 

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
RighteousnessTemperance&

And precisely how do you propose it should be done, that is, establishing to the satisfaction of unbelievers that the Bible is the word of God?[/QUOTE]

Thank you for an honest response and a sincere question. We are not responsible for the satisfaction of unsaved people. We do strive to get a positive result, however.
We engage in conversation, the unsaved person wants to know why you are presenting the gospel, or why you think what you are saying to him is correct for him and his family.
1} God is Holy
2] God has had 40 men write the scripture over a 1600 yr time span
3] God as the creator is the only ONE who can define right from wrong.
4] As Creator God has made known His design to man.
5] Men have sinned and died in Adam, spiritual death , followed by Physical death.
6] as part of man's rebellion he has turned from God and his Holy law.
7] God has given men over to sin Rom1-3
8 ] All men will be judged by God's Holy law, They would have to be sinless and perfect, which no descendent of Adam can be, all are guilty.
9] God sent His word in many ways and by having it written.
10] God Himself came to earth as the full final revelation...In Son. Heb1
11] he was made under the lawGal 4, to redeem them that were under the law.
12] Jesus said His word will judge men at the last day;
jn12:
46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.47 And if any man hear my words,
and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

earlier jesus said this; jn8:
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.


Something along these lines, each conversation has it's own twists and turns, adapt which other scriptures to add or take into account. I try and leave the person with no hope outside of Jesus

Once the word is established, then you can hold out the living hope of the gospel That Jesus in His substitutionary atonement has satisfied the broken law of God and been punished as our Divine substitute.
His perfect obedience is put to the account to everyone believing, the Love of God can only be known to be In Christ. To remain outside of Christ is to remain outside of the love and under the wrath of God.
 

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
One does not have to be saved to be on the Baptist Board. One only has to profess to be a Christian and to post on the Baptist section to be a Baptist. (We have no way of determining if a member is saved).
Which is evident via bring in Catholics and other denom! But shouldn’t one be regenerated in order to post on Baptist portions of the form? After all, are they not to profess that in order to be allowed to post here in the first place?
 

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
The fact that some attempt to pervert the OP. trying to twist it to say something it does not, is similar to Satan twisting scripture when he sought out Jesus

6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

Here is what it actually said;
11 For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.

12 They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone.
Satan left this out changing the intent of the verse. We should not follow Satan.
 

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
This whole scenario you are putting forth is question begging.

Essentially you are saying without the Bible we wouldn't have the Bible to describe God.

As has been pointed out, simply having the Bible does not mean that everyone will hold it in reverence as the sole written authority on the nature of God. When we claim the Bible tells us of God, people don't need to accept it.
Nor understand it... so the conclusion is you must be a student of the Bible to be saved... ie, the primacy of the Bible. I for one disagree. How can someone in a foreign country w/o Bible literacy be saved? How do people with physical and/or mental disabilities get saved? God is far bigger than that brothers!
 

InTheLight

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The fact that some attempt to pervert the OP. trying to twist it to say something it does not, is similar to Satan twisting scripture when he sought out Jesus

Yes, it is *exactly* like that. Give it a rest...



Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
 

Iconoclast

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Nor understand it... so the conclusion is you must be a student of the Bible to be saved... ie, the primacy of the Bible. I for one disagree. How can someone in a foreign country w/o Bible literacy be saved? How do people with physical and/or mental disabilities get saved? God is far bigger than that brothers!
In the 1st thread I mentioned that a little bit I forget what post
 

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
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Yes, it is *exactly* like that. Give it a rest...



Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
You know I TLI just play the hand dealt I'd look at the situation and I give an accurate observation of what I see. You had a chance to call you declined it so now you have always questions I could easily be answered a one phone call but you go on and on like this you the make the call or stop with these questions
 

InTheLight

Well-Known Member
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You know I TLI just play the hand dealt I'd look at the situation and I give an accurate observation of what I see. You had a chance to call you declined it so now you have always questions I could easily be answered a one phone call but you go on and on like this you the make the call or stop with these questions
If only I would have phoned Iconoclast! I could have achieved Enlightenment!

Can we close this thread now, mods?

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
 

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
If only I would have phoned Iconoclast! I could have achieved Enlightenment!

Can we close this thread now, mods?

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
The thread can stay open but you are dismissed seeing you have nothing really to add to the thread you just doing usual Drive By Post taking little cheap shots but if you have anything of substance feel free to enter back yet thank you
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
Which is evident via bring in Catholics and other denom! But shouldn’t one be regenerated in order to post on Baptist portions of the form? After all, are they not to profess that in order to be allowed to post here in the first place?
Yes, but we take people at their word. Dealing with folks here for almost 20 years I have come to suspect some believe they are saved when they are not. One member even gave that testimony.

We look at how people treat one another and make a guess. But we do not put a voice to that guess as that would be a violation of the rules (and rightly so).
 

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
You've created a red herring or avoiding the issue fallacy--No one disagrees that the Scriptures are an incredibly gracious gift from Our Father. And no one is disagreeing that we absolutely need it in order to have specific knowledge of God. You act as if that is what this thread is about. You're the OP. The Gospel would have spread--just like some form of God's revelation did from Abraham to Moses--had we only had word of mouth communication--just like it DID.

We agree--Scripture is God's special revelation.

And Christ is God's Perfect Revelation.
Well I don't know about you were avoiding the issue fallacy and all that philosophical mumbo-jumbo but I noticed you slowly inching your way towards the position of the Opie which I take as a positive sign.
 
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